Baka Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Guaranteed playoffs, offer sheeted O"Reilly, lmao. Holmgren hasn't been any better though. Traded Richards and Carter for cap space for Bryz who he signed to a 9 year 50m+ contract. The contract which he just bought out. I hate how people connect these events. Carter and Richards were not cap dumps to sign Bryz. For one it makes no sense considering Philadelphia could have kept all 3 players let alone considering all 3 players made about the same amount and only 1 would player moved would have balanced the numbers. (not to mention the cap raised nearly 5 million) Philadelphia was not happy with the face of the team and they decided to blow it up and remake it. (considering the anonymous player leaks trashing other teammates it was a good decision) Players Gone That Summer - Richards (trade) - Carter (trade) - Versteeg (trade) - Powe (trade) - Zherdev (released) - Leino (released) - Carcillo (released) Philly could have kept both had they really wanted to. Keep those releases and the Versteeg trade. Don't sign Jagr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Joneson Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Statistically speaking: Brian Burke Steve Tambellini Garth Snow Joe Nieuwendyk Scott Howson Greg Sherman Jay Feaster Choose your poison. All of these guys have been pretty bad in their own right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 I hate how people connect these events. Carter and Richards were not cap dumps to sign Bryz. For one it makes no sense considering Philadelphia could have kept all 3 players let alone considering all 3 players made about the same amount and only 1 would player moved would have balanced the numbers. (not to mention the cap raised nearly 5 million) Philadelphia was not happy with the face of the team and they decided to blow it up and remake it. (considering the anonymous player leaks trashing other teammates it was a good decision) Players Gone That Summer - Richards (trade) - Carter (trade) - Versteeg (trade) - Powe (trade) - Zherdev (released) - Leino (released) - Carcillo (released) Philly could have kept both had they really wanted to. Keep those releases and the Versteeg trade. Don't sign Jagr. Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren cleaned house -- and cleared needed salary cap space to sign Bryzgalov to a reported $51-million, nine-year deal. The Flyers acquired the rights to Bryzgalov, 31, earlier this month in a deal with the Phoenix Coyotes. Richards wasn't on the market and the Flyers were going to have to be overwhelmed to trade Carter before acquiring Bryzgalov. Once the Flyers acquired the rights, though, they needed to get the cash, because they were pressed against the salary cap. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=369796 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren cleaned house -- and cleared needed salary cap space to sign Bryzgalov to a reported $51-million, nine-year deal. The Flyers acquired the rights to Bryzgalov, 31, earlier this month in a deal with the Phoenix Coyotes. Richards wasn't on the market and the Flyers were going to have to be overwhelmed to trade Carter before acquiring Bryzgalov. Once the Flyers acquired the rights, though, they needed to get the cash, because they were pressed against the salary cap. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=369796 I know the way it played out, Bryz signed the day Carter and Richards were dealt. But you need to look at it from just a common sense standpoint. Lets just say the Canucks got a deal for a true #1 defenseman but they don't have the immediate cap space to sign him. Would you mode both Sedin's to make room? Or would you look to move pieces like Booth, Higgins, Edler, etc? Teams simply don't just move their captain and leading goal scorer to clear some cap. All Philadelphia had to do to fit him under the cap was move Versteeg or if they wanted to just 1 of them. Carter and Richards having to go to fit Bryz simply doesn't add up - Bryzgalov (5.667) 9 years for 51 million - Richards (5.75) 12 years for 69 million - Carter (5.273) 11 years 58 million Quote from your posted artical "This had nothing to do with the financial (part) at all," Holmgren said. "What we did today was make two good hockey trades." This is part of why they were both moved. - Multiple ex teammates critisize them in the media proving a divided locker room. (Dry Island being a private team matter that was leaked by teammates to the displeasure of some) - Numerous reports from people overhearing Pronger and Richards in shouting matches. - Numerous reports that players including Carter and Richards were bitter over John Stevens firing and were not seeing eye to eye with Laviolettes polar opposite style. (Later admitted that they had friction but still respected each other). - The numerous media fallouts and boycotts that seemed to be an ongoing distraction. Before Richards was even traded much of this was obvious and fans and analysts were already debating if he should be traded or have his captaincy removed until he was ready. http://articles.philly.com/2011-05-18/sports/29556389_1_captaincy-mike-richards-paul-holmgren Article was