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[Discussion] If Canucks decide to rebuild, they can cash in & be set big time


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***Here me out first people. This is strictly a hypothetical assumption if Canuck management decides they are better off preparing for the future than with the current team. I am not by any means saying do any of this but more so am saying imagine how set we can be if the team decided to rebuild/extreme retool and did it the right way.***

Now, if teams are really eagerly calling to acquire Canuck players considering the situation the Canucks are in, it could make for some drama. Now don't say a rebuild/extreme retool isn't possible; if offers are that good, it would be stupid if management totally ignored them and there's always a door open to make anything happen. This is assuming teams are frantically calling to become a true contender and upgrade to push them over the top, and are pressuring MG into a situation where it'd make zero sense if he declined. MG has a record of making moves under pressure and not getting the best bang for buck but this is totally different. Teams aren't going to try to low-ball MG; this time they'll be giving high offers bidding between one another to get our top guys and the return can be invaluable. With that, here's something to think about if we traded just Kesler and Edler.

Ryan Kesler

Taking the Mike Richards trade as a template, Richards in exchange got a young, proven roster player (Simmonds), a top guaranteed to succeed prospect (B.Schenn), and a high pick (2nd rounder). Kesler can get a similar return as he and Richards are almost the same players and have the same style of play. Why do I value Kesler more? Teams will be bidding for him unlike where Philly just traded him out of the blue, and coming off a terrific Olympic performance being USA's #1 centre, his value is sky high.

Tweaking the Richards deal, Kes can get a young proven roster player, a top prospect guaranteed to succeed, and a 1st round pick easily. Here are some packages as a rough estimate that we could possibly get:

1.) Kes for Derek Stepan (young roster player), Chris Kreider (top prospect), 1st rounder.

2.) Kes for Wayne Simmonds (young roster player), Sean Couturier (top prospect), 1st rounder.

3.) Kes for Boone Jenner (young roster player), Ryan Murray (top prospect), 2nd rounder.

4.) Kes for Brandon Sutter (young roster player), Olli Maatta (top prospect), 1st/2nd rounder.

5.) Kes for Nick Leddy (young roster player), Brandon Saad (top prospect), 1st rounder.

...all these packages are invaluable. What makes it better is that teams will be willing to pay the price to get Kesler too so it's not just a 100% fantasy. All these packages, we get a young roster player/top prospect to replace Kesler, another young roster player/top prosect to add on, and then a top pick. This is the extent some teams will go so if an offer like that comes, it'd be pretty hard for the Canucks not to accept. Now I'm not saying ship away Kes, I'm a huge supporter and would rather they get a player for him, but this is the scenario a rebuild takes part.

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Ok, some of us have been writing this for months. Either push us at the Stanley cup or rip it down and get as many assets as we can for our star players.

The best deal for Kesler would be to Columbus for Wennberg, Jenner and their first in 2015. Its a good situation for Ryan . He also went to Ohio state and its close to home.

For Alex Edler there are 2 destinations. Pittsburg and Long Island. The Penguins could give us Polliut for him straight up. The islanders can give us Reinhart straight up.

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For Alex Edler there are 2 destinations. Pittsburg and Long Island. The Penguins could give us Polliut for him straight up. The islanders can give us Reinhart straight up.

That's a very low rate of return imo. Thing is, if you trade Edler and only get 1 piece which is a prospect and no other certainty involved, you rather hold onto him at that point cause he's still a very solid player. That's why I came up with the op...that's the value roughly which they are worth trading for and only then. Otherwise, you rather keep the gold you have.

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Ok, some of us have been writing this for months. Either push us at the Stanley cup or rip it down and get as many assets as we can for our star players.

The best deal for Kesler would be to Columbus for Wennberg, Jenner and their first in 2015. Its a good situation for Ryan . He also went to Ohio state and its close to home.

For Alex Edler there are 2 destinations. Pittsburg and Long Island. The Penguins could give us Polliut for him straight up. The islanders can give us Reinhart straight up.

Not bad proposals, but I want more hard assists. We have too many projects on this team. If we acquire young players, they should be semi established players already...

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***Here me out first people. This is strictly a hypothetical assumption if Canuck management decides they are better off preparing for the future than with the current team. I am not by any means saying do any of this but more so am saying imagine how set we can be if the team decided to rebuild/extreme retool and did it the right way.***

Now, if teams are really eagerly calling to acquire Canuck players considering the situation the Canucks are in, it could make for some drama. Now don't say a rebuild/extreme retool isn't possible; if offers are that good, it would be stupid if management totally ignored them and there's always a door open to make anything happen. This is assuming teams are frantically calling to become a true contender and upgrade to push them over the top, and are pressuring MG into a situation where it'd make zero sense if he declined. MG has a record of making moves under pressure and not getting the best bang for buck but this is totally different. Teams aren't going to try to low-ball MG; this time they'll be giving high offers bidding between one another to get our top guys and the return can be invaluable. With that, here's something to think about if we traded just Kesler and Edler.

