John Tortorella's track record

[RUPERTKBD]

I agree we should keep torts i don't get why everybody hates him?

It's certainly not a case of people "hating" him, but this is a town where we have become used to our team at the very least being a playoff team.

Torts was brought in to take this particular team to the next level. For several reasons (some within and some without his control) he was not able to do so. In fact, he presided over one of the worst stretches of hockey (from the beginning of January to mid March) that most Canuck fans can remember.

he may not be completely at fault, but when a team performs that poorly, everyone, including the coaching staff, have to share in the blame.

[terrible.dee]

I know I am but I have a lot more patience than others. I find other ways to cheer for the team rather than they MUST win or cry myself to sleep. In fact, we need to draft in the top 5 hopefully next year.

I guess its a product of being raised on the 1977 to 91 teams

Haha! I agree,

I was a fan during the mid 90's Keenan era, and I found different ways of enjoying the team. In fact, I find following a team trying find it's way out of the cellar to be quite entertaining. So many different factors to discuss and analyze.

But the current crop of Canuck fans were raised on winning, and if the team doesn't win I suspect they will find their entertainment elsewhere.

[Smashian Kassian]

I'd give him another year atleast, I don't think we will be a contender for awhile unfortunately so depending on how next season goes, I would be on board with this. If its another pitiful collapse where the team is just an embarrassment to watch again then fire him (which means big changes are coming)

If this team can get healthy, build off some of the positives of this year, get some younger guys in, maybe make the playoffs even if its just a first round exit.

Then I'm on board with keeping him for longer.

[terrible.dee]

The problem with Torts is he is a burnout coach, like Keenan. I think he was brought in to shock one last run out of this group.

Long term, I just don't think he fits.

[Baka]

Who knows what ownership is thinking? Maybe he was brought in to help usher out the old core while bringing in and developing players who can play his brand of hockey.

The reality of the Western conference is you can't win without big bodies and stifling defensive play. We're seeing those teams rise to the top, and unless the Canucks get on board they're going to continue to fall behind.

If that was the case why would they keep the older players around? For Torts to develop young players who play his brand of hockey wouldn't he need those players to actually be on the roster?

With that being said I do believe Torts works much better with younger players. He has leverage over them unlike older veterans. Younger players also may simply be able to physically handle his little rest system.

Ether way both of those rosters were riddled with younger players. Very few players over 30 (Rupp, Fedotenko, Richards) and (Andreychuk, Taylor, Sydor, Khabibulin) as far as significant everyday players go over 30 and of course both had goalies who were on fire.

Canucks would still need to move many of those older players and Gillis would have to get solid returns (questionable with some of those contracts and NTC's) to fill out a healthy young group of players. Then of course develop them. It would likely take more than 3 more years. Plus with Torts there is always the risk that he can lose his own locker room which has happened both in Tampa and New York.

I should also add nether one of those teams really glided to those positions. The Rangers 2 series before they lost in the ECF they were taken 7 games by the #8 seed Senators then taken 7 games by the #7 seed Capitals. They won both series because Lundqvist just would not allow them to lose.

Philly took Tampa 7 games with half their defense hurt. Calgary took them 7 games and had that argued non goal that could have won them the cup.

Point being I am also skeptical of how many times a team can go 7 games without the puck falling the other way.

Still I said MG has the most influence over when the team will contend again with or without Torts.

[DeNiro]

It's certainly not a case of people "hating" him, but this is a town where we have become used to our team at the very least being a playoff team.

Torts was brought in to take this particular team to the next level. For several reasons (some within and some without his control) he was not able to do so. In fact, he presided over one of the worst stretches of hockey (from the beginning of January to mid March) that most Canuck fans can remember.

he may not be completely at fault, but when a team performs that poorly, everyone, including the coaching staff, have to share in the blame.

Well maybe he was brought in a couple seasons too late then?

I think this team could compete for the cup 2 years ago, maybe even last year. But the pieces just weren't there to do anything IMO.

We didn't have the young rookies coming in and taking pressure off the vets like Gillis claimed would happen. And we didn't sign anyone to help shore up the depth in case of injuries, so again we ended up putting all the pressure on the Sedins to carry the team which burned them out.

