sloany Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Poll on CBC Sports: What event in the past 12 months most impacted the canucks current tail spin? Your answers: 7th..not trading kesler at the deadline. 2% 6th..trading luongo. 8.4% 5th..extending the sedins 4years. 10.8% 4th..other. 11.5% 3rd..firing vigneault. 16.49% 2nd..hiring torts. 22.71% 1st..trading schneider. 28.52% While I respect people's opinions....I don't think any of these..save for maybe "other"...is the true issue with this team. I can remember saying way back when this team was the team to beat, that they had a scoring issue with the top teams. They beat the teams they should have. But against the top teams they struggled to dominate. Yes they won games...but always had to work hard for it. This fact came to light in the finals. They lost against the best teams. The sedins are good...so is kesler...but they are not and have never been enough to put this team over the top. This team needs more scorers...plain and simple. What's happened is the other teams in the league have all improved while the canucks have sort of stood still. Now it's become apparent and it's too late. Add to the mix that there's alot of no trade/move clauses and the handcuffs are on. I agree with not moving kesler. There's still time left to deal with that. The luongo trade was a surprise...but in my opinion they should've bought him out and stayed with schneider. It dosen't matter who's behind the bench right now. No coach out there can make something out of nothing. "Nothing" is alittle harsh...but my point is there's no scoring...that won't change with coaching changes. I'm on the fence with the sedins. They are good...but need more help. Does that fact warant the new deal...I kinda lean towards no. So I think the issue is this team doesn't have enough scoring punch. Doesn't matter who's coaching, playing goal etc...if your not scoring it dosen't matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppleJack Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I highly suspect that the bandwagoners or even non fans are out and about and voting! In the last few weeks and so I been told by so many non hockey liking friends/family just what the problem with the canucks is and pretty much all of them are pointing fingers at Torts! When I then point out we've had issues for the last three years they call me stupid and suggest I should 'watch' more games so I know what I am talking bout! Its driving me bloody nuts! So yeah I wouldn't put a lot of stock into random votes like this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Agreed 100%. You can speculate about a lot of things that may be wrong but the biggest most glaring error is that we don't have skilled players up front that scores you goals. The only thing which can actually win you a hockey game. IMO until that is fixed we really won't know if the other stuff matters or not. As you said, you can't get something from nothing. AV might have had a slightly better chance this year as he's had 6 years experience extracting blood from a stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 People want to put this in a nutshell when you need a dumptruck to load it into. So much has contributed to where we are now. Mostly, it started when a league allowed for goons and thugs to run over skilled players...wasn't supposed to be and the post Bertuzzi era was cleaning up on the post whistle and other garbage. Sure. So our skilled team that was top of the world until playoffs when whistles were put away and "anything goes" is in place. We weren't built for that. We got steamrolled. So we start adjusting what was basically a winning/scoring formula to address it...we get grit and a bit of size/pushback. We play hard and gritty and our guys all pay a price. There is no blame or easy solution...trying to find a working recipe in a league that's ever changing and inconsistent has been tough. I welcomed Torts as a no BS guy who'd fire back and challenge things. Where did that get us? He was "removed" and silenced. Has to play nice and within the ever changing rules. The team is depleted, exhausted, discouraged and basically seems to have thrown in the towel. At times it is a no win situation. I think that, mentally, they've learned they won't win - they can't win. It's not in the cards for us. Helpless and hopeless. Bleak. So this is where it's taken us. Fresh blood is the answer according to most. Fire everyone. But the fact remains that the Vancouver organization is not destined to win...the scheduling, the BS calls and disciplinary actions we face, the horrible luck with injuries. I don't think any one of us has "the" answer because it's more than just one. Mostly, over time, it may or may not fall into place. It was FIRE AV. He's gone. Get rid of Luongo. He's gone. Now it's fire GILLIS. But it's gotta come from within, as a group. You can swap parts but they may/may not work...gotta get a proper diagnosis of things first. My answers are I don't have any. But I'm tired of people throwing out the cliche catch phrases of the day. It's complex...is that not obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 And I add that it's easy for the armchair guys to sit back with the luxury of hindsight to analyze things. Unless you have a crystal ball there is not way of telling what will/will not pan out. So you go with what you think will work. Not everything does.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Don't tell my wife but I you Deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANGO Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 One of the best things to do when trying to succeed at anything is to have a plan and stick to it even if there are some roadblocks in the way. Not trading an immerging Schnides and turning your back on Lu was the first sign to me that this management team was impulsive and incapable of putting a long term plan together. Having a plan and acting on that, means that you are in charge of what is happening to the team. Everything that has happened since this event, or lack there of has been a reaction, not an action. When you are in the position of reacting all the time, you are no longer in charge and have no control. The vote is irrelevant, 5,6,7 technically haven't even happened yet so how can they be the cause. So my attempt at trying to nail it down is......8) not trading Schnides and sticking to the original plan, which I guess is bad asset management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 8) not trading Schnides Had no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANGO Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Had no choice. "Not trading an immerging Schnides" at this point in the timeline, we could have gotten some return for him. The problem was that we hung on to him until we HAD to do something about the goalie situation, and at