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On 11/14/2022 at 1:21 PM, UnkNuk said:

From the article:

 

There’s no clear indication of exactly how much money Brady put into FTX, but rumors have put the figure into the hundreds of millions.

 

That may not be likely, but it’s sure to be an eye-popping number regardless.

 

Sounds to me like someone pulled the number out of thin air for clicks.

Brady has a reported net worth of $250 Million. So it's highly doubtful that he put in hundreds of millions. I also doubt his financial advisor would have sunk more than a small percentage of his net worth in any one investment.

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3 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Sure. Obviously stupid men. 

it's obviously not a matter of being stupid. Buffet admitted he's been wrong about tech for years - he was wrong about apple, he was wrong about microsoft, google and amazon. the list goes on and on. 

 

in 2018 he called bitcoin "rat poison." the irony was lost on him. who is the rat? the answer is obvious

 

from a pure investment perspective, when he called bitcoin rat poison it was valued at $7-8k USD, now it's at $16,000+ USD, despite there being a global recession, one of the biggest exchanges on the planet going belly-up and a well-respected dinosaur like Munger repeating that it's only used by criminals

 

bitcoin is the single most interesting, exciting and profitable speculative asset on the planet

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If SP has another leg down, which many are expecting to 3200-3300 (some think into the 2000s!), BTC will follow. At that point, should it materialize, BTC will probably present the most attractive risk adjusted return opportunity. 
 

On another note, im interested to see what happens to SBF. He was a large dem donor. The timing of it is certainly convenient to regulators. They will make an example of an unregulated off shore exchange as justification for obscene on shore regulations. 

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12 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

Brady has a reported net worth of $250 Million. So it's highly doubtful that he put in hundreds of millions. I also doubt his financial advisor would have sunk more than a small percentage of his net worth in any one investment.

His ex-wife Gisele has a net worth of $400 million, they were investor partners in FTX.  It's probably not in the hundreds of millions that they invested, but it's probably millions for sure. 

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On 11/17/2022 at 12:59 PM, UnkNuk said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/11/16/brady-curry-shaq-among-athletes-facing-lawsuit-in-ftx-debacle?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_5552104

 

Brady, Curry, Shaq Among Athletes Facing Lawsuit in FTX Debacle
 

A slew of high-profile athletes and celebrities are listed on a class-action lawsuit filed against the cryptocurrency exchange platform FTX and its founder Sam Bankman-Fried. 

 

Tom Brady, Stephen Curry, Naomi Osaka, Trevor Lawrence, Larry David, Shohei Ohtani and Shaquille O'Neal are a few of the names included on the filing that alleges FTX and the former CEO violated Florida law by misleading customers. The lawsuit claims these individuals, among others, “either controlled, promoted, assisted in, and actively participated” in the alleged scheme where they “aggressively marketed” FTX.

Tom Brady will be playing into his 60's I think...

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17 hours ago, GLASSJAW said:

it's obviously not a matter of being stupid. Buffet admitted he's been wrong about tech for years - he was wrong about apple, he was wrong about microsoft, google and amazon. the list goes on and on. 

 

in 2018 he called bitcoin "rat poison." the irony was lost on him. who is the rat? the answer is obvious

 

from a pure investment perspective, when he called bitcoin rat poison it was valued at $7-8k USD, now it's at $16,000+ USD, despite there being a global recession, one of the biggest exchanges on the planet going belly-up and a well-respected dinosaur like Munger repeating that it's only used by criminals

 

bitcoin is the single most interesting, exciting and profitable speculative asset on the planet

I hope you are right. 

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22 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

This guy is still walking free.  Amazing...

 

Doesn't this just smell bad? Bankman-Fried apparently lent himself $1 billion and another $2.3 billion to a company he owns. I was back handed a while back by repeating Charlie Munger's suggestion that crypto currencies were a massive fraud. Trying to learn my lesson I did a brief research. 

 

Fundamentally I like block chain technology which crypto rolls itself in. Transferring 'coins' require an exchange. These exchanges are not regulated and largely function on trust. The libertarian heaven of transferring assets in an anonymous manner. Crypto is not currency but an asset. In a 3rd world country where government currency can change radically there could be a utility. In 1st world, not so much. Other, safer ways to protect yourself. 

 

FTX is/was the 4th largest crypto exchange handling $600 billion year to date (YTD). The largest is Biance which handled $4.6 Trillion YTD. The industry did $8.19 trillion YTD. Is there another FTX in this mix? No one knows, yet. With lack of oversight there could be. I doubt this situation has the contagion of the bank crisis of 2008. Crypto has a narrow base of utility.   

Edited by Boudrias
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3 hours ago, Boudrias said:

FTX is/was the 4th largest crypto exchange handling $600 billion year to date (YTD). The largest is Biance which handled $4.6 Trillion YTD. The industry did $8.19 trillion YTD.

What is meant by "handled"?  If one bit coin is transferred back and forth ten times, would it be counted ten times in calculating the "handle"?

 

I find that $8.19 TRILLION amount astonishing.

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3 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

What is meant by "handled"?  If one bit coin is transferred back and forth ten times, would it be counted ten times in calculating the "handle"?

 

I find that $8.19 TRILLION amount astonishing.

 

4 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

What is meant by "handled"?  If one bit coin is transferred back and forth ten times, would it be counted ten times in calculating the "handle"?

