Swiss to vote in referendum on world's highest minimum wage - Update: No

[DonLever]

From the Guardian:

Switzerland will put a proposal for the world's highest minimum wage to a national referendum on Sunday.

The proposal is for a 22 Swiss francs (£14.70) an hour and if voted through it would put a salary floor under the average 35-hour week of more than £27,000.

Ministers have fought the proposal, made by the SGB union and supported by the Socialist and Green parties, saying it will put smaller firms out of business.

While Switzerland is renowned as a home for hedge fund managers, a secretive banking sector and one of the highest per capita incomes in the world, more than 20% of its GDP comes from an increasingly beleaguered manufacturing sector.

A recent opinion poll by gfs.bern found that 64% of voters were against the proposal, but in a recent referendum voters unexpectedly forced the parliament to draw up plans to curb EU immigration.

Cristina Gaggini, director of the Geneva office of the Swiss business association, Economiesuisse, told the BBC: "I think it's an own goal, for workers as well as for small companies in Switzerland."

She added: "Studies show that a minimum wage can lead to much more unemployment and poverty than it helps people. And for very small companies it would be very problematic to afford such a high salary."

The move follows a string of campaigns across the developed world for higher basic wages. Two weeks ago, the mayor of Seattle, Washington, unveiled a plan for a city-wide minimum wage of $15 (£8.91)), more than double the federal minimum rate.

Next month the Bundestag is due to vote on a bill to introduce Germany's first national minimum wage of €8.50 (£7). Under the Swiss system, parliament can call a referendum or citizens can demand one if they can gather 100,000 signatures in support.

The government sets out its position on the issue - and has won 75%t of plebiscites - but does not fall if voters ignore it.

[asian player]

Why is Switzerland so damn likeable

[Armada]

Why is Switzerland so damn likeable

The mountains and the skiing is nice.

But from every experience I've had there, the people are uptight and strict and not entirely welcoming.

The least "chill" country in Europe imo.

[DefCon1]

Why is Switzerland so damn likeable

Its because of Swiss chocolates. God damn, they taste so good.

[Lancaster]

Before people start trumpeting about how "progressive" this move is.... the average cost of living in Switzerland is way way above North America.

[Offensive Threat]

That minimum wage in Canadian dollars is $26.81 . Imagine owning a small business and having to pay a kid out of high school that amount to stock shelves or any other entry level job. Even at 35 hours a week, which seems to be their norm, thats almost $50K a year. Hard to compete in the world market at those pay rates.

[Ghostsof1915]

That minimum wage in Canadian dollars is $26.81 . Imagine owning a small business and having to pay a kid out of high school that amount to stock shelves or any other entry level job. Even at 35 hours a week, which seems to be their norm, thats almost $50K a year. Hard to compete in the world market at those pay rates.

It's all relative. Because if that kid stocking shelves has to pay $1708 per month rent for a small studio apartment. Switzerland is like here in terms of real estate is insanely expensive.

(Courtesy of the Global Property Guide)

As much as I love Vancouver being born and raised here. Our real estate makes no sense. Unlike California, we don't have a dynamic economy. Yet our housing prices are way out of whack for what people earn. You can get a starter home in Long Beach California for the price of a townhouse here. In fact you can get a three bedroom house in Honolulu for under $600,000.

(Don't ask me how you'll make money there...)

[taxi]

The referendum failed miserably.

[Blame Obama]

minimum wage should be $14.50 here too!!!

[nuckin_futz]

Swiss voters reject minimum wage, fighter jets

GENEVA (AP) — Worried about upsetting Switzerland's strong economy or driving its high costs even higher, more than three-quarters of Swiss voters rejected a plan Sunday to create the world's highest minimum wage and slightly more than half spurned a request to outfit the Swiss Air Force with 22 new fighter jets.

A tally by Swiss TV showed that with votes counted in all 26 of the Alpine nation's cantons (states), the Swiss trade union's idea of making the minimum wage 22 Swiss francs ($24.70) per hour fell flat by a vote of 76.3 percent opposed and 23.7 percent in favor.

The military's controversial request to spend 3.1 billion francs ($3.5 billion) for Saab's new Gripen fighter jets was narrowly defeated, with 53.4 percent against it and 46.6 percent who supported the purchase.

At a news conference in the Swiss capital Bern, members of the Federal Council of seven ministers, which includes the president, confirmed the vote results. They welcomed the decision on the minimum wage proposal. Trade unions had proposed it as a way of fighting poverty in a country that, by some measures, features the world's highest prices and most expensive cities.

