Another Work Place Drama Thread.

[Drewismyname]

Hey.

I've worked for the same place since out of high school and the owner and I had a falling out which lead to me being evicted from renting a property of his and also being fired. The legality of the situation isn't important to me as I am not going to try to sue him for severance or anything it's not worth it.

I am curious how to go about my resume. The only job experience I have since out of highschool over the last eight or nine years is this construction related job in victoria and I am positive that my boss will give a very bad review due to the personal nature of the falling out.

Do I list this job as a reference and use employee's and customers numbers instead of the boss? Do I leave it out and probably get no calls? Do I try to explain the nature of the falling out to possible employers? Do I explain that in the interview or the resume?

It's a tough situation and I am thinking that the only way I can get a job is through a friend or acquaintance as opposed to handing out resumes because of this.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

[Offensive Threat]

Get a friend to call him posing as a potential employer saying you listed him as your previous employer. See what he says about you. This will let you know if he can be put on your resume or not.

[goalie13]

I would list the job, just don't list the boss as a reference. The gap in employment (or lack of employment) would be harder to explain than the departure.

I feel it is better to be up-front and honest about these things rather than try to hide them.

[Mastaj]

Definitely leave it on - having a 9 year gap in work experience is not something you want to showcase on your resume. Plus, despite the falling out, you DO have significant experience in that industry, which is what you need to focus on.

For your resume, articulate at least 3 - 5 explicit accomplishments that you achieved during the job. Use numbers if possible ("implemented a project management structure that decreased expenses 15%").

When it comes to the interview stage, you need to have a reasonable explanation for the falling out - hopefully it was not something unforgivable on your part (e.g. theft or fraud). It sounds like it may have been a personal falling out since you were also evicted, so perhaps focus on that? That is easier to explain why your boss will not be a good reference.

Next you need to find other references - co-workers, contractors, vendors, clients - who you can use as an interim reference, until you find a new job.

I would also check out this site:

www.askamanager.org

I find this site quite helpful, and you can submit questions to be answered. In fact, your exact question is likely to be already on the blog with a suggestion as well as recommendations from other posters/users.

Best of luck in your job search!

[Guest]

I'd list the job, but wouldn't use him as a reference. If your new employer asks in the interview why you left, just say you two had a falling out

[TOMapleLaughs]

To me references are overrated. I don't think anyone will make a final decision based on a reference unless some real horror story is revealed, but generally a resume, interview and probation period is going to reveal major issues.

Of course I would leave this person out and put in whoever's going to get you a good recommendation. This is expected by all employers. That's why most references aren't checked. If the employer wants to pry into your past, he will. If he asks about why you parted ways with your ex-employer, be truthful. Employers realize that these certain situations that lead to a falling out happen. Not only that, but chances are your ex-employer will be a competitor of your new one, so what kind of trust will there be there?

As long as you will move past your ex-employer issues with your new employer it's a total non-factor.

[Mastaj]

To me references are overrated. I don't think anyone will make a final decision based on a reference unless some real horror story is revealed, but generally a resume, interview and probation period is going to reveal major issues.

Of course I would leave this person out and put in whoever's going to get you a good recommendation. This is expected by all employers. That's why most references aren't checked. If the employer wants to pry into your past, he will. If he asks about why you parted ways with your ex-employer, be truthful. Employers realize that these certain situations that lead to a falling out happen. Not only that, but chances are your ex-employer will be a competitor of your new one, so what kind of trust will there be there?

As long as you will move past your ex-employer issues with your new employer it's a total non-factor.

I agree, except the part about reference checking. A good reference check does not just use the people that the candidate supplied, but calls previous workplaces. A good reference checker asks specific questions about the candidates work preferences and style that will help inform a decision - such as "as his manager, what did he excel at / what type of environment helped achieve the best performance?" or "what are some areas of development for him that I should be aware of, in order to help me manage him best"?

But otherwise, yes I agree that references are not the final decision maker, just a component of it (which is very often skipped by many employers).

[Ronalds.Kenins41]

Hey.

I've worked for the same place since out of high school and the owner and I had a falling out which lead to me being evicted from renting a property of his and also being fired. The legality of the situation isn't important to me as I am not going to try to sue him for severance or anything it's not worth it.

I am curious how to go about my resume. The only job experience I have since out of highschool over the last eight or nine years is this construction related job in victoria and I am positive that my boss will give a very bad review due to the personal nature of the falling out.

Do I list this job as a reference and use employee's and customers numbers instead of the boss? Do I leave it out and probably get no calls? Do I try to explain the nature of the falling out to possible employers? Do I explain that in the interview or the resume?

It's a tough situation and I am thinking that the only way I can get a job is through a friend or acquaintance as opposed to handing out resumes because of this.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Resumes have changed a lot recently and you can probably even not include the reference(although references now require their own page if you want to include it) but if you do make sure you put some skill statements from the job(statements that start with an action word and describe the skills you developed at the job for each position there are usually 5-10 statements per position depending on the job)

Having 8-9 years experience for in demand career is definitely an asset. You'll be fine.

[elvis15]

It's illegal for an employer to give a bad reference actually. They can choose to decline being a reference (which I'd assume they would if you asked them to be a reference on your resume, not that you'd want them from the sounds) but leave the work experience on there. They can confirm the time you worked there and what position you had, but they can't make negative statements about your time working with them if they don't have anything good to say.

For references, use other co-workers, ideally another supervisor or something as well as non-work references (school, professional associates) instead of your former boss.

[Tre Mac]

 

Get a friend to call him posing as a potential employer saying you listed him as your previous employer. See what he says about you. This will let you know if he can be put on your resume or not.

 

This only works if your interested in becoming a latex salesman for Vanderlay Industries.

[goalie13]

It's illegal for an employer to give a bad reference actually. They can choose to decline (which I'd assume they would if you asked them to be a reference on your resume, not that you'd want them from the sounds) but they can't make negative statements about your time working with them.

Use other co-workers, ideally another supervisor or something as well as non-work references (school, professional associates) instead of your boss.

I don't know if it's illegal, but I do know people have successfully sued former employers for giving bad references. Some employers now have policies where they won't say anything beyond confirming that you worked there.

[elvis15]

It has been in the past, unless that's changed.

[Mastaj]

It's illegal for an employer to give a bad reference actually. They can choose to decline being a reference (which I'd assume they would if you asked them to be a reference on your resume, not that you'd want them from the sounds) but leave the work experience on there. They can confirm the time you worked there and what position you had, but they can't make negative statements about your time working with them if they don't have anything good to say.

For references, use other co-workers, ideally another supervisor or something as well as non-work references (school, professional associates) instead of your former boss.

This is a myth, actually. It is perfectly legal to give a bad reference, as long as what you state is the truth. It is, however, illegal to defame someone's character.

Legal:

-John Smith had attendance problems and did not reliably show up to work

-John Smith did not have the skills necessary for the job and did not perform his duties to a satisfactory level, thus he was let go

-I would not rehire John Smith

Illegal:

-John Smith is an idiot/creep/moron/other insult that is not based on fact

[elvis15]

I'd always heard it was, but even then if the employer doesn't have a legit reason to fire the OP with actual issues he could list like the example above, then it shouldn't be an issue anyway. Having a more trusted reference from the same company (or elsewhere if there isn't another supervisor) that would support you being a good worker during those 8 years would be a safe way to balance anything the boss could say.