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Do you trust MG to make a good Kesler trade?


grandmaster

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Don't get me wrong, he did a good job setting us up for the cup run. His trade for Ehrhoff was brilliant, getting Torres and Lapierre for the run was also excellent foresight. Getting players like the Sedins, Burrows, and the D-core to sign for relatively cheap in a money hungry market was very good on his part. Issue is now, those players played well so Gillis rewards them with a big contract to compensate them for their good job, only thing is now, they are getting paid for all the great work they did while we had a good team. Once the team got worse, the Sedins and Burrows are getting paid more, but are no longer able to produce the same when we had Ehrhoff, Salo, Malhotra and Torres backing them up (especially on the PP where most of our goals came from). Our 2011 bread and butter was our PP, and we got rid of our PP specialists! Like I said before, we can argue until we are blue that Ehrhoff was only about money, but he made that PP work well. Since when did money become such a big issue for this franchise anyways? I'll tell you it wasn't money or term that was the issue, it was Gillis and his self imposed rules about signing players long term or to signing players to larger contracts then the Sedins. Rules need to be broken sometimes for the greater good. I think this rule was his downfall. When you get a player who makes you win a lot, you sign him, period.

You are right, I think with the right trade, this team can be turned around. But it has to be the right trade, and some other things need to be done to this roster to bolster it up, I don't think it needs a rebuild, but I think this year we just need to pack our bags early and just hope for a top 10 pick, maybe we will get lucky and draft a better version of CoHo.

I've been trying to express this without being a dick for years now. Good job. It's so easy to criticize on the internet, and somewhat unfair but in this fourm it really is a what have you done for me lately mode. In this case all the things you said are true.

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And by the way, re. the Hodgson/Kassian trade:

That trade should have helped this team re-compete for the Cup... we needed a player who could perform right away.

We didn't get that player in Kassian, and that's why the trade was a failure. Kassian is two years away from performing at a Cup level, if he ever gets there. Gillis should have known that, and looked for another exchange... we needed a veteran scorer who could have made an impact right then... Steve Ott for example.

Hodgson was performing, and maybe people didn't like him, but his goals would have been welcome in the last two years... and he would have scored more here than in Buffalo, which is the worst team in the league offensively.

I agree with the first part. Hodgson should have been traded for more immediate help at the time.

But the 2nd part... Hodgson has been getting all sorts of sweet ice time with first Vanek and now Moulson, and has been disappointing. Why do you assume he'd be better here? Because he had a great January years ago?

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Perhaps the demand for Ryan Kesler will teach the childish imbecilic fans of vancouver how valuable this player really is for once....

Sid wants him, Kane wants him, every playoff team wants him...why? because he is a player that can put a team over the top to win a cup...

hmmm

maybe if we want to win a cup...we need ryan kesler?

I think we need a few Sids/Kanes more.

Our team was already lacking offensive depth, and now our key guys are in decline. We need to get younger and deeper to have a shot. That will take either a LOT of time, or a couple assets and less time.

Having said that, if people think that Sedins and Burrows are never going to score again, they are sorely mistaken. I think they come back next year as AT LEAST a great 1A/2nd line. But we need to build a whole 1/1B line. Those types of players either have to be drafted, or cost a king's ransom (as we are seeing right now).

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Have there been mistakes? Sure.

Has the plan changed a few times... Yes.

Is he learning? Sometimes.

Is being successful as a GM kind of like being able to win at roulette? Yes.

Is there a plan now and is it consistent? Yes.

I am no fan of how Lu was treated, and the Schneider deal - I thought the window was still potentially open before that trade. However, there is a method to the madness, this has been a stealth rebuild since that trade. Maybe before? I do like the fact he seems to be rebuilding and it might cost him his job - I respect that.

I trust him to get a good return because this time his valuation of his own player is high but justified - there is no overvaluation like the Lu trade talks.

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Anyone else hear Jeremy Roenick's interview on Team 1040 from earlier tonight?

J.R. said that he spoke with Kesler during the Sochi games. At that time, to paraphrase J.R., Kesler expressed that he's 100% committed to the Vancouver Canucks and that he loves the city, loves the fans here, and feels a deep sense of loyalty to his teammates. According to Roenick, and this is based on what was said during their one-on-one conversation, it would be very difficult to imagine Kesler ever asking the Canucks for a trade.