But opinion polls had indicated that most voters sided with the council and business leaders, who argued it would cost jobs and erode economic competitiveness, driving Switzerland's high costs even higher.

"A fixed salary has never been a good way to fight the problem," Economy Minister Johann Schneider-Ammann said in Bern.

A woman enters a polling station in Bern, Switzerland Sunday May 18, 2014.

"If the initiative had been accepted, it would have led to workplace losses, especially in rural areas where less qualified people have a harder time finding jobs," he said. "The best remedy against poverty is work."

The proposal would have eclipsed the existing highest minimum wages in force elsewhere in Europe. Switzerland has no minimum wage, but the median hourly wage is about 33 francs ($37) an hour.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which adjusts figures for spending power, lists the highest current minimum wage as Luxembourg's at $10.66 an hour, followed by France at $10.60, Australia at $10.21, Belgium at $9.97, and the Netherlands at $9.48. The U.S. wage, an adjusted $7.11 down from the actual $7.25 rate, came 10th on the list.

Adjusted for its high prices, Switzerland's wage proposal would have represented about $14 an hour based on a 42-hour work week.

The nation's defense minister, Ueli Maurer, who had pushed hard for the Gripen purchased, acknowledged the vote exposed wide "differences" in levels of support around the country that would need to be addressed because of "the void that will be created in our country in terms of aviation security."

Voters wait outside a polling station in Bern, Switzerland Sunday May 18, 2014.

Voters also faced two other decisions at the polls Sunday, a result of Switzerland's unique system of popular rule that is expressed in endless citizen-inspired referendums, a weak federal government and strong cantonal governments.

An initiative to amend the nation's constitution by imposing a lifetime ban on convicted pedophiles working with children won support throughout the nation by a vote of 63.5 percent to 36.5 percent.

Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said the vote sent a clear message of concern about protecting children against sexual abuse. But she cautioned that the new constitutional provision would require a ban to be "automatically applied without distinction" between predators and a young adult who sleeps with his girlfriend, if she is a minor.

"This fact poses a problem and the Federal Council will have to see how to apply this initiative," she said.

A medical reform measure to provide constitutional support for more family doctors in rural areas passed overwhelmingly by a vote of 88 percent to 12 percent.

http://news.yahoo.com/swiss-voters-reject-minimum-wage-fighter-jets-160832256--finance.html

[Offensive Threat]

It's all relative. Because if that kid stocking shelves has to pay $1708 per month rent for a small studio apartment. Switzerland is like here in terms of real estate is insanely expensive.

Still makes it extremely difficult to compete in manufacturing for export vs any other country when you are paying twice as much in labor to build the same item. Switzerlands big export is timepieces which, when you choose a swiss made watch. are based on quality over price. But watch sales are sliding worldwide.

The 25% reduction in bank deposits since the laws were changed to allow banking information to be passed to the IRS starting in 2011 is another indication that maybe now is not the best time to hike the minimum wage so much.

[NightHawkSniper]

The mountains and the skiing is nice.

But from every experience I've had there, the people are uptight and strict and not entirely welcoming.

The least "chill" country in Europe imo.

Considering how crowded they are getting I understand, poor people from eastern european countries that are a part of the EU immigrate there lowering the quality of life.

[Offensive Threat]

Considering how crowded they are getting I understand, poor people from eastern european countries that are a part of the EU immigrate there lowering the quality of life.

Every wealthy European nation is facing this. Whenever a country joins the EU their policy of free movement of people across the union sees people from the poorer countries heading to the wealthier ones. Its exacerbated in Switzerland due to its very small size and relative wealth. Though immigration has trailed off in recent years there are a few countries listed as candidates for EU membership right now that could bring new waves of immigration. (Iceland, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey)

[NightHawkSniper]

Every wealthy European nation is facing this. Whenever a country joins the EU their policy of free movement of people across the union sees people from the poorer countries heading to the wealthier ones. Its exacerbated in Switzerland due to its very small size and relative wealth. Though immigration has trailed off in recent years there are a few countries listed as candidates for EU membership right now that could bring new waves of immigration. (Iceland, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey)

EU is such a joke, I'm sure most of the wealthy nations wish there was a way out of it.

[Mr. Ambien]

Makes sense from their perspective. A government imposed price floor would have rather devastating impacts, and capitalism works just fine within their constraints.