It's up to Gillis to start fixing this team, not Tortorella. We need to get back to the place where we're strong in net (Lack and Markstrom both able to run with it), deep on D, and have a 1A/1b top 6 and a 3A and 3B bottom 6. Only then will we be able to compete.

[terrible.dee]

I think Torts is someone that the game has just left behind. Hell, he himself looks like he checked out about a month ago. I'll be stunned if he's still here come September.

He really does seem like a beaten man,

His plan for the team failed and I think that was a blow to his confidence.

I'm not convinced that he has a "Plan B"

[Henrik Kesler]

I think he needs another year, but I also think he needs to expand his view of how the game should be played a bit, too.

For one, he needs to put more emphasis on the Power Play and getting it corrected. At the Canucks peak, (2008-2012)they had a PP that was top 5 in the league. Scoring goals on special teams goes a long way toward making the playoffs, that much I am sure of. This team is still above average in terms of shot attempt and shot generation, but the brutal PP has cost this team TONS of points and quite literally is the difference between making the playoffs and drafting 8th this season.

Second, I think he needs to tone down the PK just a bit. Yes, an aggressive PK forces the PP to make mistakes, but it also exposes the PK to puck chasing if the team on the PP can maintain the zone and have a solid cycle for more than 20 seconds. There has to be a happy medium between the super aggressive, puck chasing PK, and a super passive PK that allows the opponent to cycle at will.

[DeNiro]

If that was the case why would they keep the older players around? For Torts to develop young players who play his brand of hockey wouldn't he need those players to actually be on the roster?

Because the older players are locked in with no trade clauses. There are ways of getting rid of those contracts however. Like forcing certain players to request trades or even asking them to waive.

There were no young players ready to join the team this season unfortunately for Gillis. Jensen didn't come up until recently and that was too little too late.

I think next season we should finally see this "youth movement" that Gillis has been claiming will happen for years.

[Jai604]

He really does seem like a beaten man,

His plan for the team failed and I think that was a blow to his confidence.

I'm not convinced that he has a "Plan B"

Honestly, just a ridiculously frustrating year for him. It's hard to change the culture of a team, and moreso when the players you depend on and trust are constantly getting injured.

[RUPERTKBD]

Well maybe he was brought in a couple seasons too late then?

I think this team could compete for the cup 2 years ago, maybe even last year.

It's possible.

It's also possible that the team could have had a season much like this year, where the twins struggle to score due to not being used in primarily offensive situations. It's possible that the Canucks could have suffered injuries to key performers, because of an added emphasis on shot blocking.

There are many possibilities, but it's impossible to know what would have happened had Torts been here two years ago. This is why I don't really put any effort into this type of speculation. (Besides, would Slats have let him go two years ago?)

Bear in mind that the Canucks team that lost to LA was without Daniel Sedin until it was too late for him to help, (he wasn't himself, anyway) and the team that was swept last year by the Sharks, endured the worst powerplay/penalty imbalance in NHL playoff history.

If we're cutting Torts some slack, we need to do the same for AV.

[ilduce39]

What I take from this year is that our core group doesn't have the ability to contend in this league anymore. If they can't have a competitive showing with 2 Jack Adams winning coaches the changes need to come via Gilly and the roster.

Torts was given a 5 year contract - meaning if he was meant to give the core "one last hurrah" he was also meant to be the guy to break in the new crop of Canucks. I actually like the fact he's not going to throw the Jensens of the world out there simply for entertainment's sake. Let the guy learn how to play 2-way hockey and ride the pine if he won't.

With that said, Torts needs a roster of more than 1 or 2 young players if that's going to happen - Torts is going to ice the best team possible (rightfully so) so Gilly needs to remove the security blanket of Ryan Kesler and the temptation of Jannik Hansen.. put him in a position where he has to develop the young guys and create some internal competition.

[xereau]

Up until last year's win by the Hawks, the previous 9 winners had coaches who had been with the team 3 or less seasons.

Players tuning out coaches is nothing new.

Not saying players have tuned out Torts, because I do not know.

However their record since Torts went apeman kind of speaks for itself.