Compare that to the Sochi report where a guy tweets that Kesler was overheard at some bar saying he wants out of Vancouver and was supposedly naming potential trade destinations. Later, that guy admitted that his "source" came 2nd or 3rd hand (basically someone told him that they talked to someone who heard from someone else that they'd heard Kesler say these things).

Somehow, I'm more inclined to believe Roenick's version of things.

I mean, J.R. has no reason to lie about this. In fact, he's generally pretty anti-Canucks and he had some choice words for the organization and its handling of Luongo/Lack (during the same interview). He has no problem stirring the pot, especially when it comes to the Canucks. But in the case of Kesler, Roenick seemed pretty sincere when he suggested that the trade request story makes zero sense based on what he's been told directly by Kesler.

As for the Louis Jean report, it's never passed the sniff test for me. Basically, the story is that Kesler asked for a trade prior to the 2013-14 NHL season. But for some strange reason, the original "source" just held on to this information for half a year? Nothing reported until we're getting close to the trade deadline (and just coming off of the spotlight of the Olympics)? Seems a little too well-timed.

Now I'm not going to say that the Canucks haven't been listening to offers on Kesler. I'm even inclined to believe that they've been active in discussions. The team's in serious trouble and they need to consider every option. Kesler is their most valuable asset and it only makes sense for them to consider a trade.

But I'm feeling more and more like Kesler and his agent were actually telling the truth when they denied these rumours.

So do I trust MG to make a good Kesler trade?

It depends. I'm not even sure that Kesler is willing to waive his NTC.

I put zero stock in the tweets reporting that a list of teams has been submitted. Maybe it's true. Maybe not.

Like I've been saying over and over: these "insiders" have nothing to lose when they fabricate stories. If Kesler gets moved, they'll be able to claim that they had "sources" that predicted the outcome. If nothing happens, they can use the tired old "MG's asking price was too high" story and run with another ever-popular item about "the futility and blunders of the Vancouver Canucks."

These guys have all the angles covered. Whatever happens with Kesler, the "insiders" will maintain that their "sources" were accurate.

But if Kesler does get moved, my suspicion is that MG's fingers will have been all over the build-up to the trade (including the timing and substance of the rumours). And if Gillis has the stones to plant a "trade demand" story and toy with Kesler's reputation, then hopefully he also has what's required to get a pretty good return on this asset.

My gut feeling, however, is that the trade deadline passes with Kesler remaining a Vancouver Canuck.

Excellent post. Another dynamic that often fails to be mentioned is the owner's perspective in all of this. If there is even the remotest chance of the Canucks making the playoffs this year then it would be absolute folly to trade Ryan now. How many millions do the owners get per playoff game that goes directly in their pockets ? It makes more sense to wait until the draft. Do I trust MG to get the right deal ? I think he has just as much of a chance to "get lucky" as any other gm would when making a deal that would probably include multiple prospects that will probably take years to be judged as success's or failures

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The problem is those discounts only matter of you can take advantage of them. Sure we saved 6-7 million, but we also had Luongo's 5.3 (or Cory's 4) sitting on the bench and Ballards 4.2 sitting in the pressbox every single game. So we weren't really at an advantage at all. The players who took a discount did so for no real good reason, not only that, they got to see their money and that cap go to someone who didn't even want to be there (Luongo). They have been playing at a disadvantage and for less money pretty much the whole time. Remember this has been going on for a long time, years even! Luongo is still on this team somehow, eating cap space on the bench, kind of disheartening wouldn't you say? For him and the other Canucks That all lies on Gillis.

well like I said i have a 100% faith in him. we will have to agree to disagree. his overall record speaks for itself. although he's not perfect, the luongo contract is not the best, (bad in terms of length) but still. no one is perfect. Keith Ballard trade was a good one at the time. It made us better right away. so I cannot fault gillis on that, we also got him before we signed Hamhius who we all thought was going to sign in Philladelphia. the players taking a discount was their detication to the team. (sorry typing on my iphone now) anyways I have a 100% faith in him. although this season is a disaster, i have 100% faith in him.

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^ this

Gillis has to finally realize that making a trade is different then negotiating a players contract. Agent tactics simply don't work because contract negotiations are one on one, trades, meantime, allow GMs multi sources and opportunities to get what they want.

Being an agent allows you to wait it out but GMs don't have that luxery.

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