 

I find that $8.19 TRILLION amount astonishing.

Sorry about the duplication. It is my understanding that it would be counted 10X. Each movement is a transaction. The article was written by Liz Ann Sonders of Charles Swab & Company. She frequently appears on Wall Street Week. $8.19 trillion sounds like a lot but if you consider the trading volume of S&P it is not. I think another reason regulators aren't in a panic is that the ownership base is so narrow. While they will certainly investigate this 'theft' it will not threaten the financial system. Many people will lose a lot of money however.   

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1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

Many people will lose a lot of money however.   

It's interesting to figure out how much people lose in situations like this.

 

For instance, suppose someone bought ten bitcoins when bitcoins cost $1,000 each.  So he spends $10,000.  He puts these ten bitcoins into an exchange.  The price of a bitcoin goes up to $20,000.  So his bitcoins, in theory, are worth $200,000.  Then the exchange goes bust and he loses access to his bitcoins.  How much has he lost?  $10,000 or $200,000?

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2 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

It's interesting to figure out how much people lose in situations like this.

 

For instance, suppose someone bought ten bitcoins when bitcoins cost $1,000 each.  So he spends $10,000.  He puts these ten bitcoins into an exchange.  The price of a bitcoin goes up to $20,000.  So his bitcoins, in theory, are worth $200,000.  Then the exchange goes bust and he loses access to his bitcoins.  How much has he lost?  $10,000 or $200,000?

For tax purposes the time at loss. To mitigate the depression the investment value. :) 

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2 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

Sorry, you lost me there.

I guess my bad effort to bring some humor to this topic. If the value of his holding was $200,000 at market then he might be able to claim a tax loss. If that wasn't the case then losing $10,000 at actual cost would possibly hurt less than losing $200,000.  

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4 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Doesn't this just smell bad? Bankman-Fried apparently lent himself $1 billion and another $2.3 billion to a company he owns. I was back handed a while back by repeating Charlie Munger's suggestion that crypto currencies were a massive fraud. Trying to learn my lesson I did a brief research. 

 

Fundamentally I like block chain technology which crypto rolls itself in. Transferring 'coins' require an exchange. These exchanges are not regulated and largely function on trust. The libertarian heaven of transferring assets in an anonymous manner. Crypto is not currency but an asset. In a 3rd world country where government currency can change radically there could be a utility. In 1st world, not so much. Other, safer ways to protect yourself. 

 

FTX is/was the 4th largest crypto exchange handling $600 billion year to date (YTD). The largest is Biance which handled $4.6 Trillion YTD. The industry did $8.19 trillion YTD. Is there another FTX in this mix? No one knows, yet. With lack of oversight there could be. I doubt this situation has the contagion of the bank crisis of 2008. Crypto has a narrow base of utility.   

Now the question comes down to with the failure of no less than 5 major exchanges this year or more and that volume of wealth, unchecked; floating around the system.  Does this not suggest that at some point in time soon the government and regulated institutions will get involved.

 

You can't have half a trillion disappear overnight and NOT get some serious level of intense pushback and regulatory oversight 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Now the question comes down to with the failure of no less than 5 major exchanges this year or more and that volume of wealth, unchecked; floating around the system.  Does this not suggest that at some point in time soon the government and regulated institutions will get involved.

 

You can't have half a trillion disappear overnight and NOT get some serious level of intense pushback and regulatory oversight 

 

 

Isn't one of the prime rationales behind crypto a method of 'hiding' who owns what? I agree that government will want to create some monitoring system so as to tax it if nothing else. What 5 exchanges failed? I don't get excited about crypto in any form but do believe than bloc chain technology is the future.  

 

It will be very interesting to see how much of this is recovered. It isn't a half trillion $'s. That figure was the amount transacted through their platform year to date. I don't know the amount of assets they were holding. 

 

Not the same topic but I have read stories that suggest that as much as $1.5 trillion circulates around the world in short term money looking for returns. This amount of money is given as a partial reason for the increase in stock market volatility. When the S&P swings 5% in a single trading day on large volumes it is unheard of. Who owns this $1.5 trillion? Any combination of governments, organized crime, wealthy individuals or organizations, hedge funds... Some financial people are saying that AI trading is using this money more and more. My point in all this is what happens if there is a crisis of confidence in markets or geopolitically and this money is pulled? Would it cause a crisis circa 2008?    

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2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Isn't one of the prime rationales behind crypto a method of 'hiding' who owns what? I agree that government will want to create some monitoring system so as to tax it if nothing else. What 5 exchanges failed? I don't get excited about crypto in any form but do believe than bloc chain technology is the future.  

 

It will be very interesting to see how much of this is recovered. It isn't a half trillion $'s. That figure was the amount transacted through their platform year to date. I don't know the amount of assets they were holding. 

 

Not the same topic but I have read stories that suggest that as much as $1.5 trillion circulates around the world in short term money looking for returns. This amount of money is given as a partial reason for the increase in stock market volatility. When the S&P swings 5% in a single trading day on large volumes it is unheard of. Who owns this $1.5 trillion? Any combination of governments, organized crime, wealthy individuals or organizations, hedge funds... Some financial people are saying that AI trading is using this money more and more. My point in all this is what happens if there is a crisis of confidence in markets or geopolitically and this money is pulled? Would it cause a crisis circa 2008?    

FTX happened, one happened a few weeks earlier, another in August and 2 in late july.

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