[Buddhas Hand]

Still makes it extremely difficult to compete in manufacturing for export vs any other country when you are paying twice as much in labor to build the same item. Switzerlands big export is timepieces which, when you choose a swiss made watch. are based on quality over price. But watch sales are sliding worldwide.

The 25% reduction in bank deposits since the laws were changed to allow banking information to be passed to the IRS starting in 2011 is another indication that maybe now is not the best time to hike the minimum wage so much.

Swiss Banks to Keep Swiss and Not U.S., Laws

Julian Phillips 06/25/2013

Swiss parliament rejected a bill designed to resolve a dispute over undeclared bank accounts held by U.S. citizens last week.

The portrayal of the assault of the IRS against Swiss Banks has usually been seen from a U.S. perspective. There is an insinuation that the IRS will put Swiss banks in their place, and they certainly do have the power to do that, provided it is against the branches of the Swiss banks inside the U.S. While the Swiss have complied with the IRS to some extent, through the revelation of tax evaders names inside the UBS branches in the U.S. (4,500 out of 45,000 U.S. citizens with UBS accounts) the Swiss are not cow-towing to the IRS demands in disclosing all names of U.S. clients they have despite the pressure from the IRS to do so.

Rejection of U.S. Taxpaying Clients

The initial reaction of Swiss companies and some banks, with branches inside the U.S. after the UBS story and with FBAT and FATCA, the new U.S. Tax reporting systems coming into place –their initial reaction has been to reject U.S. taxpaying clients from their books, to avoid confrontations in the future. [Contact us for info on how to avoid this] But now with the Swiss Parliament taking such a strong stand, we see Switzerland in a new light.

Why then, when other nations have been complying with the U.S. authorities, have the Swiss taken a strong stand on this? After all, whether it is Singapore or Hong Kong or any other ‘Tax Haven”, if the government of that country see that it is in their commercial interests to comply with the U.S. authorities, there is nothing a company in that Jurisdiction can do to oppose them.

Where Does Switzerland Stand Now?

For more than 350 years, Switzerland has fought outside power’s efforts to get information on who holds banks accounts in their country. The Swiss have resisted all the way through world wars where powerful enemies were on their borders. The protection of secrecy of Swiss bank accounts and assets held there has become one of the backbones of the Swiss economy.

With Swiss Banks growing internationally to such an extent, Swiss bankers thought that they could sway the Swiss government to support them.

The laws in Switzerland that make it punishable by imprisonment to disclose Swiss bank account holders, applies to Swiss Bankers as well. Hence the attempt to pass a law to allow Swiss banks to cooperate with the United States’ IRS. But consistent with history and in protection of account holders in Switzerland, members of the Swiss parliament’s lower house voted 123 to 63 against the bill. The government has said it has no plan B, in the event of the bill failing to pass.

Let’s be clear on this: the Swiss government has said “no” to their own bankers, placing Swiss interests ahead of Swiss banker’s interests.

U.S. Terms

The bill, which the country’s banks supported, divided institutions into four categories based on the size of their American business and allowed them to hand over some information, though not client names. Parliamentarians criticized it because the terms of the program, such as fines, were determined by the U.S. and hadn’t been made public.

The no vote could lead to a another Swiss bank facing criminal charges in the U.S., which could impact the economy, Swiss Finance Minister, Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf said. Any decree the government could pass instead of a bill would have a smaller scope and not meet all the U.S. requests.

The Swiss Bankers Association regretted parliament’s decision, saying it was hard to gauge the consequences of the step for the banking sector and the economy.

After the upper house approved the bill last week, the lower house then rejected it last week, triggering a process to resolve the disagreement between the two chambers. The upper house reaffirmed its verdict in favor of the bill. Both chambers urged the government to solve the disagreement with existing law.

While the Swiss have no desire to protect lawbreakers and will hand over information and assets of people in Switzerland who can be proved to have broken the law, the concept that the U.S. will have to apply fines or gather information inside Switzerland is not acceptable there. Switzerland will retain that power in Switzerland. Swiss Bankers will have to work out their own future within these laws.

What Does This Say About Switzerland as a Place to Hold Gold, etc…?

