Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Glaring Holes on Defence


Jiggs50

Recommended Posts

... again, that is why people have suggested Erhoff as an option. Cheap cap hit, has a good history here, and Buffalo is likely to be exploding their lineup before next year, He has a limited NTC clause so he partly controls where he goes and that reduces the trade cost.

If we do want to change up our defence and you can subtract Edler, adding Erhoff back in plus a young physical defender (eg. Emelin or Tinordi as mentioned above)... you don't have a lot of extra holes.

We have many veterans and have to remove some if we are giving young guys a chance anyways. If you trade Edler for a young top 6 forward; and Kesler for a solid young physical defenceman (plus more obviously).. then where are the extra holes? What does Erhoff cost you? Hansen and a middling prospect? Again, no problem if you are hoping to have some of Jensen, Horvat, Gaunce, or Lain on the roster.

That's making a LOT of assumptions about Edler and Kesler. Nor am I overly fond of "the return of Ehrhoff". He's a decent offensive player but he' HIGHLY over rated by many on here and quite 1-dimensional. He's also the exact opposite player we should be going for in a re-tool/build (31 years old and expensive).

I can already see the threads calling for Gillis's head for "bringing that expensive, old, 1-dimensional loser back here" the moment he has a misstep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's making a LOT of assumptions about Edler and Kesler. Nor am I overly fond of "the return of Ehrhoff". He's a decent offensive player but he' HIGHLY over rated by many on here and quite 1-dimensional. He's also the exact opposite player we should be going for in a re-tool/build (31 years old and expensive).

I can already see the threads calling for Gillis's head for "bringing that expensive, old, 1-dimensional loser back here" the moment he has a misstep.

I think you have missed my entire point...

a. He is not expensive, he is VERY VERY cheap. A $4 million cap hit is nothing, especially compared with the UFA salaries this summer when the cap ceiling increases. If he was on the open market this summer, he would be a $6 million + player.

b. Yes he is somewhat one-dimensional... that is exactly the point I made. He is very good at doing a few things. Guess what, those few things are what we don't have anyone in the organization who can do them . At $4 Million he could be a 3rd pairing guy who gets the bulk of his minutes on the PP and still be a decent deal.

c. This market has a taste for change and new blood... it doesn't however have the stomach for many years of futility a la Edmonton. That means a mix of young guys and veterans who can keep you somewhat competitive while re-tooling and looking towards the future. If we were "just" a playoff team but were doing it with young guys who were on the upswing, that is the ideal state for the next 2-4 years.

d. The Kesler and Edler deals were examples. We probably didn't move Kesler at the deadline because we wanted a young top 6 centre in return. With the whole offseason to play with you can accomplish the same thing with a number of different moves and dramatically widen the possible list of teams that you could send Kesler to.

If we are re-tooling (I have doubts Gillis can do this since he only wants to hit home-runs apparently)... then we need to send a few roster players out. Options are Burrows, Edler, Kesler, Garrison, Hansen, Richardson, and Higgins (probably not though since he is a steal cap-wise).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you have missed my entire point...

a. He is not expensive, he is VERY VERY cheap. A $4 million cap hit is nothing, especially compared with the UFA salaries this summer when the cap ceiling increases. If he was on the open market this summer, he would be a $6 million + player.

b. Yes he is somewhat one-dimensional... that is exactly the point I made. He is very good at doing a few things. Guess what, those few things are what we don't have anyone in the organization who can do them . At $4 Million he could be a 3rd pairing guy who gets the bulk of his minutes on the PP and still be a decent deal.

c. This market has a taste for change and new blood... it doesn't however have the stomach for many years of futility a la Edmonton. That means a mix of young guys and veterans who can keep you somewhat competitive while re-tooling and looking towards the future. If we were "just" a playoff team but were doing it with young guys who were on the upswing, that is the ideal state for the next 2-4 years.

d. The Kesler and Edler deals were examples. If we are re-tooling (I have doubts Gillis can do this since he only wants to hit home-runs apparently)... then we need to send a few roster players out. Options are Burrows, Edler, Kesler, Garrison, Hansen, Richardson, and Higgins (probably not though since he is a steal cap-wise).

$4m is a lot more than an ELC/bridge contract. He's still "old" and still 1-dimensional and largely useless for playoff hockey.

Largely agree on your third point but we already have the vets, we don't need to acquire new/additional ones.

Unless Kesler (or anyone else) wants out (TBD) the pieces we realistically have to move/buy out are:

Booth, Hansen, Richardson, Schroeder, Tanev and Weber (and until recently, Luongo).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the only 2 options are to play awful and win the draft lotto and get ekblad, or offer sheet Subban more than Montreal has cap space in July. :)

Otherwise what you see now is what you get for next September too.

Not just two options...

Let our own players develop (Subban). Trade Tanev + for a legit young PMD, Sign a UFA etc, etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not just two options...

Let our own players develop (Subban). Trade Tanev + for a legit young PMD, Sign a UFA etc, etc

I agree with developing our own.... but Tanev has developed quite nicely and I think he has even more to give with experience.

Would rather see them move Edler if he will waive. Richardson may become redundant, although I would like to see him stay. I'm on the fence with Booth as he is doing the right things,just can't seem to finish, something similar to what Burrows has been going through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edler has been terrible defensively this year. Edler has been terrible offensively as well. Remember Ohlund? Ohlund in the slot receiving a pass from a Sedin will put the puck in the net. Edler on the other hand, cannot seem to be able to do so at least this year as was evident in the game yesterday.

