bongo4420 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 It's clear what's happening here. The organization is setting up Torts as the fall man for their gross incompetence. The organizations lead propagandists in the media (Botch and Gallagher) are now on a full out offensive against Torts. You will see a continual onslaught from these two over the next month. The funniest part is that Gallagher is once again blaming Nonis for Gillis failures. Really? You must be DESPERATE. After the firing MG and Aquilnii will hold a year end presser filled with nothing but excuses (like they do EVERY year) They will lay all the blame for their failures on everyone and everything but themselves. (like they do EVERY year) Their mistakes are NEVER their fault. This summit of excuses will be followed up by the signing of a few marginal free agents. They will then claim a massive rebuild has been completed and this team is ready to make a run for the Cup. The Canuck's will then proceed to have their worst season in 20 years. Of course the management team will sit on their hands while this team crashes and burns. If you think it's bad now just wait until you see this team after another year of ROT. You've seen nothing yet. They will then repeat the same cycle of blame and excuses they trot out every year. It will be deja vu all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Maybe Aquilini wants to tank for Mcdavid, and is keeping that a secret? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Yup, they're trying to shift blame over to Torts a lot, blaming the Calgary lockerroom fiasco and such. But it was a total team fail when they got smoked by Anaheim a few games prior and then shut down and banged-up by Phoenix after that. That was after the 'moral victory' against LA. Torts challenged them and they failed. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, given what has taken place with this team since their huge playoff loss in 2011. Do people have short memories? What exactly would a different coach do with this group? They failed with AV. They're failing with Torts. They're going to simply fail some more with another coach. Why? Because of the players we have available. And that's on Gillis, the scouting and player development departments. And it's going to get worse before it gets better, folks. But that's good, because they NEED to replace their franchise players via the draft. The worst possible thing they could do is pretend that this core can still do it, and then do something crazy like trade high 1st rounders away for some young castoff scorer. But hey, what do I know? I've only seen multiple occurences of the same kinda fails and have accurately predicted future fails based on them. ps. Why do we have to act like drafting is freakin' rocket science? You have to purposely try to be the worst at it and on that end we've been really great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 ps. Why do we have to act like drafting is freakin' rocket science? You have to purposely try to be the worst at it and on that end we've been really great. Drafting/our prospect pool has VASTLY improved since Gillis got here, especially the last few years where he 1) wasn't JUST hired 2) had come to the conclusion we were moving from a "win now" philosophy to a "start restocking" philosophy. There certainly is an age gap between the current core and the future one but that has more to do with drafting pre-Gillis and pushing for a cup in his first few seasons (almost got one in fact!). Due to that, this year (and likely next) are going to be a bumpy ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 That, my friend, has yet to be determined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 That, my friend, has yet to be determined. Nope. We have a vastly improved prospect pool. There's little/no argument against that. What is TBD is whether that can translate to serviceable/high end NHL talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 We always need a scapegoat here. No one realizes that it takes a whole bunch of people to make a team successful or responsible if/when they plummet. Again, I'll say it: there is no I in team. Sure, there's management. Owners. Players. But they each have a hand in this and equally share the blame as well as the success. I don't know why a finger must always be pointed. Be careful what you wish for..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I would be referring to actualized NHL capability though. That's what's important. Why should team philosophies even matter when it comes to drafting? Drafting is the most important part of team-building and replenishing, regardless of philosophy. I realize that patience is required here, but at the same time Gillis has pulled off the same kinda 'outside the box' draft blunders that Nonis did. And honestly, the best pick he made, Hodgson, he made when he first got here, so how is lack of experience an excuse? Do examine current fail, you need not look beyond the past fails at the draft table. Now we have a huge talent hole to be filled if the Canucks want to salvage this group and it's going to take trading away our upcoming great first rounders for immediate help to do it. That's my own speculation, but imho if that happens that is piling more even more fail on top of the huge pile of existing fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Yay! Another thinly veiled fire Gillis thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmania Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Yay! Another thinly veiled fire Gillis thread! Maybe the thread title should be scapegoats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I would be referring to actualized NHL capability though. That's what's important. Why should team philosophies even matter when it comes to drafting? Drafting is the most important part of team-building and replenishing, regardless of philosophy. I realize that patience is required here, but at the same time Gillis has pulled off the same kinda 'outside the box' draft blunders that Nonis did. And honestly, the best pick he made, Hodgson, he made when he first got here, so how is lack of experience an excuse? Do examine current fail, you need not look beyond the past fails at the draft table. Now we have a huge talent hole to be filled if the Canucks want to salvage this group and it's going to take trading away our upcoming great first rounders for immediate help to do it. That's my own speculation, but imho if that happens that is piling more even more fail on top of the huge pile of existing fail. It is but there's no way of knowing the future. We have a better prospect pool. That should translate to to more/better NHL players. It matters because when you perceive your mere steps away from