There has been a lot of talk about other places to hold assets including gold –whether it be Singapore, Hong Kong, the U.K. or Canada—but none of these places have a history of protecting foreign-owned assets against nations seeking to either take them or get information about them. If it were deemed even slightly against national interests, we believe those governments or companies (particularly those with branches inside the U.S.) would happily hand over one or both to a nation such as the U.S. Take Canada for instance; it is fused at the hip to U.S. interests and to its economy. Should the U.S. require them to work with them on those they deem acting against U.S. interests, history shows that they will cooperate with the U.S. on information disclosure and asset seizure.

In Switzerland, we see a nation fighting to protect such foreign clients, despite the potential cost to themselves. We cannot see any other country following their footsteps.

This is dated this time last year , i cannot find any information that indicates the Swiss have changed their banking laws since this article was published.

As the author notes at the end of his article Switzerland has been a nation fighting to protect such foreign clients, despite the potential cost to themselves for more than 350 years , it does not seem like any country is willing to go to the same lengths to protect their banks clients.

[Offensive Threat]

This is dated this time last year , i cannot find any information that indicates the Swiss have changed their banking laws since this article was published.

As the author notes at the end of his article Switzerland has been a nation fighting to protect such foreign clients, despite the potential cost to themselves for more than 350 years , it does not seem like any country is willing to go to the same lengths to protect their banks clients.

Do you really believe the Swiss banks are working so hard to resist these changes because they are trying to protect their clients? They are trying to protect their profits and not be indicted by the US justice Dept. for aiding American citizens to defraud the US federal Government. Not just US arms of Swiss banks. Swiss banks and bankers directly in Switzerland have been indicted.In January 2013, Wegelin & Co., Switzerlands oldest bank, pleaded guilty in a New York court to allowing more than 100 American citizens to hide $1.2 billion from the IRS over a 10-year period. Although the bank's practice is legal under Swiss law.

From Forbes.com : The current crackdown on offshore accounts began in earnest in 2009. UBS Bank, Switzerland’s largest, avoided prosecution by admitting it encouraged tax evasion and paying a $780 million criminal fine. It later turned over the names of 4700 of its American depositors. Soon after the UBS plea bargain the IRS offered the first of a series of three voluntary disclosure programs to those with offshore accounts whose names were not yet known to the Service.

The Justice Department also indicted Switzerland’s oldest bank, Wegelin Bank. The bank subsequently failed and entered a guilty plea resulting in a $75 million dollar fine.

Source:http://www.forbes.com/sites/irswatch/2014/02/03/swiss-bank-secrecy-succumbs-to-u-s-tax-enforcers/

So 43,000 Americans have come forward during the last few years during amnesties from prosecution to declare their assets being hidden in foreign banks. Mostly in Switzerland. Amnesty from prosecution,not from taxation. They still have to pay all their back taxes on the foreign held assets. Once declared there was no longer any reason to hold the funds in those accounts there and a large percentage of those funds have come back to the US or been moved to other investments. So in a nutshell Americans are no longer putting funds in Swiss banks and are removing the funds they have there.

[Mr. Ambien]

Do you really believe the Swiss banks are working so hard to resist these changes because they are trying to protect their clients? They are trying to protect their profits and not be indicted by the US justice Dept. for aiding American citizens to defraud the US federal Government. Not just US arms of Swiss banks. Swiss banks and bankers directly in Switzerland have been indicted.In January 2013, Wegelin & Co., Switzerlands oldest bank, pleaded guilty in a New York court to allowing more than 100 American citizens to hide $1.2 billion from the IRS over a 10-year period. Although the bank's practice is legal under Swiss law.

From Forbes.com : The current crackdown on offshore accounts began in earnest in 2009. UBS Bank, Switzerland’s largest, avoided prosecution by admitting it encouraged tax evasion and paying a $780 million criminal fine. It later turned over the names of 4700 of its American depositors. Soon after the UBS plea bargain the IRS offered the first of a series of three voluntary disclosure programs to those with offshore accounts whose names were not yet known to the Service.

The Justice Department also indicted Switzerland’s oldest bank, Wegelin Bank. The bank subsequently failed and entered a guilty plea resulting in a $75 million dollar fine.

Source:http://www.forbes.com/sites/irswatch/2014/02/03/swiss-bank-secrecy-succumbs-to-u-s-tax-enforcers/

So 43,000 Americans have come forward during the last few years during amnesties from prosecution to declare their assets being hidden in foreign banks. Mostly in Switzerland. Amnesty from prosecution,not from taxation. They still have to pay all their back taxes on the foreign held assets. Once declared there was no longer any reason to hold the funds in those accounts there and a large percentage of those funds have come back to the US or been moved to other investments. So in a nutshell Americans are no longer putting funds in Swiss banks and are removing the funds they have there.