Hamhuis is quite solid defensively. Offense?? He is way to indecisive with the puck. He can't make a pass and even worse, he turns the puck over at the opposing blue line at times leading to odd man rushes. If you don't know what to do in the offensive zone and you are the last guy back, just dump the puck deep and hope that someone will retrieve it. Don't be trying to make a cross ice pass. You were high on Hamhuis, I agree that in our own zone, he has been solid but his play in the neutral zone and the offensive zone has been really bad lately.

Garrison has been average. Been good for a while, then so-so for a while. He is not great but not bad in both ends of the ice. He misses the net but it's better than turning the puck over right at the opposing team's blue line.

Tanev has been a pleasant surprise at both ends of the ice.

Bieksa has been... Bieksa.

Stanton is holding up his own.

Weber, what more can you ask from him? He's doing his job.

Conclusion: Pair up Edler with Tanev so that Edler has a good defensive partner that he can rely on. Put Hamhuis with Bieksa, so that Bieksa attacks and charges whilst Hamhuis just focusses on playing defense and be prepared to defend an odd man rush. Hamhuis is great at paying an odd man rush.

Deploy Garrison with Stanton (or Weber) as a third pairing. All three players are average players and are ideal for 3rd pairing. In fact, this pairing is probably better than most 3rd pairing in the league. They will be a solid 3rd pairing.

I think these holes that you mention come from not having idea defense partners. Probably can be improved if the pairings can be stabilized...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

my favorite D prospect is Tommernes. good power play guy. i would like to see us at least try a group of hamhuis-tanev, stanton-bieksa, and tommernes-garrison. if he's ready to quarterback the power play, i would be comfortable sheltering that 3rd pairing's minutes 5v5 and letting them have the lions share of PP time. hammer and bieksa on the second unit.

Edit* i forgot about corrado! maybe carry tommernes as a 7th? all these NTCs makes adjusting the D core way too difficult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not just two options...

Let our own players develop (Subban). Trade Tanev + for a legit young PMD, Sign a UFA etc, etc

So trade the only defencemen actually playing good under torts for a defencemen who may or may not pan out. Genius...

He's young, Gillis would be an even bigger idiot then I thought if he moves Tanev. We need to move one of Bieksa Edler Hamhuis or Garrison. They make big money and are redundant with Tanev and Stanton's play, who are far younger then them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Erhoff was by far the bigger pylon without the puck than edler. I'm all for acquiring a puck moving D but hell no to him.

It's an opportunity we're going to have to wait for. Finding one that isn't a complete Melvin without the puck is damn near impossible without trading our entire future for him. Gonna have to draft him or find a golden opportunity, there's no forcing it.

If we draft in 10-15 take mckoewn and see what happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not just two options...

Let our own players develop (Subban). Trade Tanev + for a legit young PMD, Sign a UFA etc, etc

Well that doesn't make any sense. None of our prospects that are puck moving d men are making this team next year.

There are no puck moving D that are worth having that are UFA.

There's also no way we will trade tanev+ for a different D unless another team wants to get rid of one of theirs. I don't think there are any teams that want to trade their Subban, webber, Keith ect, those guys are untouchable. Even if they weren't untouchable, we wouldn't have anything they would want in return anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have the right defence but wrong system. Our players play best in a puck moving system, rather than a grinding dump and chase system. Same even goes with the Sedins and our power play. Every zone entry over the years (before Torts) was passing plays along blue line and neutral zone. Defence had quick ups to the neutral zone and the blue line while getting up into the play. We simply don't have the right coaches for out situation and players.

It is apparent Gillis and Co. projected wrong on Edler,did not replace the superior playmaking and skating abilities of Ehrhoff and Salo and miscalculated that Garrison was anything remotely resembling a playmaker.

Those personnel blunders are what changed the offensive thrust of the team.

It seems Mike and Co. should stop their failed projections for their D men and hire/defer to a defensive specialist that is proven at player personnel decisions.

I thought this team employed Dave Babych? If he is still in the fold he is inadequate at the role or is not being given a proper say in personnel decisions on the back end.

Gillis,Gilman and their minions have no clue what they have done or continue to put on the ice.

PP is dead. Time to hire somebody that has a clue,Mikey.Better yet,step aside.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2013-14:

Edler -28 5 g 11 a 23:21 ATOI

Ehrhoff -14 6g 23 a 23:55 ATOI

2010-11:

Edler +13 8g 25a

Ehrhoff +19 14g 36a

2009-10:

Edler +/- 0 5g 37a

Ehrhoff +36 14g 30a

You also have to consider the team they are playing for.

Erhoff only has the 4th worst +/- amongst the defencemen on his team.

Edler has by far the worst rating at our team being -22 WORSE than the next defenceman Garrison who is at -6

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't stand Garrison...can't hit anything, the net, the opposing forwards...soft as jello

but..but..but.....he is a local boy, so he deserves a free pass ;)

all jokes aside, among all of our 4M+ defense men, Edler at least throws a big hit every now and then, he also got a decent shot, Bieksa has a mean streak and by far our most physical Dman in terms of his on-ice attitude, Hamuis is generally steady and poise, as for Garrison.................I think you are bang on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea, Garrison is built like a tank, a tank with zero artillery in it. Very dissapointing he doesn't use his size. Too slow to try and skate with top forwards, needs to lay on the bawd. Even his interviews are soft. Only thing hard about him is his shot, and it's like that Mighty Ducks kid who misses 9 times outta 10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...