Ryan Kesler

Taking the Mike Richards trade as a template, Richards in exchange got a young, proven roster player (Simmonds), a top guaranteed to succeed prospect (B.Schenn), and a high pick (2nd rounder). Kesler can get a similar return as he and Richards are almost the same players and have the same style of play. Why do I value Kesler more? Teams will be bidding for him unlike where Philly just traded him out of the blue, and coming off a terrific Olympic performance being USA's #1 centre, his value is sky high.

Tweaking the Richards deal, Kes can get a young proven roster player, a top prospect guaranteed to succeed, and a 1st round pick easily. Here are some packages as a rough estimate that we could possibly get:

1.) Kes for Derek Stepan (young roster player), Chris Kreider (top prospect), 1st rounder.

2.) Kes for Wayne Simmonds (young roster player), Sean Couturier (top prospect), 1st rounder.

3.) Kes for Boone Jenner (young roster player), Ryan Murray (top prospect), 2nd rounder.

4.) Kes for Brandon Sutter (young roster player), Olli Maatta (top prospect), 1st/2nd rounder.

5.) Kes for Nick Leddy (young roster player), Brandon Saad (top prospect), 1st rounder.

...all these packages are invaluable. What makes it better is that teams will be willing to pay the price to get Kesler too so it's not just a 100% fantasy. All these packages, we get a young roster player/top prospect to replace Kesler, another young roster player/top prosect to add on, and then a top pick. This is the extent some teams will go so if an offer like that comes, it'd be pretty hard for the Canucks not to accept. Now I'm not saying ship away Kes, I'm a huge supporter and would rather they get a player for him, but this is the scenario a rebuild takes part.

Alex Edler

Taking the Alex Goligoski trade as a template, Goligoski in exchange got a proven roster player as a lesser replacement (Matt Niskanen), and a young top line player (James Neal). Edler can get a bigger return as he is a better player than what Goligoski was at the time. Teams will especially pay up for him coming off a terrific Olympic performance being on Sweden's #1 dpair with Karlsson, in his prime, his value is up there as well.

Tweaking the Goligoski deal, Edler can get a legit top forward/grade A forward prospect, a lesser D replacement, and a 1st. Here are some packages as a rough estimate that we could possibly get:

1.) Edler for Anthony Mantha/Tomas Tatar (top F prospect), Brendan Smith (replacement), 1st rounder.

2.) Edler for Emerson Etem (top F prospect), Francois Beauchemin (replacement), 1st rounder, cond. mid pick.

3.) Edler for Jeff Skinner (top forward), Andrej Sekera (replacement), maybe late pick.

4.) Edler for Ryan O'Reilly (top forward), Tyson Barrie (replacement), maybe late pick..

5.) Edler for Evander Kane (top forward), Grant Clitsome (replacement), maybe late pick.

6.) Edler for Curtis Lazar (top F prospect), Patrick Wiercioch (replacement), 1st round pick.

...all these packages are invaluable. Teams will be willing to pay the price to get Edler if they are needy so it's possible. All these packages, we get a talented forward whether it be a NHLer or a top prospect, a lesser dman replacement, and then a top pick. This is the extent some teams will go so if an offer like that comes, it'd be pretty hard for the Canucks not to accept.

That's a lot of assets we can gain and ultimately if just both those guys traded for something along the lines of that template, we can get a young roster player(F/D), top prospect (D/F), a top forward/a top forward prospect, a dman replacement, and ontop of it all a 1st rounder and possibly another 1st round pick or a mid round pick. That'd make us younger atm, keep us competitive, give us a lot of future, and an abundance of picks in this years draft to stock up on.

Lot's of possibility and if they were traded due to a lot of interest from teams, we could juice out a lot in return...again, saying hypothetically and most the people on these boards know I would rather trade Edler and get a forward for Kesler to play with. But this being a armGM proposal...lot's of potential gold awaiting if this was the case.

I would have to echo this entirely

And here is the addendum or add on to this whole argument.

A failing edmonton team made it out of 3 #1 overall picks with Hall Nuge and Takupov....seriously have to hate that luck when they could have done so much better in retrospect.

