[Proposal] van edmonton/pitt

[thad]

Thought about this in the draft thread and thought i'd create a proposal that when you look at it in a different view, it looks like decent hockey trades.

We want to maximize the value of kesler and get a great young centre in return with at least a first round pick with him. We would also like to add a puck moving defenseman to the system.

So vancouver starts by setting up a trade to see ryan kesler go to pitt for Derek Pouliot and a 1st. you get that agreed upon first.

Kesler

for

Pouliot 1st

we may think its an underpayment and want a center but bare with me..

Then we trade edmonton our pick corrado and our second for edmontons first 2/3 overall

corrado first second

for

2nd overall Reinhart

The trades may seem like we're giving up too many assets but when you look at it as

kesler for Reinhart

corrado 2nd for Pouliot

I think it looks like a couple of great hockey trades

[thad]

I'll add we take a down grade in first round picks but whatever

[canucks155]

Kes Trade: Great minds think alike. I said the same thing on my post. Good job not overvaluing Kes.

EDM Trade: Great minds don't think alike. Edmonton will want A LOT more for the 2nd/3rd OVR pick.

[thad]

Kes Trade: Great minds think alike. I said the same thing on my post. Good job not overvaluing Kes.

EDM Trade: Great minds don't think alike. Edmonton will want A LOT more for the 2nd/3rd OVR pick.

The thing is they can still get Fluery with our pick. It's likely the trade down they're exactly looking for. Corrado and a 2nd makes it worthwhile to do it.

Fluery Corrado 2nd is pretty good for Sam Reinhart.. The second is a high second.

If they want defense then there might not be a better deal out there than that. 2 future top 4 dmen.

[Rush17]

We need Gillis to be a man of action. I hope he has done his homework. If he has then he can make deals that seems in the other teams favor but in return gets us great value in the long term. The thing we as fans need to realize is we won't get a big impact player right now for Kesler. The goal is a acquire assets that equal or exceed Kesler's value. If Gillis and our scouting staff can elevate their game they may be able to get us a great set of assets back. But we can't expect an NHL ready huge impact player with additional assets. If they do a good job though we may be able to steal some promising prospects that could exceed Kesler's value in the long hall. I think Mathias can fill in the void for our second line until one of our other prospects challenges for the position. Torts and management is testing Mathias and having Hank out only gives them a better sample of what he is capable of. I think getting him in return for Lou may be a key piece in our success transitioning to a new, young, and dynamic core.

[Rush17]

Also like to add so people don't auto rip Gillis on top of my comment. He and our scouting staff pulled off some crazy good work at our last draft. Lets see if it's something we can emulate moving forward.

[canucks155]

The thing is they can still get Fluery with our pick. It's likely the trade down they're exactly looking for. Corrado and a 2nd makes it worthwhile to do it.

Fluery Corrado 2nd is pretty good for Sam Reinhart.. The second is a high second.

If they want defense then there might not be a better deal out there than that. 2 future top 4 dmen.

Reinhart= Potential franchise player

Fleury= Potential top 2 dman

Corrado= Potential top 4 dman

2nd doesn't really matter.

If we threw in the 1st from Pit then I think it'd work but that would be a bit overpaying on our part. I don't think it would work. Plus, I think Buffalo will go for Reinhart because they already have a defensive gem in Myers and Reinhart is the sort of guy who usually goes 1st. So if Buf takes Sam and Edmonton has the 2dn pick, they are picking Ekblad w/o listening to anybody.

[thad]

Reinhart= Potential franchise player

Fleury= Potential top 2 dman

Corrado= Potential top 4 dman

2nd doesn't really matter.

If we threw in the 1st from Pit then I think it'd work but that would be a bit overpaying on our part. I don't think it would work. Plus, I think Buffalo will go for Reinhart because they already have a defensive gem in Myers and Reinhart is the sort of guy who usually goes 1st. So if Buf takes Sam and Edmonton has the 2dn pick, they are picking Ekblad w/o listening to anybody.

yeah im not down with throwing in the first. This proposal is based on Buffalo taking Ekblad and i believe they will. My thinking is after Ekblad is gone, edmonton's plan is to trade down to Fluery. Bigger need for a guy like fluery than Reinhart. The best offer from us is Corrado 2nd and the Fluery pick. They can take it or leave it. im not desperate enough for reinhart to give up any more.

