Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

proposal a decent proposal from cucumber!


Recommended Posts

Please tell me how to get a profile pic, even though this might be really bad.

due to the rumours of one of our own dman going to col for a C

gillis has repeatly stated over and over again he wants a younger, bigger, stronger team

targets

Ryan o'reilly 6' 200ibs

or

paul stastny 6' 205ibs

both big guys with minimum playoff experience.

1st trade

to col

edler

gaunce

shinkaruk

1st

to van

O'reailly

or

edler

3rd

for

stastny

2nd

2nd trade

to cbj

weise

3rd

to van

boll

lineup

sedins burrows

sesito stastny/ROR kassian

higgins kesler hansen

boll richardson santorelli

hamhuis tanev

garrison bieksa

stanton corrado

lu

lack

Now hear me out on kesler being on being 3C. There were rumors of the canucks management wanting kesler playing 3C instead of 2C. This wasn't exlund but if i remember correctly it was one of the tsn dudes. The rumors happen in the summer and kesler has had he up and downs but for playoff success he is much more suitable for playing 3C. He is big, strong, plays with a edge, can fight, defensively sound and most importantly add offensive/scoring depth to our whole lineup.

kesler>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manny

value wise?

team needs?

would we do it?

would they?

thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I remember correctly, it'll cost over $6 million ($6.5 million?) to qualify Ryan O'Reilly...I don't think the rest of the players will respond too well to that, after taking a huge discount to stay in Vancouver.

Also, huge overpayment for Ryan O'Reilly.

That's exactly it...There is nobody on the Avs that fit our needs that they would be willing to move

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know you guys are saying overpayment for o' reilly but may I ask why?

he is a young player, big, skilled, decent contract(will expire but still decent), great 2 way player, he hasn't had great linemates just good prospects/young players for the most part, will be a key member of Colorado future core, hasn't even reach his protential

all for

a big skilled dman, who COULD POSSIBLY be a #1 dman on a different team, makes constant mistakes on d, injurly prome a bit lately,

I know cor needs d but from their side not for o'reilly

edler

gaunce

for

o reilly

3rd

remember our future C depth will be

horvat

o reilly

cassels

fox

schroeder

lain

dalpe

an old kesler

even if only 4-5 are good and the rest our bad I just don't see the purpose of keeping some C's prospect and col will want something more then a dman back, so give them gaunce who could be a really solid 3C with some protential to be a 2C.

makes sense and remember ROR is a beast we need

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know you guys are saying overpayment for o' reilly but may I ask why?

he is a young player, big, skilled, decent contract(will expire but still decent), great 2 way player, he hasn't had great linemates just good prospects/young players for the most part, will be a key member of Colorado future core, hasn't even reach his protential

all for

a big skilled dman, who COULD POSSIBLY be a #1 dman on a different team, makes constant mistakes on d, injurly prome a bit lately,

...

See, this is the issue with how you value Edler. Both Bieksa and Hamhuis (Hamhuis!) have more giveaways per game than Edler. Also, this is his first injury causing him to miss games since back surgery in 2011, so injury prone isn't correct at all. And here's where he ranks on real time stats (all per game to account for differences in games played) against our other D:

  • 1.96 hits (1st)
  • 2.46 blocks (1st)
  • 2.61 shots and 0.96 missed (2nd behind Garrison)
  • 0.39 takeaways (2nd behind Hamhuis)
  • 0.11 goals (tied for 1st with Garrison and Tanev)

He plays lots of minutes against tough competition so that we can use guys like Bieksa (our worst defenceman at turnovers by far) in more selective minutes. He was logging the most minutes per game before his injury, although Hamhuis and Bieksa have now passed him in that stat since they have to pick up the slack in his absence.

Edler might be underperforming offensively this year, but he should still be on fairly even value with O'Reilly. Considering they have the same cap hit now, but Edler is locked up for several years while O'Reilly has to be qualified at ~$6.5M for the team that has him to retain his RFA status this summer, that detracts from O'Reilly's value to compensate for Edler's production.

He's still a very good defenceman, you can't just discount him to the point where the rest of the package you originally included should get O'Reilly on it's own.