posted on May 18, 2011 (before this "shocking" trade happened) Haven't they put themselves in the position to either trade him or strip his captaincy? https://www.facebook.com/975thefanatic/posts/10150196312614049 This is an FM sports radio station in Philadelphia that talks Philly sports basically 24/7 once again asking fans if stripping Richards captaincy was a good idea. Again in May before the trade. You also may notice despite Ed Snider publically pinning Bryz entirely on Homer he has only supported the Richards and Carter trades and even when questioned before the trades about Richards unlike a confident owner in his captain he completely dodged the question saying it wasn't his responsibility to evaluate such things. The TLDR version is basically this was not a shocker to actual Flyers fans. These rumors were already around well before Bryz came into the picture. They didn't move their two best players just to clear some cap for a new goalie they moved them because they felt the situation wasn't getting any better and that was the best option in moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 I know the way it played out, Bryz signed the day Carter and Richards were dealt. But you need to look at it from just a common sense standpoint. Lets just say the Canucks got a deal for a true #1 defenseman but they don't have the immediate cap space to sign him. Would you mode both Sedin's to make room? Or would you look to move pieces like Booth, Higgins, Edler, etc? Teams simply don't just move their captain and leading goal scorer to clear some cap. All Philadelphia had to do to fit him under the cap was move Versteeg or if they wanted to just 1 of them. Carter and Richards having to go to fit Bryz simply doesn't add up - Bryzgalov (5.667) 9 years for 51 million - Richards (5.75) 12 years for 69 million - Carter (5.273) 11 years 58 million Quote from your posted artical This is part of why they were both moved. - Multiple ex teammates critisize them in the media proving a divided locker room. (Dry Island being a private team matter that was leaked by teammates to the displeasure of some) - Numerous reports from people overhearing Pronger and Richards in shouting matches. - Numerous reports that players including Carter and Richards were bitter over John Stevens firing and were not seeing eye to eye with Laviolettes polar opposite style. (Later admitted that they had friction but still respected each other). - The numerous media fallouts and boycotts that seemed to be an ongoing distraction. Before Richards was even traded much of this was obvious and fans and analysts were already debating if he should be traded or have his captaincy removed until he was ready. http://articles.phil...s-paul-holmgren Article was posted on May 18, 2011 (before this "shocking" trade happened) https://www.facebook...150196312614049 This is an FM sports radio station in Philadelphia that talks Philly sports basically 24/7 once again asking fans if stripping Richards captaincy was a good idea. Again in May before the trade. You also may notice despite Ed Snider publically pinning Bryz entirely on Homer he has only supported the Richards and Carter trades and even when questioned before the trades about Richards unlike a confident owner in his captain he completely dodged the question saying it wasn't his responsibility to evaluate such things. The TLDR version is basically this was not a shocker to actual Flyers fans. These rumors were already around well before Bryz came into the picture. They didn't move their two best players just to clear some cap for a new goalie they moved them because they felt the situation wasn't getting any better and that was the best option in moving forward. "Money was not the only factor. Regardless of how much truth there is in the rumors of discontent in the locker room due to Richards and Carter, the Flyers seemed displeased with the way their captain handled the media, particularly given that veteran Chris Pronger seemed like the most natural leader in the room." [via Bleacher Report] Money may not have been the only factor, but it still was one. There has been talk of trading a defenceman (Matt Carle) to clear cap space, [via Yahoo] Bryzgalov's cap hit was 5.66m Richards was 5.75m, Carters was 5.27m. Combined = 11.o2M. Subtract that from 5.66m = 5.36m Not to mention how much cap they had strapped to Pronger[4m+], Timonen[6m+] and Carle+Meszaros combined 8m+, and Coburn 3m+. With that additional 5.36m, they used 3.3m to sign Jagr leaving 2.06m left. Money may not have been the problem, it may have been mostly partying and not acting like Vets and whatnot, but it still was a key to it. You could say that the reason they traded them was cause they wanted to change the face of the team, but that's not entirely true. Bottom line, Holmgren is an idiot. Traded away JVR for Luke Schenn..., signed Bryz to that massive contract, traded away the team who took them to the Stanley Cup finals, and he signs Streit/Lecavalier to massive deals. They didn't want to trade their defense group as it was a key to their success. If they didn't make the finals with that group, one or two would've been traded. Therefore some forwards needed to be traded rather