Edlerberry Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Angels have the ability to bend the laws of the universe for compassionate reasons, but they aren't allowed to intervene unless we ask. When Katie asked people to pray with her, that allowed for the divine intervention to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Angels have the ability to bend the laws of the universe for compassionate reasons, but they aren't allowed to intervene unless we ask. When Katie asked people to pray with her, that allowed for the divine intervention to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Once again you show your ignorance.... When you know what you are talking about come back then. EDIT: Those passages you quoted earlier sure are those things you said. However in the New Testemant Jesus gave new tennents to follow, replacing the ones in the Old Testement. There are some pretty crazy things in the Old Testement, which obviously don`t apply today, much more drastic than what you quoted even. I believe Jewish people still follow most of the old testement but dont believe in the new testement (I am not 100% on this). So the bible is not telling women to be submissive to men and all those other things. It needs to be taken in context with all of the bible. The New Testement is what Christianity is based on. I hope this clears up some confusion. Also since they found out who the priest was doesn`t mean anything. He was at the right place at the right time. Some would call it a coincidence, some a small miracle. If he wasn`t there maybe the woman wouldn`t have survived, maybe she would have. Know knows. It seems you intend to go down at all cost trying to prove his presence there made no difference whatsoever. Of course we can`t know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Miracles as an act of God Adherents of many religions assert that miracles, if established, are logical proof of the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, and all-benevolent God. In this view, a miracle can be defined as a violation of laws of nature by a supernatural being. To wit:There are events that seem to be miracles.The best explanation for these events is that they were performed by a supernatural being.Therefore, there is probably a supernatural being (i.e., God) that performs what appear to be miracles. A number of criticisms of this point of view exist:While the existence of miracles may imply the existence of a supernatural miracle worker, that supernatural miracle worker need not be an omnipotent, omniscient, and all-benevolent God; it could be any supernatural being.Some argue that miracles, if established, are evidence that a perfect God does not exist, as such a being would not want to, or need to, violate its own laws of nature. Roman Catholic theologians accept this reasoning, and only conclude that the miracles are from an omnipotent God, because they believed to have previously logically proven (through concepts like the prime mover) that there must be a single omnipotent, omniscient, God. Miracles as described by the Bible The description of most miracles in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and in the Christian New Testament are generally the same as the modern-day definition of the word: God intervenes in the laws of nature. A literal reading of the Biblical accounts shows that there are a number of ways this can occur: God may suspend or speed up the laws of nature to produce a supernatural occurrence; God can create matter out of nothing; God can breathe life into inanimate matter. The Bible does not explain details of how these miracles happen. The Bible also attributes many natural occurrences to God, such as the sun rising and setting, and rain falling. FROM WORD I.Q.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 The part I bolded is a really stupid argument. If that happens then no one notices anything right? It could happen a hundered times a day and no one would ever know. Everything goes on fine and dandy. Everyone only notices the negative things and draws attention to that. Why didn`t God to this, why didn`t God do that, blah blah blah. Maybe people should be looking at what he has done and given us instead. I`m sure everyone has a different idea of God, but I`m pretty sure not many think he controls every single little thing, and makes everything happen. He gave people free will. That man that hit her car had free will and made the decision to drink and drive, it sucks that she had to have this happen because of someone elses mistakes. It doesn`t mean she deserved it, doesn`t mean God is `punishing` her, it just resulted out of a stupid choice someone else made. The more you talk the more it is obvious you have no idea what Christians actually believe like you say you do. And thats fine, you dont have to, you have your beliefs too, and I sure dont understand them either. But it might be a good idea to actually learn a bit about what we believe before you go making yourself look foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Well...TBH, I didn't say it (The Bible) has faults - unless you want to say that it's fault is it is open for interpretation. There are things in the Bible that were put there for certain points in time and for reasons that you and I can't begin to comprehend. Some people try to take God's word as if they were Him - omnipotent, etc. So, they see a phrase in the Bible and they take that it is to be like that for all of time. Example, take the Sabbath. A lot of people today still believe you shouldn't do any work (nor allow others to work on your property) on the Sabbath day. Heck, some of them can't even agree if the Sabbath is Sunday or Saturday. They aren't listening to Jesus. Jesus came to save us - to show us the Old Testament laws, and to open them up...that is, he says yes, you should worship God, but not just one day a week - all days...the Sabbath was originally there so people of that time would worship God at least 1 day a week. God doesn't change - but our time here does. God knows that. Jesus knows that. That's why he said is it worse to not work a day and let someone go hungry or to feed them? Same as I said about Sin - God isn't punishing anyone for Sin - Jesus saved us from that, He paid the Sin debt for all of mankind, past, present/ future. That's a hard one to understand - but if you accept it, and accept that the world has Sin (which won't go away) then you can begin to understand it... Like I said, the problem with the Bible (but it's also a blessing) is it's open for interpretation by both Christians and non Christians. People take what they want, add to it or expand it or take a part of it and change it - yet God said not to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 It seems you intend to go down at all cost trying to prove his presence there made no difference whatsoever. Of course we can`t know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbal23 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Of course we can, unless you're implying that the fire truck already en route when the reverend popped up would have inexplicably stopped its approach unless the reverend popped up. I think the reason why this miniscule event was even classified as a miracle in the first place is because of misinformation. They couldn't find him, even though he left his contact info. But instead of letting the guy come forth on his own, this story somehow ballooned into a ridiculous, widespread tale about how he was an angel and this was divine intervention. The miracle here is that there are so many people willing to believe just about anything the media spews out at them. "Follow the gourd!