TrevorLinden4ever Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 For the sake of branding a meaning on things, let’s refer to “Moneyball management” as a GM using analytics regardless of what the payroll. Let’s refer to “Moneyball economics”, as exemplified in the movie, as using analytics to manage a team on a restricted low payroll, much like the meritorious Oakland Athletics. I happen to think the meritorious latter is interesting because it forces a GM to look deep into all corners and depths to find the Scott Hattebergs of hockey, as Dave Nonis admirably did when he signed Burrows out of the ECHL, but I digress. With that noted, $15 a month will buy you membership to Trevor Linden’s fitness centre. (I would call it an awesome deal by an awesome guy, but he just fired Torts so I’ll have to withhold the compliment as I’m peeved right now). However, by comparison, $150 will buy you one game at Rogers Arena. As a consumer, would I rather see high-salaried underachieving players like Edler and Booth play losing uninspired hockey or go out to a White Caps soccer game after an hour of working the treadmills at a fraction of the price combined? Speaking of combined economic value, the movie Moneyball starring Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill was more entertaining than the entire Canucks 2013-2014 season. It also indulged sports fans in the idea that, in the words and actions of Brad Pitts character Billy Beane, not only is baseball a “romantic sport”, but that a team that wins on a low payroll is something to be inspired over. The “we are all Canucks motto” is something for people who can afford their tickets and don’t mind watching a 2013-2014 Canucks, but it’s doubtful the average season ticket holder valued last years product. The truth is, hockey is so popular here that it can be a premium sport without having a premium on-ice product – take the valueless season of 2014. The question is how long can they milk that cow? Having a GM in here that views hockey as a privileged source of entertainment regardless of product quality, and unlike Billy Beane, is non-reactionary, will likely take this team further down the slope into the realms of inviability. The Canucks brass could take the example of Moneyball. Moneyball told us that it was hard work, creativity and prudency in sourcing out players that optimized the Oakland Athletics without the luxuries of payroll largesse. In fact, because Billy Beane had no choice but to trade in order to slash payroll, he was forced to innovate his approach, work harder and look for talent that mainstream MLB GM’s and scouts otherwise ignored or missed, and to that end the Oakland Athletics had more and continue to have more success than many of the highest payrolls in MLB. Let’s take the present as an example which have the Oakland A’s winning by a WHOPPING 12-1 against the Rangers and are now on top of the AL Western Division at 18-10. Back to Canuckville, the cheapest Canucks ticket is considerably more expensive than the MLB. They will never be as affordable than at Oakland Coliseum but if they’re going to maintain the relevancy of their organizations motto, then they could slash the payroll and correlate that to ticket prices. Option two is to continue to have a boring, high priced on-ice product and maintain or increase ticket prices till the cow dries up. Option three is to continue to pay players to play against us like we’ve done with Lu and Ballard and maintain or increase ticket prices, till the cow dries up. Option three is the worst of the worst, and ticketholders should be disgusted if we have to bear the burden of another buyout or partial payments on the salaries of Booth, Edler or Garrison. We already owe a fantastic coach we fired 4 more years of heavy salary. If they can bring in a Billy Beane smart guy and magically execute certain roster rearrangements and win with a payroll at the cap then great, but let’s just hope a GM of another ilk doesn’t continue this trend we’ve had of losing with a few inflated salaries in tow. Help me out here but is it even possible to keep maxing out the cap and lose in the first round of the playoffs while lowering ticket prices and cover your profit margins through other streams? Sounds stretchy. Do not player salaries take up over half the total yearly costs of the organization during the season, if not more? Overall I tend to think that aligning the business side more closely to the on-ice product and incentivizing success is the most effective approach rather than buttressing the marketing and relations departments whom have exhaustively exploited the popular status of the sport in this city. You can only punch in so many pleasant adjectives and how we are all in this thing together, because “we are all Canucks” who want to pay top dollar to see losing, boring hockey, just like Pat Quinns Canucks from ’96 to right before they hired Burkie. Uh, yeah right! If you can’t win, then you won’t make the playoffs. A few of the faithful might even take out the calculator and notice that getting their hockey fix at the Ducks Pond through a vacation promo is a better deal. Heck, why not throw in the Oakland A’s while they’re at it? Whether or not the Canucks hire a GM who can deliver, a Billy Beane of hockey if you will like hockey analytics guru Mike Smith…well it is unlikely anyway because the sports media here knows everything and they only narrow in on the big names that rock their socks. But regardless of how slow to adopt or adapt the NHL is, the analytics mode – which is what has worked wonders for the Oakland Athletics for the past 15 years, looks to make waves in the future in pro sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 TIL every problem on the team can be cured with baseball metaphors, movie references and Brad Pitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterHorvatBure Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 What the ***** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 For what it's with OP, I know what you're saying. But sadly in the NHL with it's climate and pay/contact structures the whole premise doesn't really work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorLinden4ever Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 For what it's with OP, I know what you're saying. But sadly in the NHL with it's climate and pay/contact structures the whole premise doesn't really work Dude, you didn't even read the dang thing half intently. Let me take you back to the first sentence: For the sake of branding a meaning on things, let’s refer to “Moneyball management” as a GM using analytics regardless of what the payroll. You've compartmentalized the whole approach of analytics to only certain sports. Hockey has used it, so does the MLB and NBA. The tiresome