Canadian music in the U.S.

[Cyril Sneer]

It certainly is the fault of American media. American media, as I've said, has a much greater reach than Canadian media. Internationally, people are paying attention to make makes it big in the US, whether its Hollywood, or MTV (which has its own stations in other countries that play a big proportion of american music), or the radio. And since Billboard charts are based on sales, American, with its greater population makes a much bigger dent in it than us, this also raises attention elsewhere.

My main argument is that Canadian music is just is good as American music, and would have got as much attention if American media gave it a chance. See Gemchakra's post - if heard, people will like it, good music has a lot of reach. But for whatever reason, Canadian music never got that chance to be heard.

As for the Smashing Pumpkins, i was only referring to their latest album, their earlier stuff was big everywhere. Their new album would be big everywhere too, if played. Music programming decisions, mostly from executives at Clear Channel (who own most major American radio stations) choose a very limited and mostly national playlist. I agree with the comment though that one big hit can cross borders. But it should be at least 3 or 4 for some of these artists, like Tom Cochrane, who's music was good enough.

[GLASSJAW]

Some of you guys are really stuck in the era your favourite bands came from

In 2013, Kim Mitchell is pretty much on par with Duran Duran, don't worry.

[Cyril Sneer]

Some of you guys are really stuck in the era your favourite bands came from

In 2013, Kim Mitchell is pretty much on par with Duran Duran, don't worry.

[-DLC-]

Some of you guys are really stuck in the era your favourite bands came from

In 2013, Kim Mitchell is pretty much on par with Duran Duran, don't worry.

Not "stuck in" it. By no means, don't even listen to him anymore (for years).

You still can enjoy something without being "stuck in" it. Nothing wrong with appreciating stuff from the past.

[NightHawkSniper]

Don't worry guys, there's always Avril, Celine Dion, Nickelback, and Justin Bieber to proudly carry the flag for our country.

[GLASSJAW]

Stuck in? How on earth would you even know? Because we're discussing it?

You still can enjoy something without being "stuck in" it.

I haven't listened to his music in years. But that doesn't mean I can't appreciate his stuff from the past if they do play it someplace.

[Butcher]

It has a lot to do with the management of the band and how they are promoted.

Americans don't get the Tragically hip for example they got a heavy promoton in the usa but because its a pretty acquired taste, it didnt fly.

I am Canadian and hate the hip, all of their songs sound the same.

[GLASSJAW]

rubbish, if they were never played on radio, reviewed in magazines, or shown on MTV, how exactly were they 'heavily promoted'? They got no exposure there. Theres only so much band management can do, they cant force execs at major radio companies to play their stuff, a few phone calls and CDs sent their way isnt going to do much. What band management can do is book them tours, but if people havent heard of the band, its not going to sell great, or they wont be playing big venues.

The Hip is not an 'acquired taste' - the hooks and mainstream rock elements are there. Good music will catch on anywhere, if heard. Again, not heard. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant to the argument.

Plenty i would put of Kim Mitchell as far as classic rock canadian artists go (Chilliwack, Bruce Cockburn, Tom Cochrane, etc), but yes, Kim Mitchell is a victim to the same machinery im talking about.

[Butcher]

Glassjaw - agree that Canadian bands have done well lately in the US and elsewhere, as i stated earlier. My argument is about the 90's bands, where im not just stating a couple favorite bands, but a huge amount of local talent that never got attention elsewhere. Was hard to ignore that thats what was happening. With media decentralized in the internet era (Pitchfork included), its easier for canadian bands to reach out, overcoming whats pushed on us by radio programmers etc.

No 'stuck in the past' here. As a regular new music listener and a contributor to the new music thread, that doesnt fall on me. But nothing wrong with loving past music too, and clearly i love 90's canadian music. Does that discount what happened or didnt happen with 90's canadian talent? not at all

[Butcher]

How many people below the age of 30 do you know who listen to The Hip?

I know one, and that's me. And I don't even have any of their music purchased or downloaded, so even saying "I listen to them" comes with a bit of reluctance.

Yes, they have the hooks and all that, but they have about zero appeal to mainstream target audiences for record execs

[The Bookie]

Is there any other band today that screams Canadiana so much as The Tragically Hip? The Kingston-brewed rockers kick off their summer touring season June 28, and to mark the occasion we’re spending this week in Arts & Life looking at all things Hip. Today: Ben Kaplan on why the band never cracked the U.S. market.

Robert Christgau began writing about music for Esquire in 1967. Thanks to his work in Playboy,Village Voice and Rolling Stone, the writer has earned his place among the most esteemed music critics in the world. In 2000, Christgau listened to Music @ Work by The Tragically Hip. He began his critique with two words: “Blame Canada.”

It’s a response not uncommon amongst American rock fans.

“We have pockets in the States where there’s great support, but there’s also an element of ‘every country supports their own,’ ” says The Tragically Hip’s guitarist Rob Baker, adding that the group can tour with an English act such as Stereophonics and swap headlining spots based on which side of the pond they perform.

“As people who live in Canada, we feel very much a part of our country and if our music is something that certain Canadians have partied to, we feel proud,” guitarist Paul Langlois says. “It isn’t quite the same in America, but that’s fine. I remember when we took the stage in ’99 at Woodstock — it was heartwarming to see all those Canadian flags.”

The Canadian flags have been unfurling for the Hip since the band got together in Kingston, Ont., in 1983. Since then, the group’s left an indelible impression on Canadian rock fans who’ve come of age over the past three decades. However, their impact’s been much more muted south of the border, leading to a national cultural obsession: Why?

