Let me ask you a few Serious NHL Questions

[Alex the Great]

Okay, with recent events surrounding Evander Kane regarding him being scratched and having "attitude problems", I'd like to ask a very serious few questions.

1. If Evander Kane were white, would he be as heavily criticized? Or would it be categorized as having a strong will to win and it's because he's young and wants to play so of course he'll be upset if he doesn't play?

2. If Alex Ovechkin were Canadian, would people still care about his plus minus?

I'll give you an example why I think they wouldn't

Burnaby Joe, Joe Sakic, one of the most beloved Canadians in the NHL during his time, was incredibly low for plus/minus in his first few years :

102 points in 89-90 BUT he was a -40.

No one ever talks about that.

But ultimately, this is for you, CDC to answer.

3. If Nail Yakupov were Canadian, would people be judging him so heavily on a team like Edmonton or would they say he simply needs to adapt to the system and focus on the game?

Those are all the questions I have right now, if you have any more to add, feel free.

EDIT : I am not meaning to offend anyone by posting this topic, merely looking for answers.

[TOMapleLaughs]

1. Racism is a non-issue. People brought this up about Subban during the Olympics too. It's silly. I'll respond to this Evander Kane racism crap with the same question I asked when the Subban thing came up: Who assisted on Crosby's golden goal in 2010?

2. Sakic was on some awful Quebec teams early on. Not a comparable, really, other than to say plus/minus is an overrated stat. Plus/Minus is a team stat, but it's not that which bothers me about Ovechkin lately. It's the lazy play when coming back into his zone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9e5VWeKe8A

^This kinda sunday skate crap is totally intolerable in any pro league, and plainly deserves to be ripped, no matter what the name is on the back of the jersey. And this isn't the first time he's shown this disinterest, so yeah, he's going to get a deserved reputation.

Meanwhile, everyone praises Datsyuk to no end on his dedication, defensive skill and care level. So is this a xenophobic issue? Or an OV doesn't give a damn issue?

3. Yakupov's still a kid, so he should get a pass. He's also redundant on a team with so many one-dimensional wingers. imho Edmonton should've passed on him and drafted Murray instead. Esp. since he hasn't improved after Hemsky was dealt. Sophomore slump though. Have to wait 'n see.

[Absent Canuck]

The Nordiques looked and acted a lot like the Oilers do now. Sooner or later their talent will be so immense they will become great by default.

[Alex the Great]

1. Racism is a non-issue. People brought this up about Subban during the Olympics too. It's silly. I'll respond to this Evander Kane racism crap with the same question I asked when the Subban thing came up: Who assisted on Crosby's golden goal in 2010?

2. Sakic was on some awful Quebec teams early on. Not a comparable, really, other than to say plus/minus is an overrated stat. Plus/Minus is a team stat, but it's not that which bothers me about Ovechkin lately. It's the lazy play when coming back into his zone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9e5VWeKe8A

^This kinda sunday skate crap is totally intolerable in any pro league, and plainly deserves to be ripped, no matter what the name is on the back of the jersey. And this isn't the first time he's shown this disinterest, so yeah, he's going to get a deserved reputation.

Meanwhile, everyone praises Datsyuk to no end on his dedication, defensive skill and care level. So is this a xenophobic issue? Or an OV doesn't give a damn issue?

3. Yakupov's still a kid, so he should get a pass. He's also redundant on a team with so many one-dimensional wingers. imho Edmonton should've passed on him and drafted Murray instead. Esp. since he hasn't improved after Hemsky was dealt. Sophomore slump though. Have to wait 'n see.

I agree with nearly everything you said, I still feel there is some racism among the old boys club in the NHL but that's a whole othre topic.

I agree Sakic was on some horrid teams an Ovi is lazy, but it seems people are saying his 49 goal season isn't that big because he has a bad +/-

+/- is useless

[nuckin_futz]

That -40 was hardly Sakic's fault. In 89-90 the Nordiques used a total of 7 goalies none of whom could stop a beach ball.

They included Ron Tugnutt, Greg Millen, Scott Gordon, Mario Brunetta, Sergei Mylnikov, Staphane Fiset and John Tanner.

Tugnutt got the lion's share of net time and posted a stellar GAA of 4.61 and a Save % of .859.

Sakic's +/- that year was actually better than 4 of his team mates.

[TheRussianRocket.]

That -40 was hardly Sakic's fault. In 89-90 the Nordiques used a total of 7 goalies none of whom could stop a beach ball.

They included Ron Tugnutt, Greg Millen, Scott Gordon, Mario Brunetta, Sergei Mylnikov, Staphane Fiset and John Tanner.

Tugnutt got the lion's share of net time and posted a stellar GAA of 4.61 and a Save % of .859.

Sakic's +/- that year was actually better than 4 of his team mates.

[hockeyville88]

1. I don't think race has anything to do with it. E.Kane's attitude and off ice actions have led to that reputation. It's the same reason the Bruins traded away a their 2nd OVERALL pick and Stanley Cup winner in Tyler Seguin. Nothing to do with race. It's just...no one wants drama in the locker room.

2. I do think Ovechkin is a victim of the Russian reputation, but much like E.Kane, he has done something to deserve it. He's selfish about ice time, had public spats with Boudreau about not being given the role he wanted on the team, and most of all, he hasn't delivered on the biggest stages - playoffs and Olympics. You can see it when cameras isolate him on the ice. Yeah he's great at teeing up those one-timers from the half wall. But what about defensively? He's one of the laziest players when it comes to backchecking and defensive coverage. There are times where he's not even trying. I don't like the idea of a team where the Captain has deemed that he's too elite to play defensive hockey.