If they already want to trade down because they want a blue chip defense prospect, then unless someone offers up better, they might really like this deal. The other thing depends on where we pick, if we have the 6th pick, then they are sure to land fluery. If a team with the 8th pick has a better package around the pick, its more of a risk. Then you have a situation where edmonton has 2 offers, takes the later pick with a prospect and an extra first rounder. Gillis drafts Fluery and edmonton just shot themselves in the foot haha.

I appreciate your critique, just pointing out my view on it. edmonton is loaded up front and has a dire need to build defense. They screwed up taking yak over murray so id imagine they may have a plan in place should ekblad go first to buffalo. corrado is ready to step in now. This trade completes their future top 4 defense, where as reinhart just adds to the imbalance that has left them bottom feeders for far too long.

[thad]

We need Gillis to be a man of action. I hope he has done his homework. If he has then he can make deals that seems in the other teams favor but in return gets us great value in the long term. The thing we as fans need to realize is we won't get a big impact player right now for Kesler. The goal is a acquire assets that equal or exceed Kesler's value. If Gillis and our scouting staff can elevate their game they may be able to get us a great set of assets back. But we can't expect an NHL ready huge impact player with additional assets. If they do a good job though we may be able to steal some promising prospects that could exceed Kesler's value in the long hall. I think Mathias can fill in the void for our second line until one of our other prospects challenges for the position. Torts and management is testing Mathias and having Hank out only gives them a better sample of what he is capable of. I think getting him in return for Lou may be a key piece in our success transitioning to a new, young, and dynamic core.

I agree, Great post, dude!

My thoughts exactly, we need to just accept the transition and not shoot for the moon. I think we go into the kesler deal targeting one player and my personal preference is Pouliot. I think he's going to have a way bigger nhl impact than any centre we have a chance at aquiring. If nyquist or schenn are available then yeah pull the trigger. Thats just not going to happen though. Get the best chance you can at a future star and move on to the next project.

Agree with your veiw on matthias as well. he may not be en elite top six centre but i dont expect us to be challenging for the cup next year anyways. Him and Horvat can battle it out for that #2 spot. if one of them takes in and runs, great. If not we go shopping. In that event, at least we maximized keslers value when we had the chance.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

yeah im not down with throwing in the first. This proposal is based on Buffalo taking Ekblad and i believe they will. My thinking is after Ekblad is gone, edmonton's plan is to trade down to Fluery. Bigger need for a guy like fluery than Reinhart. The best offer from us is Corrado 2nd and the Fluery pick. They can take it or leave it. im not desperate enough for reinhart to give up any more.

If they already want to trade down because they want a blue chip defense prospect, then unless someone offers up better, they might really like this deal. The other thing depends on where we pick, if we have the 6th pick, then they are sure to land fluery. If a team with the 8th pick has a better package around the pick, its more of a risk. Then you have a situation where edmonton has 2 offers, takes the later pick with a prospect and an extra first rounder. Gillis drafts Fluery and edmonton just shot themselves in the foot haha.

I appreciate your critique, just pointing out my view on it. edmonton is loaded up front and has a dire need to build defense. They screwed up taking yak over murray so id imagine they may have a plan in place should ekblad go first to buffalo. corrado is ready to step in now. This trade completes their future top 4 defense, where as reinhart just adds to the imbalance that has left them bottom feeders for far too long.

I'd argue they also screwed up taking Hall over seguin, And nudge over Landeskog.

When it came to Yak they should have traded down 10-15 spots and picked up a currently NHL ready top 4 d along with a 1st round pick

Landeskog Seguin Eberle could have been their first line Size, speed and goal scoring

[thad]

I'd argue they also screwed up taking Hall over seguin, And nudge over Landeskog.

When it came to Yak they should have traded down 10-15 spots and picked up a currently NHL ready top 4 d along with a 1st round pick

Landeskog Seguin Eberle could have been their first line Size, speed and goal scoring

Thats just pure hindsight though. Hall is still one of the best wingers in the league and nuge will be a great centre for them.

Yakupov over Murray was a pure headscratcher at the time imo as they had all these great young forwards and an incredibly gifted offensive dman was ranked 2nd.