reference to Billy Beane was mention of how he used it within a restricted payroll. http://iianalytics.com/2009/06/analytics-and-the-nhl/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Insert cricket chirp here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think everyone in this site is a little more stupid for reading 99% of any threads started in the last 3 days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Nice effort bud. 10/10. Too bad people won't understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think everyone in this site is a little more stupid for reading 99% of any threads started in the last 3 days... not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterHorvatBure Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 not me Your profile picture is heavenly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I appreciate someone who spends time to research, and then craft, an opinion such as the OP has here .. agree or not .. understand or not .. I commend you on a very 'wry' analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorLinden4ever Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 I appreciate someone who spends time to research, and then craft, an opinion such as the OP has here .. agree or not .. understand or not .. I commend you on a very 'wry' analysis. Thanks bud. You and I are on the same page regarding Torts, I thought changing it up to focus on the type of manager we want would be a "moving on" relevant discussion. For people who dont understand, I was just exploring idea of getting a GM who would apply analytics in their work. Rent the movie Moneyball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I don't know if you follow baseball or not but with Oakland not actually winning anything, do you think that would fly in this market? Do you think fans would be happy about Sabremetrics and having no success in the post season? The guy who was Beane's assistant who crunched the numbers, he hasn't had any success either. And he has been with teams that have unlimited resources for payroll and still can't field a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorLinden4ever Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 I don't know if you follow baseball or not but with Oakland not actually winning anything, do you think that would fly in this market? Do you think fans would be happy about Sabremetrics and having no success in the post season? The guy who was Beane's assistant who crunched the numbers, he hasn't had any success either. And he has been with teams that have unlimited resources for payroll and still can't field a winner. Take a look at their record the past 15 years: http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/oak/history/year_by_year_results.jsp 2012 and 2013 theyve been first in the AL West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 It hasn't translated into post season success for them and the franchise is still a struggle financially. They also made the playoffs 5 or so years ago too but they still have a hard time getting fans to watch them. Of course one problem is that most teams are doing the same thing now and competing with salary's for the same players. The Burrows example was a perfect comparison hockey wise but all teams are looking for those gems in the rough. I'm not sure in hockey how they would make it work more so than other teams making it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorLinden4ever Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 It hasn't translated into post season success for them and the franchise is still a struggle financially. They also made the playoffs 5 or so years ago too but they still have a hard time getting fans to watch them. Of course one problem is that most teams are doing the same thing now and competing with salary's for the same players. The Burrows example was a perfect comparison hockey wise but all teams are looking for those gems in the rough. I'm not sure in hockey how they would make it work more so than other teams making it work. Dude, you are rferencing too much the Oakland A's example and their financial situation. The Canucks are not in such predicament. The A's are trying to get a new ballpark and ownership isnt building towers on his stadium. The thing you refuse to analise is the fact that, for having one of the lowest budgets in the MLB, the A's have done things other teams on average at a low payroll and weak market never accomplish such as consecutive wins record. They are first right now in the AL West so i think I'm comfortable with my take on that team. You have probably not even heard Mike Smiths interview where he mentions that all five of his NHL clients made the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Rio Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Billy Beane still didn't win a championship...Moneyball theory can only take you so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Dude, you are rferencing too much the Oakland A's example and their financial situation. The Canucks are not in such predicament. The A's are trying to get a new ballpark and ownership isnt building towers on his stadium. The thing you refuse to analise is the fact that, for having one of the lowest budgets in the MLB, the A's have done things other teams on average at a low payroll and weak market never accomplish such as consecutive wins record. They are first right now in the AL West so i think I'm comfortable with my take on that team. You have probably not even heard Mike Smiths interview where he mentions that all five of his NHL clients made the playoffs. The consecutive wins record is ... well not much at the end of a season. Kind of like the Canucks winning the president trophy. No one remembers unless you win a cup. So we hire Mike Smith, is this the answer for the Canucks? Is this what this whole post is about? How about we hire the guy who made the decision to sign Marty St Louis in Calgary after no one else wanted him. I wonder why Mike Smith didn't have numbers on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I dont think Burrows was found as a result of analytics. ie mathematical analysis of performance, probably computer aided... I imagine scouts watched an ECHLplayer with an extreme level of feist and competitiveness. Who fought guys who outweighed him by 20 lbs, and were minor league hired goons. Then boarded guys on the fore check the very first shift out of the box. That's the legend. The same scouts who watched this and licked their chops would have observed well above average speed and puck skills which supported the player. Its hard to miss aguy who outworks everyone else on the ice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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