If we are to go this route we also have the option of trading Luongo for a 1st and possible prospect A or B level.

At this point we now have multiple picks/prospects coming back for 3 players. but here is where it gets good.

Next year we now have a serious chance at a top 5 overall pick unless all of a sudden all our prospects and picks pan out into genuine studs and Lack is a god in net. A genuine shot at a top tier elite prospect in MacDavid.

keeping with this line of reasoning. 2015/2016 or the 2016 draft as well gives us a run at Jakob Chychrun who projects to be a freak of nature on skates at the D position

For this last 22 games or half season of abject failure and accepted rebuild. And then 2 seasons of putting it together with a solid group of vets, journeymen and rookies we have a solid chance at being competitive in 2 seasons or less and genuine chances at top tier elite prospects.

Accepting this as fact and moving forward with this is beyond wildly intriguing and very attractive. Watching the dismantling of the 94 team, seeing everyone sold off for literally nothing or walking for less was brutal. Then watching Keenan just grind this team into nothing while drafting so poorly and doing nothing in regards to trades outside of Linden buried this team

we have a chance to do this right in 2 seasons or less. By 2015/2016 or at the latest 2016/2017 we can be a power in the league again, compete for a decade or longer and be a serious threat every single year

If this is not a viable option now when our best trade chips are at their all time highest value for return....than what IS a viable option?

continuing with the same core, older, slower and with a lesser supporting cast? Relying on them the same way the Oilers did after 06? the same way the Flames did 04?

I don't want to see my team fail. but I also do not want to see an abject slide into mediocrity if it means staying there fighting for the middle for years. When we could just accept the inevitable and rip that band aid off fast and be back in contention in 2 seasons or less.

Why not do it?

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Proposals 2,3, and 4 would be magic for Kesler. Edler you overvalued a bit too much.

Thanks for your opinion, guess I wasn't too off was I?

I would have to echo this entirely

we have a chance to do this right in 2 seasons or less. By 2015/2016 or at the latest 2016/2017 we can be a power in the league again, compete for a decade or longer and be a serious threat every single year

If this is not a viable option now when our best trade chips are at their all time highest value for return....than what IS a viable option?

continuing with the same core, older, slower and with a lesser supporting cast? Relying on them the same way the Oilers did after 06? the same way the Flames did 04?

I don't want to see my team fail. but I also do not want to see an abject slide into mediocrity if it means staying there fighting for the middle for years. When we could just accept the inevitable and rip that band aid off fast and be back in contention in 2 seasons or less.

Why not do it?

Thanks to you too. This is what I'm trying to get at. We can either turn the ship around by adding to the team and getting a proper supporting cast for Kesler and etc or we can build a completely new ship. New ship seems more viable but then there's also the chance we can add to our current team properly. If we can, we have a shot and if they don't ultimately get to the goal, we miss out on all this.

...don't think most people realize this, but choosing the path will be the biggest decision this team will make this decade by far. Has a major crippling effect on the coming years and it's a tough choice. Me personally, I'd give Kes that forward and if it doesn't work out, go with the OP and build a new ship and become a powerhouse.

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Thanks for your opinion, guess I wasn't too off was I?

Thanks to you too. This is what I'm trying to get at. We can either turn the ship around by adding to the team and getting a proper supporting cast for Kesler and etc or we can build a completely new ship. New ship seems more viable but then there's also the chance we can add to our current team properly. If we can, we have a shot and if they don't ultimately get to the goal, we miss out on all this.

...don't think most people realize this, but choosing the path will be the biggest decision this team will make this decade by far. Has a major crippling effect on the coming years and it's a tough choice. Me personally, I'd give Kes that forward and if it doesn't work out, go with the OP and build a new ship and become a powerhouse.

People keep posting we need to get better and younger. Then they say the following

Don't trade him

Can't trade him

He's worthless in my opinion

If we trade Kesler we need a top 6 winger to fill his spot, a top 2 center to fill his spot and STILL need a top 6 player for the twins.

If we trade Edler we still need a puck moving d man, and a big solid presence on the blue line capable of eating 20+ minutes a game, 40+ points a season, shot blocking hitting etc.

1 trade does nothing but create more holes. It is time to accept the inevitable and do what needs to be done and do it right. Now is the time. After olympics Kesler, Edler and in the off season Luongo can net us the return we need. We can suck at the right time in very talented drafts in 2015/2016 and still have a solid core of vets for when we are ready to compete again.

Unsure why people keep denying this is a proper road to go down, let alone why they keep saying we can do it with this core...

