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Carolina fan assessing the Canucks "cliffjumpers" and issues


Staal2Staal

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Just lovely! So, fans who don't agree with the OP are not "smart", don't understand hockey and are not true fans. I can read and respect the OP's point of view and still have doubts he is correct. I lack his confidence that the Sedins are still elite players and that this is just a slump. Maybe I'm wrong but that doesn't mean I (and so many others) don't know hockey or are not smart.

Insulting one's intelligence or putting them down with labels in an attempt to discredit their opinion is just ignorant and only degrades the discussion into a p!$$ing match.

I kind of think you are dumb

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Owner's greed is ruining hockey. The decision to expand to non-hockey markets was driven by the desire for expansion money not for the good of the game. As soon as they turned it into an entertainment business for the uninitiated, it was doomed to become a managed event.

Yeah, same for rock n' roll from the '60s & '70s..everything became commodified with the soul drained out of it. We might get info/hilites instantaneously(nowadays), but back in the day, this game(for me) was a Helluvalot more fun. Played, watched, ate, slept & breathed it in.

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Agreed with the general sentiment that fans here (myself included at times) don't know how to handle losing after such an extended period of winning. We were spoiled by the weak division and strong team that was this team for years, before guys started declining and the other teams got stronger.

However, to be frank, I have to disagree when you say

A lot of people have been hating on his brother as well. Daniel is going through a slump (I don't know how long, but I think it's like 90 days), and is a bit more worrisome considering their age. But I am 95% sure that his slump is directly related to Henrik being out and here's why: he is still the leading scorer on their team. That means their offense in general is pretty much dead... which is directly related to Henrik being out. These guys cannot set up for themselves and are having trouble without their centerpiece in the game.

Then you point to that as evidence of how Hank can facilitate. That is one thing that annoys me. Sure, they're both Sedins and it may have only been for this season that they both struggled after signing those new contracts, but like it is in the real world it should be here: if you can't produce to the extent that you're paid you should have to hear about it and be expected to improve (same goes with Burr).

If you're being paid $7 million and $4.5 million respectively, get playing time as the top line guys, are the team's leaders and have job security you should expect to hear and should even be motivated by criticism in your struggles, and you need to be able to step up and lead. They shouldn't be relying on Hank to set them up, they need to be the facilitators if they are also truly leaders worthy of the big bucks. Lastly, if they can't lead the charge maybe there's someone else in the roster who can, and I would suggest giving them the ice time to other, more capable guys (e.g. Higgins) to motivate these former elite gunners to find their form again. Adversity tends to bring out the best in true warriors, and I hope to see these guys show that side of them as they strive to regain their scoring form.

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Yeah, same for rock n' roll from the '60s & '70s..everything became commodified with the soul drained out of it. We might get info/hilites instantaneously(nowadays), but back in the day, this game(for me) was a Helluvalot more fun. Played, watched, ate, slept & breathed it in.

I hear ya!
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But I am 95% sure that his slump is directly related to Henrik being out and here's why: he is still the leading scorer on their team.

The problem isn't that Daniel is doing terrible - the problem is that he's playing in the top 70 instead of the top 7 forwards. That's quite a step down. Even with the rest of the team healthy, this is a significant production decrease. With the other injuries, it spells doom for the Canuck's performance. With healthier D-Men - they could sustain wins, enough to counterbalance Daniel's drop in production. With the D hurting and Daniel's drop, it's a recipe for disaster.

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First off, love the positivity of the thread!

But, you claim "pick up another winger"" threads are ridiculous. While the meat of your post goes on to claim that without Henrik, our team can't score. So would it really be that ridiculous to wish for another scoring forward, one who can create opportunities for us? Someone who doesn't rely on Henrik Sedin for all his offense?

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Its nice to see positivity from another fan base about the Canucks considering at one point they were considered the most hated team etc.

I agree with a couple of your points, however, I noticed you labeled Henrik as 'soft' not sure that label applies to him, I mean the guy played 8 or 9 consecutive seasons without getting hurt (technically, if they included playoff games his 'streak' would have quite a few more games than J-bo) and is usually playing along the boards, not typical areas where a soft player is seen.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with saying they are 2nd line players now. Sure its jumping the gun after one bad season but aside from a few elite level players (see Crosby, Gretzky, Lemieux etc etc) it is pretty normal for a player to become a second line threat when they hit their mid 30s, aside from the players mentioned there are a few that are the exception to the rule but it seems more often than not once a player hits 34 - 35 they typically start to slow down. I think the twins are borderline 1st liners but very good / great 2nd liners and to me that doesn't tarnish them one bit.

Honestly making the playoffs and not getting out of the 1st / 2nd round is only beneficial to the owner as it lines their pockets (granted the Aquaman pays quite a bit out on the team is a cap spending owner) but as a fan I have no problem supporting the team if they took a season or 2 to do a quick re-build / re-tool on the go (so yes it unfortunately means moving something to get something) to keep up being a good / strong team. What I don't want to see & I think what a lot of fans fear seeing is a team pre-west coast express that were just awful (96 - 97 to 01 - 02) if it means missing the playoffs for this year & next in order to grab some offensive minded prospects I think its for the better of the franchise. I don't want to see Gillis move a piece to pick up a Derek Roy like band aid that doesn't mesh well and doesn't do anything for the team.

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More like Quick was unbeatable.

They still put up a good fight.

Or we put up a ton of perimeter shots and hoped they would squeak through, as usual.

2nd in the west Blues were gone in 4 and 3rd in the west Coyotes in 5...So nope that team was stacked and redhot at the right time

How many teams are going to use us as stepping stones before the "redhot" excuse gets old. Do we have to magically become red hot like our December run to win a Cup? Or is this team just not built for the long haul.