Either way its pretty funny to watch them try and recreate the 1980's oilers and fail miserably at it lol

[Toews]

yeah im not down with throwing in the first. This proposal is based on Buffalo taking Ekblad and i believe they will. My thinking is after Ekblad is gone, edmonton's plan is to trade down to Fluery. Bigger need for a guy like fluery than Reinhart. The best offer from us is Corrado 2nd and the Fluery pick. They can take it or leave it. im not desperate enough for reinhart to give up any more.

If they already want to trade down because they want a blue chip defense prospect, then unless someone offers up better, they might really like this deal. The other thing depends on where we pick, if we have the 6th pick, then they are sure to land fluery. If a team with the 8th pick has a better package around the pick, its more of a risk. Then you have a situation where edmonton has 2 offers, takes the later pick with a prospect and an extra first rounder. Gillis drafts Fluery and edmonton just shot themselves in the foot haha.

I appreciate your critique, just pointing out my view on it. edmonton is loaded up front and has a dire need to build defense. They screwed up taking yak over murray so id imagine they may have a plan in place should ekblad go first to buffalo. corrado is ready to step in now. This trade completes their future top 4 defense, where as reinhart just adds to the imbalance that has left them bottom feeders for far too long.

First of all what is your reasoning behind Buffalo taking Ekblad?

Even still that is an awful offer for Edmonton to consider. Corrado and a 2nd to move down essentially 6-8 spots is really bad value. Most teams in the top 10 will easily better that offer. The Oilers problem is not that they didn't draft Murray over Yakupov, how much of a difference do people think a rookie defenseman would have in fixing one of the worst defense in the league. The Oilers have systematic problems that aren't going to solve themselves just because they picked up a 18 year old defenseman.

Even if what you predict happens and Ekblad goes 1st to Buffalo. The best option for the Oilers is to deal the pick for a more established defenseman, I am sure there will be plenty of good offers if Reinhart is still on board. If no one can provide the right value for that pick, I would just draft Reinhart. Edmonton has some decent upcoming dman prospects but the center depth on that team is really awful. Drafting Reinhart would be give them 2 skilled high potential centers that they can build around in Nuge and Reinhart. They can always package assets for the right defenseman. Its not like their forwards have no value, if they made Eberle available I am sure there would be some serious offers.

[thad]

First of all what is your reasoning behind Buffalo taking Ekblad?

Even still that is an awful offer for Edmonton to consider. Corrado and a 2nd to move down essentially 6-8 spots is really bad value. Most teams in the top 10 will easily better that offer. The Oilers problem is not that they didn't draft Murray over Yakupov, how much of a difference do people think a rookie defenseman would have in fixing one of the worst defense in the league. The Oilers have systematic problems that aren't going to solve themselves just because they picked up a 18 year old defenseman.

Even if what you predict happens and Ekblad goes 1st to Buffalo. The best option for the Oilers is to deal the pick for a more established defenseman, I am sure there will be plenty of good offers if Reinhart is still on board. If no one can provide the right value for that pick, I would just draft Reinhart. Edmonton has some decent upcoming dman prospects but the center depth on that team is really awful. Drafting Reinhart would be give them 2 skilled high potential centers that they can build around in Nuge and Reinhart. They can always package assets for the right defenseman. Its not like their forwards have no value, if they made Eberle available I am sure there would be some serious offers.

My reasoning is in my opinion, the draft quality is Ekblad and then everybody else. I think he's hands down the best player in the draft. Chris Pronger quality. I dont see any team taking another player over him.

you make good points on edmonton, and i agree with them. If they made another player like eberle available they could beef up their team for sure. I just think if it we end up with the 6th overall pick and they would like to trade down to fluery, its a great deal for them. If we have the 9th or 10th pick theres no chance like you say for them to trade down 6-8 spots.

This proposal is purely based on us ending up just outside the top 5 and ekblad being taken first. I believe edmonton may field offers leading up to the draft should that happen. If another team offers up an established top 4 dman then great for them, they could really use that. depending on the quality of the player, age and other factors, it might not be really what they are looking for.

This is simply the deal i would put in front of them from our side. It gives them 2 young dmen to grow with their core as they get to move down the draft to select the second best dman this year. Add to that corrado is ready to step in now.

i dont feel its an underpayment from us. If we were sitting with the 20th pick then yeah theyd be nuts to take it. But Corrado and a high second is enough to move up 4 spots imo. There may be better offers out there but thats the name of the game. Offer up what you are comfortable giving up and feel works for the other team, if its not enough, relax your itchy trigger finger because tomorrow is a new day.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Thats just pure hindsight though. Hall is still one of the best wingers in the league and nuge will be a great centre for them.