At the same time, I do think Crosby is sometimes hero-worshipped a bit too much because he's Canadian. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever heard anyone (by anyone I mean anyone credible) knock anything about Sid's game. He's the best player in the world for sure, but even he must have areas that require some work. I've never heard it brought up because everyone just operates under the knowledge that Sid does nothing wrong. That would probably not be the case if he was American or European. But again, he has backed it up. Won a Cup, won numerous NHL awards, won 2 Olympic Golds. Can't knock that after awhile I guess

3. Same answer as for Ovechkin. Canadians are not opposed to showing love for Europeans. Look at the love Selanne gets. Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Hasek, Naslund, etc. have all been shown the love by the N.American fans. But the key difference there is that they've earned it.

[TheRussianRocket.]

1.) if he was white, yes it'd be a work ethic/will to win problem and not attitude. Why? Just how it is. People portray whites and blacks and as bad as it is, it's the reality. But truth is he does have attitude problems so it doesn't matter anyways.

2.) yes they would. The fact Ovie scored no even strength goals in the month of March speaks a ton about his play. Yea +/- may a inaccurate stat but truth is Ovies defense and backcheck specifically isn't great at all and lacks effort on defense.

3.) again, yes he wouldn't be as heavily criticized due to the way society portrays certain nationality's and such etc as much as we don't want it to be.

[touchable]

That -40 was hardly Sakic's fault. In 89-90 the Nordiques used a total of 7 goalies none of whom could stop a beach ball.

They included Ron Tugnutt, Greg Millen, Scott Gordon, Mario Brunetta, Sergei Mylnikov, Staphane Fiset and John Tanner.

Tugnutt got the lion's share of net time and posted a stellar GAA of 4.61 and a Save % of .859.

Sakic's +/- that year was actually better than 4 of his team mates.

Also, it's ridiculous to compare Sakic's stats as a 19-21 year old in a different era to Ovechkin's stats as a 28 year old in his prime today. That's really cherry-picking.

[Browntown01]

If a white player were to do this would he have been as heavily criticized as Kane?

[Goal:thecup]

You missed Patrick 15 Cent Kane?

Darn, I tried not to post in this stupid thread.

[Alex the Great]

You missed Patrick 15 Cent Kane?

Darn, I tried not to post in this stupid thread.

He beat up a Cab Driver..

not much to argue about that.

[TheRussianRocket.]

Not hockey, but Johnny Manziel got put down for an atm money celebration on field...he got it quite hard too and he's white by espn for a saga that's been going on for a year now him being the most talked about lol.

[gfyracing]

Those years used for an example for Sakic were a different era for the NHL when scoring actually happened in bunches fairly often. Hence goalies weren't as good and +- wasn't as good for some players on the bad teams. Also this was before the great players were expected to play a great two way game and all they were out for was offence. A great example is Yzerman who experienced a major change under Bowman which enabled him to have a more complete game which then let him lead his team to the stanely cup.

So on topic there's no race card being played in this example, he got suspended for a poor attitude, sounds pretty cut and dry to me.

Oh and Sakic isn't the best example, there are lots of fans that think Sakic couldn't lead much of anything as judged by the 2006 Olympic team he captained in Turin. Yes he won two cups, one with Patrick Roy in net and the other with one of the best defensemen of the day, Ray Bourque.

[Goal:thecup]

The racist part of this thread is so ignorant and quite disgusting.

Is there something in OP's head that makes him look at the world this way?

Personally, I didn't even think of Evander as a "black" person before this thread.

How much "black" does it take mixed into "white" to define "black"?

How much "white" does it take mixed into "black" to define "white"?

This is so creepy it reminds me of the Nazi eugenics and "pure Nordic blood".

The nationalist prejudice against Russians has already been well-debated, reflects the existence of the threat posed by the KHL, and is not particularly applicable in the instances cited by the OP.

Of course Sakic is revered; he was great! OV could have whatever plus/minus and he would still be criticized for his selfish attitude, lack of effort defensively, and inability to succeed when it really counts (in the NHL and for Russia).

Yakupov is a head case regardless of where he is from, but yeah, Edmonton must worry about him bolting to the KHL so they have to have him in the lineup and try to keep him happy.

Probably if he was a Canadian, they would have sent him down by now.

Nationalism is alive and well and probably causes as many problems for the world as religion; you don't have to try this hard to find it. But the players cited are criticized for their on-ice performance.

[khay]

The Nordiques looked and acted a lot like the Oilers do now. Sooner or later their talent will be so immense they will become great by default.

... but they will only win the cup after they move to some US city.

[Alex the Great]

The racist part of this thread is so ignorant and quite disgusting.

Is there something in OP's head that makes him look at the world this way?

Personally, I didn't even think of Evander as a "black" person before this thread.

How much "black" does it take mixed into "white" to define "black"?

How much "white" does it take mixed into "black" to define "white"?

This is so creepy it reminds me of the Nazi eugenics and "pure Nordic blood".

Are you kidding me? I was asking a damn question.

[BI3KSA-]

The racist part of this thread is so ignorant and quite disgusting.

Is there something in OP's head that makes him look at the world this way?

Personally, I didn't even think of Evander as a "black" person before this thread.

How much "black" does it take mixed into "white" to define "black"?

How much "white" does it take mixed into "black" to define "white"?

This is so creepy it reminds me of the Nazi eugenics and "pure Nordic blood".

Dude wtf are you talking about. The OP's question, while I don't agree its true, is a fairly valid question. You took it to an entirely different, weird level.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Yeah... That's why the racism/race issue is better to avoid entirely. Xenophobia is bad enough.

[Alex the Great]

Yeah... That's why the racism/race issue is better to avoid entirely. Xenophobia is bad enough.

I had bad feelings about asking that question for this very reason, but I didn't think I'd go into Nazi territory...