Lonny_Bohonos_14 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 at 5 years, if they have 50 mill in cummulative losses (guaranteed) they can terminate the lease, say peace out, and drop the mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2xtreme Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 so, that 50 million in losses over 5 year, is that before or after the revenue sharing and glendale payment? Just an assumption on my part, but I'm going to say that 'after' is a safe bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Actually, some of it is our money. We pay ridiculous prices for tickets. Such is the price of being a fan in a real hockey market. But the Coyotes projections all include getting a chunk of that revenue sharing pie. Where does that money come from? The stronger franchises, like us, who fork money over to those failing markets year after year to try and keep them afloat. Those higher prices we pay, in part, go to subsidize the Coyotes. Having teams in real hockey markets benefit everyone. Is Seattle a great market? I don't know, but it can't be any worse than Phoenix. I believe they would be a great place for a team. Quebec City is a slam dunk money maker. When teams offer season ticket packages that include free parking and a jersey, for a total cost of less than a jersey at the Team Store at Rogers Arena... well, it gets to be insulting that they fight tooth and nail to keep those teams there. Especially when we see games on TV and the arena is less than half full. Apparently 17 years of bleeding money wasn't a big enough warning sign to the league and to the city. If Phoenix/Glendale/Arizona was a half decent hockey market, I wouldn't care if the team was there. But they've had 17 years to show up and haven't. What happened to the whole "Well, the arena is in a terrible location!" excuse?? Did the rink move with the new owners? Please... Fact is, the Phoenix Coyotes have NEVER made a profit in any one year since moving to the desert from Winnipeg. Couldn't find the numbers from way back, but starting in 2004: 2004 - $75 million 2005 - $50 million 2006 - $75 million 2007 - $117 million <-- that is NOT a typo 2008 - $72 million 2009 - $18.5 million 2010 - $20.1 million 2011 - $24 million 2012 - 20.6 million Couldn't find the numbers for the 2013 season. Will they do better financially now? Sure, maybe. But THAT much better? Think they won't bleed another $50 million over a 5 year window? It's more a question of how long will it take them to bleed that $50 million? I'll be generous and say 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I am sorry but when will this joke of a franchise be cut from the league along with Coloumbus ? Really why are they even trying. Buttman should be publicly hung for letting this farce continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 If they feel it will work there good for them. It's not your money why are you trash talking them? Maybe it will work, maybe it won't but good for them for finally getting something done regarding it. I hope Phoenix has a good future and can attract enough people to turn into a good hockey market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullMetalOilDrum Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 This is so lame! Still no team for Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Mauviette75 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Canadian teams like ours who are raking it in year after year keep this league afloat while garbage owners and teams leach off our fans money ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 not that i'm saying the coyotes should stay (cause i think phoenix is a horrible sports city altogether, not just hockey), but lets be real for a second. the Canucks were failing for yeeeaars. it's good they stuck with it for a while, but lets not act as if the Canucks have always been a successful franchise. sometimes, it's a good thing for successful teams to contribute money to teams that aren't successful. also no offense but for the most part it's the american teams pulling the weight in terms of profits/money sharing/TV deals. Maple leafs are in first, but there's only 3 Canadian team in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Mauviette75 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Not a good comparison. The Coyotes were failing even with revenue sharing which did not exist at the time the Canucks were having problems. If it did exist, the Canucks would not have had a problem. Your second bolded part is also incorrect. Canadian teams, with smaller urban markets for the most part, are the most profitable teams per capita. If all of the Profit (not revenue) was done on a per population basis you would see that Canada keeps the league, meaning the bottom 10 teams, buoyed up. The other thing you will notice is that the most profitable US teams are mostly Original 6 meaning their revenue is highly tied to the Canadian market and it took decades for that to happen. Much of the money that Detroit takers in as revenue actually comes from Southern Ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl's Jn Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 nice.. congrats phoenix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 well, i didn't say the Canucks benefited from revenue sharing, but i see your point. the thing about trying to expand the league is that it may take years to take hold. the coyotes fan base has been steadily increasing. i still don't think they deserve a team over many places, but sometimes it's worth taking some years of failure to eventually achieve