that time had no leverage with other team cause they knew we HAD to make a move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 "Not trading an immerging Schnides" at this point in the timeline, we could have gotten some return for him. The problem was that we hung on to him until we HAD to do something about the goalie situation, and at that time had no leverage with other team cause they new we HAD to make a move. The only thing he could have done differently was trading Corey sooner. It was either that or trade Lu for nothing in which case he gets crucified for wasting assets and was the wrong thing to do. In the end we end up exactly where we are, Corey just moves sooner avoiding some drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I highly suspect that the bandwagoners or even non fans are out and about and voting! In the last few weeks and so I been told by so many non hockey liking friends/family just what the problem with the canucks is and pretty much all of them are pointing fingers at Torts! When I then point out we've had issues for the last three years they call me stupid and suggest I should 'watch' more games so I know what I am talking bout! Its driving me bloody nuts! So yeah I wouldn't put a lot of stock into random votes like this! were fourth in league scoring in the 2011-2012 season, we were 18th in league scoring last year but if you add four goals to our total we jump all the way to 9th (7 of the top scoring teams were from the east; you have to take last years league rank with a grain of salt). When you consider that you realize canucks were still a contender last year despite what the popular opinion is.(They also faired a lot better compared to contenders last year Chicago, LA and Anaheim). My point: With AV we were a top 10 team last year, with Torts we are a reciprocal of last year, a bottom 10 team. Are you sure this has nothing to do with torts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANGO Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The only thing he could have done differently was trading Corey sooner. It was either that or trade Lu for nothing in which case he gets crucified for wasting assets and was the wrong thing to do. In the end we end up exactly where we are, Corey just moves sooner avoiding some drama. we would still have a dedicated LU, if management hadn't turn their backs on him. All is moot now though.....I would agree. my point wasn't about the goalies specifically, but more about how assets are managed and having long term plan come to fruition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 we would still have a dedicated LU, if management hadn't turn their backs on him. All is moot now though.....I would agree. my point wasn't about the goalies specifically, but more about how assets are managed and having long term plan come to fruition. Coaching and fans turned their backs on him FWIW (not to mention Lu allowing himself to be outplayed), not management. Lu wanted out before we could/should have traded Corey anyway, so no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppleJack Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 were fourth in league scoring in the 2011-2012 season, we were 18th in league scoring last year but if you add four goals to our total we jump all the way to 9th (7 of the top scoring teams were from the east; you have to take last years league rank with a grain of salt). When you consider that you realize canucks were still a contender last year despite what the popular opinion is.(They also faired a lot better compared to contenders last year Chicago, LA and Anaheim). My point: With AV we were a top 10 team last year, with Torts we are a reciprocal of last year, a bottom 10 team. Are you sure this has nothing to do with torts? my point is that you can't soley blame torts for this! Yes he has made mistakes and yes we are worse then last year but we have been this way for the past three years! Gillis has a major stake in this he has not addressed this teams needs at all! Then you have star players who have done nothing at all! Think it's silly to place all blame on our coach when he just inherited problems that already pre-existed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 my point is that you can't soley blame torts for this! Yes he has made mistakes and yes we are worse then last year but we have been this way for the past three years! Gillis has a major stake in this he has not addressed this teams needs at all! Then you have star players who have done nothing at all! Think it's silly to place all blame on our coach when he just inherited problems that already pre-existed! -2011/2012 was off Stanley cup run. -2012/2013 was a bad year with lockout and impending CBA uncertainty vastly putting a hold on pretty much any major player movement. -2013/2014 know change is required and starts re-tool with moving Schneider. Shrinking cap severely handcuffs any major moves. I'm not sure what in that framework screams to you that he had all this room to re-mold the team with the flick of his wrist? Let alone re-shape the top 6! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanev's Smirk Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I blame Burrows and his lack of scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 my point is that you can't soley blame torts for this! Yes he has made mistakes and yes we are worse then last year but we have been this way for the past three years! Gillis has a major stake in this he has not addressed this teams needs at all! Then you have star players who have done nothing at all! Think it's silly to place all blame on our coach when he just inherited problems that already pre-existed! Never fully blamed torts for it just saying we haven't declined the way people think we have. If you don't believe me check it yourself. Bolded statement couldn't be more incorrect. Last year we managed to make the playoffs with only one line going and kesler out for long periods of time and playing only western conference teams. Last year Record against: Kings: 2-0-1 (including a 5-3 win IN LA) Hawks:2-0-1 Ducks: 1-2-0 Wild: 2-2-0 This Year Record against: Kings:0-3-1 Ducks: 0-3-1 Hawks: 1-2-0 Wild: 0-0-2 If you actually think we have been declining every single year since the finals, check again and you will see most of it has been done this year when torts came in. I don't think he needs to be fired but I think he needs to learn how to use his players effectively cause so far he has been a disaster. It couldn't have been any easier for him AV did all the research on the players already and he decides all of that was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpcurtly Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Other....torts explosion vs Calgary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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