“The music business is mostly about luck and timing and, in the early-’90s, they were out of step with the American zeitgeist,” says Michael Barclay, co-author of Have Not Been the Same, the bible of ’90s-era CanCon rock. “America was obsessed with grunge and the commercial breakthrough of hip hop and if a band misses their window, there’s no way you can get that back.”

At the time, the only Canadian artists who were crossing over in the United States were the solo stars Sarah McLachlan, Bryan Adams, Alanis Morissette and Celine Dion. Canadian music had yet to become trendy, which means that while the Hip is established in their home country — here, they’re a legacy act such as KISS or Mötley Crüe, who can tour without the interest derived from new music — the band never secured a similarly large, devoted fan base in the U.S.

“They come up sometimes in the way that a band like Rush might come up, as a shorthand joke about something that’s Canadian,” says David Marchese, a Toronto-born editor at Spin magazine, who recalls buying the Hip’s Day for Night on cassette when he was 12. “In every country, there’s musicians who are huge in their homeland and not big somewhere else, so I never understood the big deal. It’s like people are looking for approval from their big brother, but my feeling is, ‘So what if they’re not popular here?’ ”

Bernie Breen, the band’s long-time manager, says popularity is hard to define. “The problem is when you’re an arena band in one market, but you do 2,000-people shows in every other market, people think you’re not big anywhere else,” he says. “From L.A., up and down the coast, and in border areas such as Chicago, Philly and Boston, the Hip play to between 1,000 and 3,000 people — it’s still success, just not the same level.”

The Tragically Hip never moved to New York or L.A. — in fact, most of the group (and their manager) still live in Kingston. Their songs are laced with region-specific details, but the people we spoke to — including the band — don’t think there’s anything essentially “Canadian” about their sound. Still, without much help from the world’s biggest market, they’ve survived in rock music for 30 years.

“Canadians are mystified that our biggest band of the ’90s didn’t translate across the border, but I think that shouldn’t matter,” Barclay says. “To see them live at the height of their power with tens of thousands of people singing together those lines of poetry — to me, that’s all I need.”

[The Bookie]

this is the book mentioned, sounds like the ideal textbook for this subject:

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/1550224751

[olsenation15]

Who remembers Streetheart,Chilliwack,harlequin,The Queen City Kids, orphan, Bentall, Honeymoon Suite...Glass Tiger, ...April Wine...some of those achieved great success in The States...others were managed poorly. but all worthy bands/singers.

Love my Canadian music...gotta give it up for tegan and sara..at it awhile now, and have great sound,and a solid fan base south of the border...cheers

[Butcher]

The bookie - Looks like a good book, thanks.

Don't agree with 'missed their window though' - the Hip were pumping out great albums from the late eighties to the end of the nineties, that's a pretty large window where they should have been recognized down south. Plus, i think they did fit in with the alternative sound of the time, which remember wasn't just stricktly grunge bands, but hooky guitar laced bands with a wide range of influences.

I think this quote by guitarist Rob Baker from the article was interesting. “We have pockets in the States where there’s great support, but there’s also an element of ‘every country supports their own." Thats what ive been arguing, would have liked to see the article expand on that.

[Cyril Sneer]

rubbish, if they were never played on radio, reviewed in magazines, or shown on MTV, how exactly were they 'heavily promoted'? They got no exposure there. Theres only so much band management can do, they cant force execs at major radio companies to play their stuff, a few phone calls and CDs sent their way isnt going to do much. What band management can do is book them tours, but if people havent heard of the band, its not going to sell great, or they wont be playing big venues.

The Hip is not an 'acquired taste' - the hooks and mainstream rock elements are there. Good music will catch on anywhere, if heard. Again, not heard. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant to the argument.

Plenty i would put of Kim Mitchell as far as classic rock canadian artists go (Chilliwack, Bruce Cockburn, Tom Cochrane, etc), but yes, Kim Mitchell is a victim to the same machinery im talking about.

[Phil_314]

Great large ocean

[Butcher]

the tragically hip tragically suck.

I'm sorry but just can't understand why so many people like that band.

It's like AC/DC, you can't tell the difference between any of their songs it's like everything they ever wrote is just one long whinny song.

Kim Mitchell's lack of success is due to how incredibly ugly and dorky he is. In a time where Rock stars looked like Hot chicks.

And if you think about it he didn't really fit in anywhere.

[Cyril Sneer]

Im not going to go with the 'they suck' or 'rule' argument. Like i said before thats irrelevant to the argument, most of which you ignored. The Hip fit in with the sound of the 90's and sold huge here, thats reason enough to crack the market down south. Im not going to repeat myself on the rest of the argument.

I dont know how this all became a Tragically Hip discussion anyway, there were TONS of great Canadian bands in the 90's. Most of which would have got attention elsewhere, if heard.

[D-Money]

the tragically hip tragically suck.

I'm sorry but just can't understand why so many people like that band.

It's like AC/DC, you can't tell the difference between any of their songs it's like everything they ever wrote is just one long whinny song.

Kim Mitchell's lack of success is due to how incredibly ugly and dorky he is. In a time where Rock stars looked like Hot chicks.

And if you think about it he didn't really fit in anywhere.

[The Bookie]

You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger AC/DC hater than me, but even I have to admit that Thunderstruck is songwriting genius. The juxtaposition of melody/rhythm in that song is excellent.