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Lol, no wonder religion is such a joke. Some people just want to be mislead. I think evolutionary biologist, atheist and popular youtuber AronRa sums up what you're trying to say perfectly: If there was one true god, it should be the singular composite of every religion's gods -- An uber galactic super genius in the ultimate entity of the entire cosmos. If a being of that magnitude ever wrote a book, then there would only be one such document. It would be dominant. There would be no predecessors, or parallels or alternatives in any language because mere human authors couldn't possibly compete with it. And you wouldn't need faith to believe it because it would be consistent with all evidence and demonstrably true -- revealing profound morality and wisdom far beyond contemporary human capacity. If god wrote it, we could expect no less. Except what we see is the very opposite of that. Instead of only one religion leading the one ultimate truth we have many different religions with no common origin, all constantly sharding in the ever more deeply divided denomination seeking conflicting truths and each somehow claiming divine guidance despite their ongoing divergence in every direction. Each holy text claims to be the ultimate truth and claims to speak for the one true god and claim the others are deceived. The only logical probability is that they are all at least to some degree deceived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBusiness Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I have read many cherry picked posts of passages from the Bible about Homophobia and women rights in this thread, I say read the whole book and decide for yourself. If you still decide the book is all wrong for you, then that’s up to you. Fun fact: The Bible has some bad things written in it, therefor Religion is wrong/don’t believe in God. Fun fact: Vancouver treated the Gay community and Women badly in the past, therefor Vancouver is bad so you shouldn't live here. I think people can believe in what they want to believe in without judgement. So to all the Atheist’s that are trying to convert people to not believe, I say good luck to you and believe what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 It's interesting to see that both sides so readily dismiss the points or arguments of the other. An honest person looking into this must admit that all the information is not there on either side of the subject. This makes it hard to be sure one way or the other. This incomplete understanding leads us all to create beliefs (one way or the other) but these beliefs are meaningless since we don't have all the information necessary to prove or disprove that there is God. Quantum physics has ushered in a completely new reality and understanding for all of us and one could argue that fact that whatever someone thinks to be true is the way things are within the scope of their personal reality. As for myself (so not to just be deemed to be sitting on the fence) I do believe that there is an intelligent design to the universe. That universal laws exist because they were thought into being. If some call this God so be it, but I believe this intelligence operates subconsciously rather than with an awareness. I feel that religion uses this understanding to usurp power and keep the masses in a state of fear and ignorance. My main question to all those devout believers of the bible is this: Where is Hell? If God is Omnipresent, where exists a realm that is devoid of God? In my mind the conception of Hell goes against all that these religions supposedly stand for (A benevolent supreme being that loves us like children and gives us this precious gift of free will - yet, has created a place of eternal agony to put his beloved creations in, should they exercise the use of this free will and on top of it knows before he created you whether or not you would deserve to go to such a place - makes very little sense to me.) A conscious, logical, benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God is something which I know cannot exist. Some of those elements may be true but all cannot, as the universe would be a very different place than what we observe it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 This was dis-proven to be a miracle. Let the thread die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 This was dis-proven to be a miracle. Let the thread die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butters Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Quantum physics has ushered in a completely new reality and understanding for all of us and one could argue that fact that whatever someone thinks to be true is the way things are within the scope of their personal reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 It's interesting to see that both sides so readily dismiss the points or arguments of the other. An honest person looking into this must admit that all the information is not there on either side of the subject. This makes it hard to be sure one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 The thing is, saying "I don't know but I'm fairly confident there's a logical answer to this" (which turned out to be the case) is very different from saying "I don't know, therefore magic". They aren't on equal footing. Just because you don't know the answer, doesn't mean any possible answer is a valid option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butters Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 An honest person looking into this must admit that all the information is not there on either side of the subject. This makes it hard to be sure one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Seth Andrews talking about this exact situation and giving praise to those who actually deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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