Yakupov over Murray was a pure headscratcher at the time imo as they had all these great young forwards and an incredibly gifted offensive dman was ranked 2nd.

Either way its pretty funny to watch them try and recreate the 1980's oilers and fail miserably at it lol

Of course hindsight is always 20/20, its why drafts are just a crap shoot.

Just think of the team we've could have build over the last 10 years by taking gems selected after our picks. (not knocking just us it happens to every team.

[JeremyCuddles]

The thing is they can still get Fluery with our pick. It's likely the trade down they're exactly looking for. Corrado and a 2nd makes it worthwhile to do it.

Fluery Corrado 2nd is pretty good for Sam Reinhart.. The second is a high second.

If they want defense then there might not be a better deal out there than that. 2 future top 4 dmen.

From the sounds of it, they want Draisatl. He's hovering around 3-5 isn't he? Something tells me they just nab Reinhart and butcher his career. Is there such thing as a centre graveyard?

I don't like over paying in assets especially for one unproven player. Too bad we can't just send them Edler for their 1st.

[thad]

From the sounds of it, they want Draisatl. He's hovering around 3-5 isn't he? Something tells me they just nab Reinhart and butcher his career. Is there such thing as a centre graveyard?

I don't like over paying in assets especially for one unproven player. Too bad we can't just send them Edler for their 1st.

Yeah I was disregarding the overpayment because we get top notch assets of exactly what we're looking for. The puck moving D with star potential and the top end centre for Kesler. Not too mention hang on to a late first.

Corrado to Pouliot is a huge upgrade, the kind of player we've been screaming for. Reinhart may be unproven but your not going to get a better future centre for Ryan Kesler.

Next year you got Reinhart and Horvat battling for that second centre spot and Matthias keeping the pressure on them.

Sedin Sedin Jensen

Burrows Reinhart Kassian

Higgins Horvat Hansen

Sestito Richardson Matthias

Hamhuis Bieksa

Edler Tanev

Pouliot Garrison

Then pouliot puts the pressure on Edler, if DP starts stealing his ice time/PP time. He starts to become expendable.

[JeremyCuddles]

Yeah I was disregarding the overpayment because we get top notch assets of exactly what we're looking for. The puck moving D with star potential and the top end centre for Kesler. Not too mention hang on to a late first.

Corrado to Pouliot is a huge upgrade, the kind of player we've been screaming for. Reinhart may be unproven but your not going to get a better future centre for Ryan Kesler.

Next year you got Reinhart and Horvat battling for that second centre spot and Matthias keeping the pressure on them.

Sedin Sedin Jensen

Burrows Reinhart Kassian

Higgins Horvat Hansen

Sestito Richardson Matthias

Hamhuis Bieksa

Edler Tanev

Pouliot Garrison

Then pouliot puts the pressure on Edler, if DP starts stealing his ice time/PP time. He starts to become expendable.

My question is how isn't Ed not already expendable? Everytime he's on the ice I feel the need to jab forks into my retinas. Sad thing is we are stuck with him for the rest of his contract.

Maybe I just expect to get some crazy return for Kesler, got the over value players syndrome which is why I don't make proposals. Lol.

[thad]

My question is how isn't Ed not already expendable? Everytime he's on the ice I feel the need to jab forks into my retinas. Sad thing is we are stuck with him for the rest of his contract.

Maybe I just expect to get some crazy return for Kesler, got the over value players syndrome which is why I don't make proposals. Lol.

I still rank him above garrison by a mile. 29 other teams would love to have edler, he's a good player. He may have had a bad season, but so did every canuck not named Tanev, Higgins or Richardson.

I share your frustration but you need to take a step back and look at it. The frustration isn't he's an awful player that shouldn't play in the nhl, it's thad he had all the tools to be one of the best defensemen in the league but never really put them together consistently. The same could be said about pretty much any 5 million dollar dman in the league. That's the pay grade for the guy that should have been great but ended up just being pretty good.

If you want true greatness you gotta trade Horvat and 5 first round picks for an 8 million dollar man. If those assets aren't expendable then you have to settle for the 5 million dollar guys you drafted.

Doesn't matter if we have Alex Edler or Mike Green.. Your always going to want to stab your retinas watching this class of dman not become what he could have.