EDIT: and don't give me the "but you have to watch him play, not just look at stats" crap. I do watch him play and he really isn't worse on turnovers. Bieksa and Garrison have both had fairly recent, really bad turnovers resulting in goals - particularly at or near the end of the game.

EDIT2: Let's look at it in comparison to other NHL defenceman. I pulled up the top 6 defenders in giveaways this year. Here they are in order:

  1. Hjalmarsson
  2. Karlsson
  3. Byfuglien
  4. Doughty
  5. Franson
  6. Subban

Some pretty good names there, eh? Would you discount those guys for making "constant mistakes on d"? Karlsson had the famous achilles injury, is he injury prone now to further discount his value? Certainly I've seen a fair amount of proposals wanting Bufyglien, Franson and Subban here, and I'm pretty sure we couldn't lowball any of their teams for the reason's you've so badly discounted Edler.

Edler hits about as much as Byfuglien (more than Hjalmarsson, Karlsson and Subban but less than Doughty and Franson), blocks more than any of them, has more than half as many less giveaways than all of them, and better takeaways than Hjalmarsson, Doughty and Subban.

Edler projects to have a -9 giveaway/takeaway ratio. Compare that to:

  • Bieksa -49
  • Hamhuis -12
  • Hjalmarsson -80
  • Karlsson -33
  • Byfuglien -12
  • Doughty -73
  • Franson -37
  • Subban -63

Remind me again why he's so bad defensively? Hits and blocks shots, not too bad on giveaways as well; I just don't see it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See, this is the issue with how you value Edler. Both Bieksa and Hamhuis (Hamhuis!) have more giveaways per game than Edler. Also, this is his first injury causing him to miss games since back surgery in 2011, so injury prone isn't correct at all. And here's where he ranks on real time stats (all per game to account for differences in games played) against our other D:

  • 1.96 hits (1st)
  • 2.46 blocks (1st)
  • 2.61 shots and 0.96 missed (2nd behind Garrison)
  • 0.39 takeaways (2nd behind Hamhuis)
  • 0.11 goals (tied for 1st with Garrison and Tanev)

He plays lots of minutes against tough competition so that we can use guys like Bieksa (our worst defenceman at turnovers by far) in more selective minutes. He was logging the most minutes per game before his injury, although Hamhuis and Bieksa have now passed him in that stat since they have to pick up the slack in his absence.

Edler might be underperforming offensively this year, but he should still be on fairly even value with O'Reilly. Considering they have the same cap hit now, but Edler is locked up for several years while O'Reilly has to be qualified at ~$6.5M for the team that has him to retain his RFA status this summer, that detracts from O'Reilly's value to compensate for Edler's production.

He's still a very good defenceman, you can't just discount him to the point where the rest of the package you originally included should get O'Reilly on it's own.

EDIT: and don't give me the "but you have to watch him play, not just look at stats" crap. I do watch him play and he really isn't worse on turnovers. Bieksa and Garrison have both had fairly recent, really bad turnovers resulting in goals - particularly at or near the end of the game.

EDIT2: Let's look at it in comparison to other NHL defenceman. I pulled up the top 6 defenders in giveaways this year. Here they are in order:

  1. Hjalmarsson

  2. Karlsson

  3. Byfuglien

  4. Doughty

  5. Franson

  6. Subban

Some pretty good names there, eh? Would you discount those guys for making "constant mistakes on d"? Karlsson had the famous achilles injury, is he injury prone now to further discount his value? Certainly I've seen a fair amount of proposals wanting Bufyglien, Franson and Subban here, and I'm pretty sure we couldn't lowball any of their teams for the reason's you've so badly discounted Edler.

Edler hits about as much as Byfuglien (more than Hjalmarsson, Karlsson and Subban but less than Doughty and Franson), blocks more than any of them, has more than half as many less giveaways than all of them, and better takeaways than Hjalmarsson, Doughty and Subban.

Edler projects to have a -9 giveaway/takeaway ratio. Compare that to:

  • Bieksa -49
  • Hamhuis -12
  • Hjalmarsson -80
  • Karlsson -33
  • Byfuglien -12
  • Doughty -73
  • Franson -37
  • Subban -63

Remind me again why he's so bad defensively? Hits and blocks shots, not too bad on giveaways as well; I just don't see it.

tumblr_llbrtpDhMr1qint86o1_500_zps20a21e32.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...