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17 minutes ago, g_bassi13 said:

They went into the offseason unwilling to pay the money to staff their pitchers properly. Now they don't have any stability in their bullpen, so they want to rip out their second best starter out of his spot to cover their bases, without having the requisite starter to replace him in the rotation. (Hutchison or Chavez?)

 

Good cheap baseball, Rogers. You got what you wanted with Shapiro. Saving money by leaving gaping holes in the roster. Good work.

 

Knowing that the first thing that Shapiro did when he came in was rip into the existing staff for trading away prospects under AA, there is literally zero chance that he trades one to fill up the hole that he left.

 

The management isn't treating this season like the last of the closing window that it is. God knows they're not signing both Bautista and Encarnacion back. Or perhaps not even either of them. I'm set for mediocrity, because that's the model that they're establishing for themselves.

 

I'm happy to see them winning in spite of these things in this run they have going for themselves. It's just frustrating to see a prospect succeeding, only to be cut off at the knees because management was too incompetent in other faculties. They're entirely and realistically in the hunt still, so I hope they make sure it's not squandered

Management won't make winning a priority.  We won't have a chance to win until ownership pays up for an actual team.

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3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Management won't make winning a priority.  We won't have a chance to win until ownership pays up for an actual team.

Thats why I miss AA  but its also one of the reasons he isnt here anymore.

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17 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

Jays will not sell out games with a mediocre team. They can expect mid20k attendance, not 35k per game. They're going to have to spend money to make money. There are plenty of other things to do in Toronto. 

Good.  Punish ownership for hiring this joke of a GM to destroy the team.

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1 minute ago, Down by the River said:

Jays will not sell out games with a mediocre team. They can expect mid20k attendance, not 35k per game. They're going to have to spend money to make money. There are plenty of other things to do in Toronto. 

Indeed. This is exactly what I was saying last off-season. The fans have seen "almost" good enough for over 2 decades now. They carried the longest active playoff drought streak for reasons that extend beyond their ability to groom prospects. 

 

They finally did something about it last year, but the owners and management instead of expanding on that nationwide hype that they saw, they had the potential of generating went back to business as usual. Literally operating as a business. 

 

They did nothing to build upon all of that interest, content to milk it until it runs dry, instead of committing and locking themselves to expenses that could/would extent into years down the road. Definitively lame duck ownership.

 

What was that Field of Dreams adage, "Build it, and they will come"? Well they gambled, built it, and they came in droves. Then they inexplicably decided to boot the architect and change course.

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19 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I thought the eventual BP move for Sanchez was more of a innings thing than help for the bullpen thing.  Still doesn't excuse not spending money on the bullpen in the summer.

 

17 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

Shutting down pitchers for an innings limit is common practice nowadays by most organizations other than Texas (thanks to Nolan Ryan). Whether it be because of injuries or fear or injuries, it happens. Sanchez us likely thrown a hell of a lot more innings than a guy his age would have twenty years ago. It sucks to see as a fan because he's been so good but I understand. They're looking to the future.

 

where I take issue with it is the apparent (IMO) lack of depth in the organization to cover for Sanchez when they do shut him down. Unless Chavez or Hutch or somebody can really step up, it'll be a huge loss for the team.

It's totally fair enough. But if they entered the season with zero intention to keeping him in the rotation, there should have been a better option taken up. Because if they're entire ploy was keeping Chavez in the 5 spot unless he was beaten by Sanchez in Spring Training for the right to half a season of play, their plan was incredibly flawed. There's not enough skill at the top of the rotation to makeup for a dearth of it in the last spot. Chavez is no goof, but his addition enough of one.

 

Perhaps they see it as a mandatory shift, but they're now just moving one hole to another, and into a more prominent spot at that. I mean we're already having to deal with Dickey and an under performing Stroman. Subtracting from the top and adding a third one of those to the rotation will make it look paltry compared to most in the MLB, and all that are actually intending to compete.

 

Knowing there is no intention to bring in outside help to bolster it is what leads to the frustration.

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1 hour ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

Shutting down pitchers for an innings limit is common practice nowadays by most organizations other than Texas (thanks to Nolan Ryan). Whether it be because of injuries or fear or injuries, it happens. Sanchez us likely thrown a hell of a lot more innings than a guy his age would have twenty years ago. It sucks to see as a fan because he's been so good but I understand. They're looking to the future.

 

where I take issue with it is the apparent (IMO) lack of depth in the organization to cover for Sanchez when they do shut him down. Unless Chavez or Hutch or somebody can really step up, it'll be a huge loss for the team.

If this is the case I guess it might be Gavin Floyd who will get into the rotation..he was in the mix for the 5th starter job right until opening day...has he even pitched lately.?

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22 minutes ago, g_bassi13 said:

 

It's totally fair enough. But if they entered the season with zero intention to keeping him in the rotation, there should have been a better option taken up. Because if they're entire ploy was keeping Chavez in the 5 spot unless he was beaten by Sanchez in Spring Training for the right to half a season of play, their plan was incredibly flawed. There's not enough skill at the top of the rotation to makeup for a dearth of it in the last spot. Chavez is no goof, but his addition enough of one.

 

Perhaps they see it as a mandatory shift, but they're now just moving one hole to another, and into a more prominent spot at that. I mean we're already having to deal with Dickey and an under performing Stroman. Subtracting from the top and adding a third one of those to the rotation will make it look paltry compared to most in the MLB, and all that are actually intending to compete.