than d-men. The only decent piece they got from the trades would have to be Voracek. Simmonds isn't bad though. Richards/Carter were able to be traded cause there was no point in having a 5m+ player playing the 3C spot. Meaning that Giroux would then be the 1C. If one went, the other one left as well as they both were locker room cancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABNuck Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Statistically speaking: Brian Burke Steve Tambellini Garth Snow Joe Nieuwendyk Scott Howson Greg Sherman Jay Feaster Choose your poison. All of these guys have been pretty bad in their own right. Spot on. Results oriented business. Period. Lack of results, no matter the methodology involved (this is why GMMG is NOT the worst...good results no matter the methods employed), is a direct reflection of abilities. However some consideration should be given to the fact that not all teams, owners and GMs are on a level playing field (ie/ Regier should be on the list in that , although they were okay statistically, they should have been FAR better). And for the same reason, Snow should not be on the list as NYI is growing its fanbase, and moving upward statistically. And you really do need to swap out Feaster (should definitely make the list next year for his draft picks alone) for Sutter...this was HIS mess...didn't really leave him anywhere to go really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intoewsables Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I agree but MG hasn't done all that much. Burke built this team. Only decent moves by MG were Malhotra, Higgins, Lapierre was so/so, can't count the FA signings as Hamhuis+Garrison took discounts. Hamhuis was a good signing though IMO. If Burke was still our GM, do you think we would've won a cup by now? Look at Toronto, Burke got fired although he built the Leafs, same scenario here lol. Burke gets fired each time he makes a decent team. Nonis hasn't done anything but overpay players. One decent trade with Bolland, but that wouldn't have happened if CHI didn't need to clear cap space. IMO Burke doesn't deserve to be in that list. Show me a list of GMs who decide to blow their team up for the sake of "building their own team" and have success. Every GM inherits players. You can argue that Gillis hasn't made big moves, but the record this team has compiled with him at the helm speaks for itself. As soon as he took over, the Canucks went from a borderline playoff team to a perennial division champion, two-time President's Trophy winner and came one win away from winning it all. Anyone seriously calling Gillis the worst GM post-lockout is beyond clueless and has no idea how good we really have it here. Anyways, this list begins and ends with Doug MacLean. Not only did he fail to improve the team at all during his tenure, but Columbus also struggled to develop top talent despite consistently picking high in the draft. Absolutely pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 Show me a list of GMs who decide to blow their team up for the sake of "building their own team" and have success. Every GM inherits players. You can argue that Gillis hasn't made big moves, but the record this team has compiled with him at the helm speaks for itself. As soon as he took over, the Canucks went from a borderline playoff team to a perennial division champion, two-time President's Trophy winner and came one win away from winning it all. Anyone seriously calling Gillis the worst GM post-lockout is beyond clueless and has no idea how good we really have it here. Anyways, this list begins and ends with Doug MacLean. Not only did he fail to improve the team at all during his tenure, but Columbus also struggled to develop top talent despite consistently picking high in the draft. Absolutely pathetic. I never said MG is the worst, I just meant to say that Burke shouldn't be on that list considering he got us the Sedins, Kesler, and has done a lot more to this team than MG has done. Not saying Mike hasn't done anything, but the core was built by Burke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 ... Anyways, this list begins and ends with Doug MacLean. Not only did he fail to improve the team at all during his tenure, but Columbus also struggled to develop top talent despite consistently picking high in the draft. Absolutely pathetic. MacLean was last a GM in the 2006/07 season, which was 6 years ago. Pretty hard to be the worst in the last 5 years as a result, which is why I mention Howson who did very little to improve on MacLean's record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olsenation15 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Glen Sather...Done, does not get the new game. worst gm in last 5, hired Torts..horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 Glen Sather...Done, does not get the new game. worst gm in last 5, hired Torts..horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking mama Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 3. Garth Snow. DiPietro signing was the worst EVER! Sure...Grabner & Tavares are bright-spots & he seems to raid the waiver- wire effectively....but that's about it. 2. Jay Feaster. He's trapped his team in a pathetic & detestable Ground-Hog Day loop...having losing seasons...year, after year, after year....