success. for instance the new england patriots blew chuncks for many years, and were basically insolvent, and now they're one of the top 6 teams in the NFL. I am afraid I can't see which part you said was bolded because i'm on a horrendous 1990s piece of crap that shouldn't exist. that being said, i was not talking "per capita". per capita doesn't mean anything. real dollars are what rules. if we started a team in a small town in the middle of nowhere, for sure it would lead in per capita. but the TV deal is what matters at the end of the day. attendance isn't even that important. As for the original six argument, that actually is interesting, and i'd love to see some stats. but apart from detroit... not a lot of canadian fans for BOS, CHI, NYR. and i goes both ways, a lot of MTL fans in VT, NH, and ME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Mauviette75 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 It has been years though and they have not profited once. When Vancouver came into the League the Metro area was extremely small, and it was not considered a hockey hotbed. Vancouver's sudden surge to the top 10 in revenue came with a huge boost in population in from the late 80's on. Once the new immigrants and their kids caught on by the turn of the century it was off to the races. That will never backslide now unless the company destroys its fan base by ostracizing them. The Coyotes walked into one of the largest Metro areas in the US with all the help from the CBA and the league and they can't make money. There will be no excuses by the middle of 2015... if the are still losing money its over. Per capita means everything. It means that one population, i.e. the Canadian people, are inordinately supporting the bottom 10 US markets, which means OUR money is being given... GIVEN... to corporations south of the border. Look at where Calgary and Edmonton sit on a per capita compared to the cities below them in revenue. The Canucks bring in almost exactly the same as Chicago when our metro population is 1/3rd of theirs. That means that Vancouver has to be 3 times more attractive PER CAPITA to exist on the same level. With regards to the O6 teams, I don't have stats but I'm pretty sure there are more Canadian fans of US teams than vice versa but that wasn't even exactly my point. It's the rivalry and tradition that counts. The same could be said of Philly-Pitts, and it's not a coincidence that they both have had many Cup winning seasons. The only other US based team to get in the top 10 is LA and the have half the population of Canada. Even with that, and a recent Cup, they still are only worth slightly more than Calgary and Edmonton. The numbers don't lie, the Canadian people are funding the worst teams in the NHL out of their own pockets. Is the US population helping? Sure, but they pay a lot less than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Half of the team's revenue comes from when Vancouver fans go to watch them play the Canucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 not that i'm saying the coyotes should stay (cause i think phoenix is a horrible sports city altogether, not just hockey), but lets be real for a second. the Canucks were failing for yeeeaars. it's good they stuck with it for a while, but lets not act as if the Canucks have always been a successful franchise. sometimes, it's a good thing for successful teams to contribute money to teams that aren't successful. also no offense but for the most part it's the American teams pulling the weight in terms of profits/money sharing/TV deals. Maple leafs are in first, but there's only 3 Canadian team in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 So a five years out clause, huh? That would mean they could be moved in time for the 2018-19 season. Interesting timing, given Bettman's own five year extension: That is because he quietly negotiated a five-year contract extension last November. Bettman's current contract pays him $7.2-million (all currency U.S.) per year and was to end this summer, although the governors may have earlier picked up an option that extended it to 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
мeтpо Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Everyone mad at this is just mad because the Coyotes weren't relocated to Seattle. I'm glad it didn't happen. Glendale will likely be more successful anyways as Seattle fans only attend winning teams' games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Everyone mad at this is just mad because the Coyotes weren't relocated to Seattle. I'm glad it didn't happen. Glendale will likely be more successful anyways as Seattle fans only attend winning teams' games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 It's a shame. Phoenix has a good core of players, a great management group and a great coaching staff, sadly no one really gets to see and root for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 not that i'm saying the coyotes should stay (cause i think phoenix is a horrible sports city altogether, not just hockey), but lets be real for a second. the Canucks were failing for yeeeaars. it's good they stuck with it for a while, but lets not act as if the Canucks have always been a successful franchise. sometimes, it's a good thing for successful teams to contribute money to teams that aren't successful. also no offense but for the most part it's the american teams pulling the weight in terms of profits/money sharing/TV deals. Maple leafs are in first, but there's only 3 Canadian team in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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