 

Knowing there is no intention to bring in outside help to bolster it is what leads to the frustration.

Pretty much what I was saying in the bolded there

9 minutes ago, ShakyWalton said:

If this is the case I guess it might be Gavin Floyd who will get into the rotation..he was in the mix for the 5th starter job right until opening day...has he even pitched lately.?

Didn't he just pitch yesterday or the day before? I can't recall him pitching in a ton of real pressure situations lately though. Then again, I've had to watch most of their weekday games via Jays in 30 these last few weeks cause of work.

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3 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

Pretty much what I was saying in the bolded there

Didn't he just pitch yesterday or the day before? I can't recall him pitching in a ton of real pressure situations lately though. Then again, I've had to watch most of their weekday games via Jays in 30 these last few weeks cause of work.

I think he was in the mix because they had intentions all along to put Sanchez in the pen when it suited them...Sanchez for Gawd sakes is a stud and they should be doing everything in there power to groom him...what a bunch of tools

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51 minutes ago, ShakyWalton said:

If this is the case I guess it might be Gavin Floyd who will get into the rotation..he was in the mix for the 5th starter job right until opening day...has he even pitched lately.?

The only thing I fear with Gavin Floyd is he hasn't pitched over 55 innings since 2012 because of elbow issues. I believe he's had two elbow surgeries in three years on his throwing arm. I think Floyd is a valuable arm and would like to save his elbow by keeping his pitch count down (bullpen). When Sanchez gets moved to the pen Jays should move either Hutchison or Chavez into the rotation.

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26 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

The only thing I fear with Gavin Floyd is he hasn't pitched over 55 innings since 2012 because of elbow issues. I believe he's had two elbow surgeries in three years on his throwing arm. I think Floyd is a valuable arm and would like to save his elbow by keeping his pitch count down (bullpen). When Sanchez gets moved to the pen Jays should move either Hutchison or Chavez into the rotation.

probably Chavez..he started last year in Oakland...I wish they would just get a proven reliever and leave Sanchez in the rotation.

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3 hours ago, ShakyWalton said:

I think he was in the mix because they had intentions all along to put Sanchez in the pen when it suited them...Sanchez for Gawd sakes is a stud and they should be doing everything in there power to groom him...what a bunch of tools

I can't say I entirely disagree with the idea- they're doing it with eyes on the future. Problem is this team, and the organization, is built to win now. It bit Washington in the arse a couple years back when they shut down Strasburg IIRC. 

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Problem is Sanchez has said before he wants to be a starter not a bullpen guy.... So force a guy into the bullpen who doesn't want to be there, for their future... Not going to have him in your future if they keep this crap up with him, he will just ask to be traded eventually.

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12 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Just came on here to rant about what I read this morning at work, about how Gibbons has said it will happen eventually that Sanchez is going to the Bullpen. Their excuse is to save his arm because he's been so dominate, that he has pitched more innings then all the other starters. One of the stupidest things I have heard from a professional team in a long time, just a sad excuse to help out their bullpen instead of actually trading pieces to fix the bullpen. Frustration with this organization is really getting to me, and Rogers.

Moving Sanchez to the bullpen at some point has been the Jays' plan all season. They want to save his arm by limiting his innings. As Sean said, it's a common practice around the league.

 

10 hours ago, ShakyWalton said:

If this is the case I guess it might be Gavin Floyd who will get into the rotation..he was in the mix for the 5th starter job right until opening day...has he even pitched lately.?

The Jays might also call someone up.

 

Wade Leblanc is 7-2 in Buffalo, with a 1.51 ERA. His WHIP is 1.14 and he's a lefty, which helps balance out the rotation. Or, if they prefer more experience, there's Hutch. His overall numbers aren't as good as Leblanc's, but his WHIP is even better and he's quietly had a strong season with the Bisons.

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1 hour ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Problem is Sanchez has said before he wants to be a starter not a bullpen guy.... So force a guy into the bullpen who doesn't want to be there, for their future... Not going to have him in your future if they keep this crap up with him, he will just ask to be traded eventually.

The move isn't permanent. Sanchez understands this and although he probably isn't happy about it, he knows that in the long run, it's in his best interest.

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45 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

The move isn't permanent. Sanchez understands this and although he probably isn't happy about it, he knows that in the long run, it's in his best interest.

As frustrating as it may be for him, he should take solace in the fact the organization seems to care about him and sees him in their long-term plans. That much should be obvious anyway, but you never know.

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Buck and Tabby hardly ever mention Saunders when they are talking about hitting on the team,, Saunders is always a throw in....they say every body is starting to hit  blah blah.....when Saunders has the best BA on the team as well as best OBP ..also the 4th most dingers..lol

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2 minutes ago, ShakyWalton said:

They are going to have to do something about this sliding rule..its ruining the game..what a F%$&ing joke.

Following the game through an online tracker...wondered if the overturn was warranted. Guess not (I trust your judgement :P).

 

Now, to get back to my paperwork, perhaps a little more angrily. 

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2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Following the game through an online tracker...wondered if the overturn was warranted. Guess not (I trust your judgement :P).

 

Now, to get back to my paperwork, perhaps a little more angrily. 

The only thing I saw about the slide that could of overturned it was Pillar came up on all fours...must have considered that impedement...what a joke this new rule is.

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