& virtually no draft picks or prospects of any real worth to show for it. And - then there were the blunders & near blunders. 1. Brian Burke...for being the most arrogant GM in hockey - when he was one. He seemed incapable of discerning or owning-up to his errors...therefore he didn't appear to learn from his mistakes. Burkie's vindictiveness is now universally known. IMO - his sarcastic witt does not compensate for his general rudeness or the bully tactics he employs as business practices. I believe Burkie attempted to put his manipulative hands in far too many pots - as a disturber. The new owners decided to dismiss him.... 'cuz he was apparently harming the "Leafs" new brand....and that's saying something. And I bet, that he still won't be able to process this message. Now I'll sit back & wait to be sued for defamation. It's his way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Gotta agree with the Feaster consensus. Even though the Bryz signing was a joke... Homer has made a lot of moves, and many of them have been good. He's an active GM but generally is fixing mistakes quickly.. Philly has played 68 playoff games in the last 5 years. There's no way that makes someone the 'worst GM'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metroneck Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I'm not saying that Feaster does not deserve to be in the discussion, but lets get the facts straight. He has been the GM for 2 years, half of that was the lock out, plus add another 1/2 year as the interim. Not a large body of work (no pun intended), when compared to other candidates... He inherited an absolute mess, with zero prospects, and an ownership group that insisted on flogging that nearly dead horse. If you look at most rankings of prospect depth, the Flames have moved from the 28-30 range up to the top half of the league under his reign. Although the increase in the prospect pool is most likely due to the addition of Conroy and Weisbrod to the management team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Don Waddell, easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Brian Burke Rutherford Niewendky Tambelinni Yzerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Jay Feaster is in the finals, hands down. He may have inherited some issues, but he also had a very weak idea of what to do about them. Instead of addressing their greatest need, he wasted cap space on overpriced assets like Camalleri (pinning himself repeatedly back up against the cap), kept fooling himself that his team was ready to contend for a playoff spot (and even went so far as suggesting Cammalleri positioned them for a "playoff run" when they were hopelessly weak up the middle), overpaid for Wideman, wasted too much time before dealing his core assets (and missed out entirely on getting anything for Kipper), didn't get enough for Iginla, drafted outside the box when they needed closer to NHL ready assets. The one redeeming deal imo was what he managed to get for Bouwmeester, but then he used that pick to go outside the box for Poirier... I'd hate to be a Flames fan in his tenure. People here suggesting Howson belongs in the discussion are basing that on false impressions moreso than the actual results of his moves imo. Adding Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and Rychel in the Nash deal was a much better result than suggested, and adding Bobrovsky at the expense of Philly was a career move... Howson's worst deal was the Vorachek and a 1st (Couturier) for Carter deal, but he turned around and converted Carter into Johnson and a 1st. The Jackets went from 29-46 to 24-17 in the process of Howson losing his job. Aside from Feaster, I think Regier belongs in the discussion. Some of the worst free agent contracts in the NHL, and a very odd concept of team building. Burke is like Howson in some respects - his deals weren't as bad as suggested, and it was essentially his team that just made it's first playoff birth in ages. If anything, what Nonis has done this summer might put him in the discussion in the near future - imo the Leafs were in far better shape a year ago at this time... Feaster takes it imo though. No confidence whatsover in his decision making ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrious1 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Have to go with the all Alberta combo of Feaster/Tambellini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misconduct16 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Howsen has to take the cake with all the potential with the high draft picks they had which seem to regularly turn into busts. Honorable mention of course to Feaster, Holmgren, and Tambellini. Burke did a bad job record wise, but the team he built made the playoffs and were close to making noise last year, the only reason TO let him go was because the new ownership/management group did not like his management style particularly in relation to his stubbornness and relationship with the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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