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@RealKyper

Early indication from one #NHL club say #Canucks ask for Kesler may include as many as 3 pieces. A 1st rd pick, roster player/ prospect.

Dejavu...practically what I just said. For Kesler, young roster player, top prospect, and a 1st...always a possibility.

Also: discusses Ryan Johansen. Bobs words were basically, "if Johansen's not available. Keslers not going there". Same for any team. Gillis won't give him away, Kesler is valuable despite being injured often.

If teams want Kes, we need top value in return otherwise no budging. I'm guessing if CBJ wants Kes, they either have to give up Ryan Johansen, prospect, and a 2nd or Jenner, Murray, and a 2nd. Both potentially huge packages. Puts into perspective Kesler's value and this is only the beginning. Wait until it gets to trade deadline, teams will be offering Kesler's weight in gold !

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Dejavu...practically what I just said. For Kesler, young roster player, top prospect, and a 1st...always a possibility.

Also: discusses Ryan Johansen. Bobs words were basically, "if Johansen's not available. Keslers not going there". Same for any team. Gillis won't give him away, Kesler is valuable despite being injured often.

If teams want Kes, we need top value in return otherwise no budging. I'm guessing if CBJ wants Kes, they either have to give up Ryan Johansen, prospect, and a 2nd or Jenner, Murray, and a 2nd. Both potentially huge packages. Puts into perspective Kesler's value and this is only the beginning. Wait until it gets to trade deadline, teams will be offering Kesler's weight in gold !

Jenner Murray....i'd consider that trade alone really. Adding in a 2nd just makes me salivate. Consider then edler to Det for Mantha and a 1st or the Islanders for Strome or Reinhart and a 1st and now we are talking bona fide rebuild while taking care of significant area's of need
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Why not do it?

Because too many people are emotionally attached to this current group of players and what could have been. The thought of moving anyone significant that was involved in the failed Cup effort of yore makes people face's contort all sorts of ways. If you strip emotional attachment to the players and just cheer for the team, you would see the merits of moving core players in deals that can improve the team. Most of the assets on this team have peaked and are now diminshing in value. The smart business decision is to move them now before further erosion of their value. Or you can believe on a hope and a prayer that the stars align and this aging core makes one last kick at the can.

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Been pushing this line of thinking since before last season.

Honestly, I love this team but I find it hard to watch them now.

I can handle losing in the short term if there's a vision and visible direction. Give me the next crop of young kids that we can watch develop and grow over the coming years. And as you guys have mentioned, IF Gillis plays his cards right, we could have a lot to get excited about in the coming years.

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I was firmly in the 'Do Not Trade Kesler' camp, however I have had a change of heart. Trading Kesler allows the Canucks to acquire some young, high end skill, a useful roster player, and a draft pick. All of these pieces help the Canucks return to being dominant in the next 2-3 years which should ultimately be the goal of management, to get the Sedins at least one more legit shot at a Cup run before they retire.

I'd love an one of deals 2, 3, or 4

Very nice post, RR.

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^thanks, and I was in the same boat too. Realized after you take out the emotional component of losing Kesler, that teams will be willing to pay the maximum price and that max price will be one you just have to take cause it makes the team a lot better and sets them up. Hard to imagine Kes gone but if it happens and we get the proper return, it'll sink in and make plenty of sense.

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A good trade of a high value player sets you up perfectly to be competitive for years. 3 for 1's are just soo valuable.

Anaheim is so rich in assets, and a lot of the really good teams have tremendous depth from moving the right players at the right time for great value.

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Kesler

1. No way NY does this. Stepan was point per game last year, and Kesler has never done that in his career.

2. I don't think Philly does this, but the value is close.

3. Columbus trade is a good one, I like it.

4. Decent trade, maybe switch Sutter with Bennett or Maata with Pouliot if we want to.

5. Good trade, Leddy and Saad are the types of players we need.

Edler

I will start off by saying that the Goligoski trade was the most lopsided trade in recent memory. You can't really use it as a template.

1. Decent trade, maybe switch 1st rounder to 2nd

The rest of them: Edler is overvalued quite a bit.

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We overvalue our players too much

Kesler has a ton of value. You look at the type of return players like him get as a deadline deal as rentals and I think that's what you're expecting for him. Keep in mind though, he's on a super reasonable contract for a player of his caliber and still has two years left on it. This increases his value substantially.

Edler is a top four defenseman who Sweden saw fit to put on their top pair. Clearly it isn't just us that sees that there is a lot that he is capable of. Teams searching for someone to round out their top four would definitely pay a premium for him if (for no other reason) only because not many people are selling d-men that can play top minutes anymore.

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