Interesting. Winning now is meaningless. So, even if they manage to somehow turn it around after the break - which no one really knows for certain what will happen - they're still damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Not at all. Damned if they do, yes. Damned if they don't, of course not. If they don't succeed we have a legitimate shot at a top talent in this years draft who could potentially make an immediate impact in our roster whilst unloading Booth and perhaps another veteran this off-season. That is a fast retool which could provide the quick influx of youth our team needs to get going. I'm most certainly against being a marginal to average playoff team this year with an aging core that has the wheels falling off already at the halfway point of the year.

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How many teams are going to use us as stepping stones before the "redhot" excuse gets old. Do we have to magically become red hot like our December run to win a Cup? Or is this team just not built for the long haul.

Chicago had basically just as bad a January as we did...LA unless they mix it up run the risk of falling out of a playoff spot...So yes if a team gets on a roll at the right time they easily could win

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Than you're not a real fan. I hope Gillis' plan succeeds because, in theory, it's a very good one.

Absolutely never agreed with people who make up a definition for that word. Being a fan by definition just means you are an enthusiast of a team or individual. That doesn't mean fans aren't allowed to have their own views and opinions which can include wanting an event that sparks a change in the organization.

I am a Flyers fan, a real fan. But last season I wanted them to miss the playoffs and I wanted players like Bryz to struggle. This wasn't my notion from Day 1 of the season but when it became obvious that the team was not a cup contender and that Bryz was not the right goalie for that team. I did not not want them to come out and say well we made the playoffs but had injuries and Bryz did alright so we are going to give him another season... I felt it would be better if they just embarrassed themselves and went into that offseason saying ok enough is enough lets fix this team. This sparks Bryz and Briere getting bought out. Gagne gets shown the door. They go out and get a new 2nd line center and a new defenseman for the top pair. I look at this team now and I feel this is a much better outcome than making the playoffs and getting bumped and accepting mediocrity.

If you are a Canucks fan and you are not happy with the team or how the GM is running things than why not root for a result that will bring the change you feel the team would benefit most from? Personally I kind of agree with him. The Canucks aren't cup threats. They don't need playoff experience most of them have a lot already. Most are declining. The younger prospects are all teenagers and years away from noteworthy development. The GM is saying he doesn't see a problem. I personally don't see this team coming close to a cup this decade with the path they are on. But say the team chokes hard now and the fans really get in the faces of the front office about it then maybe that will change.

I fully believe part of being a fan is having awareness to the situation of a team and not accepting it silently. Failure and outrageous can humble GM's and owners to the mistakes that must be addressed with organizations.

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you mean there is nothing puzzling about how the fans in this city who want to chase out TWO franchise players in our team as soon as they are in a slump?

yep, nothing puzzling about this...

I love the sedins they will finish 1 and 2 in all time canucks scoring but a "slump is putting it very mildly. When u get 7M a year and go nearly 30% of the season without scoring, its not just a slump. He may not crack 50 pts unless he somehow turns it around

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I love the sedins they will finish 1 and 2 in all time canucks scoring but a "slump is putting it very mildly. When u get 7M a year and go nearly 30% of the season without scoring, its not just a slump. He may not crack 50 pts unless he somehow turns it around

players are human and sometimes there will be ups and downs. With this kind of ridiculous mentality, vancouver will not be able to hold onto any franchise players because the fans will turn on you in less than a season no matter what you have done.

What is a slump to you? the Sedins had been very consistent in the past and judging by their past stats, it is very easy to say that they will not stay this way for long.

But what do vancouver fans do? omg 6 of our starters are injured and there is a new coach with a new system in a new division playing 28 games in 60 days and the Sedins aren't scoring! trade them for a bag of pucks!

He may not crack 50 points, but even if that's the case, fans should let the players to figure their games out ESPECIALLY when it comes to established players such as the Sedins. But what do you guys do? you guys try to chase htem out of the freaking town 2/3 of the season.

this citizens in this city is suppose to be well educated, but yet some of the so call fans are just acting like those zealots in the dark ages.

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I love the sedins they will finish 1 and 2 in all time canucks scoring but a "slump is putting it very mildly. When u get 7M a year and go nearly 30% of the season without scoring, its not just a slump. He may not crack 50 pts unless he somehow turns it around

-Even elite players have "off" years.

-Hank's been playing injured for a good chunk of the year and is now out.

-Their regular line mate has been out most of the year with two injuries and since being back is playing with a face shield that is CLEARLY affecting his play.

-They have largely been playing with third and fourth liners with little/no chemistry with Burrows out.

-Our already questionable scoring depth prior to this season was hurt by both the cap going down and Santorelli's injury (allowing other teams to basically throw a wet blanket of defense over them).

-Daniel may also be playing hurt.

There's really quite a few, very logical reasons as to why this has not been a good year for them. Those same reasons would also tend to suggest that given some of those things get corrected, they'll be back to (or close to) their old selves.

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it is a slump and the worse slump the canucks have been in. fans have a right to be upset, especially when management slides everything under the rug and refuses to see problems this team has. when things don't go well you try and fix the problem.. torts believes he is doing things correctly by running his players to the max... this team isn't use to that... just that simple. This team is just not good enough enhance why torts has to ride his top players... gilles sits back and does nothing once again... i don't get why fans have to be chewed out or up set when the team is losing.... no changes are being made to fix the situation. FANS HAVE A RIGHT TO BE UPSET AND VOICE THERE OPINION. HOCKEY PLAYERS GET PAID A TON OF MONEY TO PUT UP WITH THE CRITICS BOTH THE GOOD AND THE BAD TIMES...

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