competing for a cup you trade future promise for current ability. All teams do it. I don't consider Hodgson to be his best pick personally. But outside of that year we've also not had any picks that high until trading for New Jersey's last year. Is it really that surprising our highest pick in his tenure (until Horvat) would be one of the better players? And no, I'd say that his lack of experience/unfamiliarity with his scouts etc had more to do with who he picked in the later rounds that year. First rounders are far less of a crap shoot. Later rounds is where good scouting/player assessment comes in to play more so. I don't see that happening at all. Either we continue with the re-tool (trading off/not re-signing redundancy to make room for youth) and propping up the main pieces . Or if Kes does indeed want out, he's merely the first domino to fall of the NTC's/core and will surely signal a full rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLemming Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Every one of these threads is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Do we have a better prospect pool though? When Gillis came into town, we had Grabner, Bourdon, Raymond, Schneider, and Edler. What, that's it? Now we have Lack, Markstrom, Kassian, Horvat, Shink, Jensen, Gaunce, Fox, Cassels, Stanton, Dalpe, Schroeder, Lain, Grenier, Archibald, etc. etc. etc. Okay, yeah, we have a better prospect pool. Rather, we have a prospect pool now, when before it was a collection of guys who had to do it on their own to succeed. So in that light, Gillis and Faq have improved things around here. Have to admit that perspective is nice to see. But there will still be complaints on some obvious blunders. Not to mention our competition is doing quite well in this regard, so there's no edge with merely having a prospect pool anymore. There is potential here though. So if indeed the current plan pans out, it could be glorious. But I think we're still a few key pieces and a few years away from doing anything special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Do we have a better prospect pool though? When Gillis came into town, we had Grabner, Bourdon, Raymond, Schneider, and Edler. What, that's it? Now we have Lack, Markstrom, Kassian, Horvat, Shink, Jensen, Gaunce, Fox, Cassels, Stanton, Dalpe, Schroeder, Lain, Grenier, Archibald, etc. etc. etc. Okay, yeah, we have a better prospect pool. Rather, we have a prospect pool now, when before it was a collection of guys who had to do it on their own to succeed. So in that light, Gillis and Faq have improved things around here. Have to admit that perspective is nice to see. But there will still be complaints on some obvious blunders. Not to mention our competition is doing quite well in this regard, so there's no edge with merely having a prospect pool anymore. There is potential here though. So if indeed the current plan pans out, it could be glorious. But I think we're still a few key pieces and a few years away from doing anything special. Yup. Now you're coming around My guess is that our next best shot since 2011 (if things go well) will be in the 2015/2016 season. We still have our main core kicking around and we should have a good few prospects bolstering depth (with 1-2 years of experience) along with UFA signings thanks to the rising cap. That SHOULD be a very deep team. If it doesn't happen, Kesler, Bieksa and Hamhuis are all on expiring contracts with a lot more of the current core following the year after and the one after that. THAT is when the full re-build begins IMO and we start building for the next wave. (And it will likely suck for a couple years then too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMR Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 This team has not evolved in players, so the blame clearly falls on the GM office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The fragile, no, broken personalities in this clown rodeo all have NTC's. Gillis is responsible for this mess. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongo4420 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Do we have a better prospect pool though? When Gillis came into town, we had Grabner, Bourdon, Raymond, Schneider, and Edler. What, that's it? Now we have Lack, Markstrom, Kassian, Horvat, Shink, Jensen, Gaunce, Fox, Cassels, Stanton, Dalpe, Schroeder, Lain, Grenier, Archibald, etc. etc. etc. Okay, yeah, we have a better prospect pool. Rather, we have a prospect pool now, when before it was a collection of guys who had to do it on their own to succeed. Ummmmmmm. Your lists are comparing apples to oranges. In your first list you ONLY list players that have made a substantial impact at the NHL level (you also forgot Hansen). In your second list you completely disregard their impact at the NHL level and list every player you can think of. Classic propaganda technique. Did Tony mentor you? If you compared the NHL impact of the Gillis list to the Nonis list it's not even close. And Gillis has had twice as many drafts. Results matter in drafting and development. Plus, half the players you listed aren't prospects or even drafted by the club. Every player ever drafted by Gillis has been the steal of the draft, but none have made any real impact at the NHL level. The delusion in this town is frightening. Now I can see why they do nothing. They don't have to. You just can't brush off losing an entire generation of players like it's no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Ummmmmmm. Your lists are comparing apples to oranges. In your first list you ONLY list players that have made a substantial impact at the NHL level (you also forgot Hansen). In your second list you completely disregard their impact at the NHL level and list every player you can think of. Classic propaganda technique. Did Tony mentor you? If you compared the NHL impact of the Gillis list to the Nonis list it's not even close. And Gillis has had twice as many drafts. Results matter in drafting and development. Plus, half the players you listed aren't prospects or even drafted by the club. Every player ever drafted by Gillis has been the steal of the draft, but none have made any real impact at the NHL level. The delusion in this town is frightening. Now I can see why they do nothing. They don't have to. You just can't brush off losing an entire generation of players like it's no big deal. I think you're forgetting the 4th dimension there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterHorvatBure Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I think you might be a little TOO negative my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 escape goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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