[RUPERTKBD]

What I take from this year is that our core group doesn't have the ability to contend in this league anymore. If they can't have a competitive showing with 2 Jack Adams winning coaches the changes need to come via Gilly and the roster.

Torts was given a 5 year contract - meaning if he was meant to give the core "one last hurrah" he was also meant to be the guy to break in the new crop of Canucks. I actually like the fact he's not going to throw the Jensens of the world out there simply for entertainment's sake. Let the guy learn how to play 2-way hockey and ride the pine if he won't.

With that said, Torts needs a roster of more than 1 or 2 young players if that's going to happen - Torts is going to ice the best team possible (rightfully so) so Gilly needs to remove the security blanket of Ryan Kesler and the temptation of Jannik Hansen.. put him in a position where he has to develop the young guys and create some internal competition.

I have to agree.

I understand the desire to "give it one more shot" with the old core and a new coach, but moving forward, I believe it's time for a re-start.

If we can find a place where Kes and (hopefully) Edler will be happy, I'd love to see a Blue-chip defensive prospect in the system, and/or a high draft pick (prefereably for 2015)

Gillis was quoted as saying that the only untouchables on the roster were Danny and Hank. I think it's time he proved it.

[DeNiro]

Up until last year's win by the Hawks, the previous 9 winners had coaches who had been with the team 3 or less seasons.

Players tuning out coaches is nothing new.

Not saying players have tuned out Torts, because I do not know.

However their record since Torts went apeman kind of speaks for itself.

Which is why I think it would be best to trade certain players.

I have a feeling a guy like Kesler is providing the most resistance in the room for Tortorella. He just seems like a pouty player that would tune a coach out pretty quick if he criticizes him at all.

I think a new group of young players who are willing to run through a wall for the coach is what this team needs. And less stubborn players who are stuck in their ways.

[RUPERTKBD]

Up until last year's win by the Hawks, the previous 9 winners had coaches who had been with the team 3 or less seasons.

Players tuning out coaches is nothing new.

Not saying players have tuned out Torts, because I do not know.

However their record since Torts went apeman kind of speaks for itself.

Yeah, I think this is the time for that oft-used "correlation/causation" quote.

If Torts' blunder and subsequent suspension was enough to push the team into such an epic nosedive, then the rebuild needs to start ASAP...

[VanIsleNuckFan]

I know I am but I have a lot more patience than others. I find other ways to cheer for the team rather than they MUST win or cry myself to sleep. In fact, we need to draft in the top 5 hopefully next year.

I guess its a product of being raised on the 1977 to 91 teams

Agree, although I didn't have the privilege of watching before I was born, so it was a more recent, watched on and off in the 80's and early 90's... And watched every game since 98-99 ish... =) I'm not going anywhere, and besides when they are a bunch of suck bums a win is that much sweeter..

[Riviera82]

So looking at Tortorella's coaching history, it would seem there's a trend of having success in his 4th year.

He did it with Tampa missing the playoffs his first two years, losing in the second round in the third year, and then winning the cup in the 4th.

With New York he lost in the first round his first year, missed the playoffs his second year, lost in the first round his third year, and then made it to the conference finals his 4th year.

So if this is year one, based on the trend we may end up with a couple more years of sucking as he builds up the team and it's culture before we have any success.

Are fans okay with a couple more years of missing the playoffs or first round exits if it means we have a contender in 3 years?

If we win a Stanley Cup in the 4th year then absolutely yes.

[xereau]

Which is why I think it would be best to trade certain players.

I have a feeling a guy like Kesler is providing the most resistance in the room for Tortorella. He just seems like a pouty player that would tune a coach out pretty quick if he criticizes him at all.

I think a new group of young players who are willing to run through a wall for the coach is what this team needs. And less stubborn players who are stuck in their ways.

I agree with trading off some players to try to change the team culture.

I don't know whats going on inside the room, or team.

However looking from the outside, I see a core that has not changed, and neither has the team's trajectory.

This tends to rule out coaching as being the root of the problem.

[tas]

even if you look past tortorella's medieval coaching tactics and people skills, the real problem is his outdated, bush league strategy. moving from a modern, cerebral puck possession strategy to a dump, chase, grunt strategy is a huge step in the wrong direction.