With FATCA it would be pointless now.

[Buddhas Hand]

Do you really believe the Swiss banks are working so hard to resist these changes because they are trying to protect their clients? They are trying to protect their profits and not be indicted by the US justice Dept. for aiding American citizens to defraud the US federal Government. Not just US arms of Swiss banks. Swiss banks and bankers directly in Switzerland have been indicted.In January 2013, Wegelin & Co., Switzerlands oldest bank, pleaded guilty in a New York court to allowing more than 100 American citizens to hide $1.2 billion from the IRS over a 10-year period. Although the bank's practice is legal under Swiss law.

From Forbes.com : The current crackdown on offshore accounts began in earnest in 2009. UBS Bank, Switzerland’s largest, avoided prosecution by admitting it encouraged tax evasion and paying a $780 million criminal fine. It later turned over the names of 4700 of its American depositors. Soon after the UBS plea bargain the IRS offered the first of a series of three voluntary disclosure programs to those with offshore accounts whose names were not yet known to the Service.

The Justice Department also indicted Switzerland’s oldest bank, Wegelin Bank. The bank subsequently failed and entered a guilty plea resulting in a $75 million dollar fine.

Source:http://www.forbes.com/sites/irswatch/2014/02/03/swiss-bank-secrecy-succumbs-to-u-s-tax-enforcers/

So 43,000 Americans have come forward during the last few years during amnesties from prosecution to declare their assets being hidden in foreign banks. Mostly in Switzerland. Amnesty from prosecution,not from taxation. They still have to pay all their back taxes on the foreign held assets. Once declared there was no longer any reason to hold the funds in those accounts there and a large percentage of those funds have come back to the US or been moved to other investments. So in a nutshell Americans are no longer putting funds in Swiss banks and are removing the funds they have there.

They are trying to protect their profits by protecting their clients , their sole motivation is to make money.

I was never saying they were just protecting their clients , I was pointing out that the Swiss Govt. had not relaxed their banking laws within Switzerland and they would not hand over information to the IRS when it pertained to clients within Switzerland.

[DefCon1]

Do you really believe the Swiss banks are working so hard to resist these changes because they are trying to protect their clients? They are trying to protect their profits and not be indicted by the US justice Dept. for aiding American citizens to defraud the US federal Government. Not just US arms of Swiss banks. Swiss banks and bankers directly in Switzerland have been indicted.In January 2013, Wegelin & Co., Switzerlands oldest bank, pleaded guilty in a New York court to allowing more than 100 American citizens to hide $1.2 billion from the IRS over a 10-year period. Although the bank's practice is legal under Swiss law.

From Forbes.com : The current crackdown on offshore accounts began in earnest in 2009. UBS Bank, Switzerland’s largest, avoided prosecution by admitting it encouraged tax evasion and paying a $780 million criminal fine. It later turned over the names of 4700 of its American depositors. Soon after the UBS plea bargain the IRS offered the first of a series of three voluntary disclosure programs to those with offshore accounts whose names were not yet known to the Service.

The Justice Department also indicted Switzerland’s oldest bank, Wegelin Bank. The bank subsequently failed and entered a guilty plea resulting in a $75 million dollar fine.

Source:http://www.forbes.com/sites/irswatch/2014/02/03/swiss-bank-secrecy-succumbs-to-u-s-tax-enforcers/

So 43,000 Americans have come forward during the last few years during amnesties from prosecution to declare their assets being hidden in foreign banks. Mostly in Switzerland. Amnesty from prosecution,not from taxation. They still have to pay all their back taxes on the foreign held assets. Once declared there was no longer any reason to hold the funds in those accounts there and a large percentage of those funds have come back to the US or been moved to other investments. So in a nutshell Americans are no longer putting funds in Swiss banks and are removing the funds they have there.

They are trying to protect their profits by protecting their clients , their sole motivation is to make money.

I was never saying they were just protecting their clients , I was pointing out that the Swiss Govt. had not relaxed their banking laws within Switzerland and they would not hand over information to the IRS when it pertained to clients within Switzerland.

i hate the IRS and hate how US always tries to implement their laws in other countries. The IRS should have no right in asking about banking information of Swiss bank clients since its out of their jurisdiction. Switzerland is a sovereign country and their laws should not be changed or modified because of US.