New Line Up and Strategy (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

Not sure how to start, but here it goes. After hearing Jim Bennings presser today, I got 2 things out of it, He generally likes the core, and he's not afraid to ask a player to wave his NTC.

Here is my year 1 Proposal......In order of events

#1. trade up to get one of the following: Bennett, Reinhart, Dal Colle.......

( I think you can get Dal Colle for Edler, and either Bennett or Reinhart for Edler and our 1st)

#2. Trade Burrows (high 2nd-2014) and Boothe(3rd or 4th rounder.....buy out for Boothe otherwise And TRADE Edler if he is not gone.

.

#3. Summer UFA's: P.Stastny(8,000,000), R. Callahan(7,000,000),Mike. Weaver(1,600.000)

Resign Tanev (3,000,000) Kassian (2,000,000)

#4. draft defensemen with 2nd's and goalie with the 3rd

2014 Line up

D.Sedin H.Sedin R.Kesler

Shinkaruk P.Stastny R. Callahan (Note: 6 centers will be played every game barring injuries)

C. Higgins B.Horvat Z,Kassian

S.Matthias B.Richardson J.Hansen

T.Stetito Z. Dalpe N.Jensen

J.Garrison K.Bieksa

C. Tanev D.Hanhuis

F.Corrado R.Stanton 7th dman Mike Weaver

Lack

Markstrom

Cap Payroll $70,642,778.............Cap Space $457,000.................according to CapGeek

#5. Re-evaluate before trade deadline ...........

If we are not close at this time, Trade Kesler and Higgins for picks and prospects

#6. Will not sign Stastny or Callahan to NTC..possible trade at Trade deadline on year 4 of contracts

Note* Shinkaruk should be given every chance to play with these guys and Jensen should probably go back to the AHL for a full year or until Kesler and Higgins are traded.....remember that the NHL IS TALKING EXPANSION AT SOME POINT IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS...HOPE NOT....BUT???

[I.Am.Ironman]

I think 8 mill for Stastny and 7 for Callahan is a little bit much. 7 for Stastny and 6 for Callahan. If Callahan doesn't accept then he can go sign somewhere else but I think we could get Stastny for around 7. I have trouble even offering Callahan 6 but that's where free agency is at these days.

I think for 'another kick at the can' we NEED Stastny, and I am willing to pay 7/year for him. I have the feeling that the 'Nucks management isn't going into rebuild mode so the only other option is to go balls out to put together a team that can contend, and in our case score.

But we can all say do this, or, do that. Benning has the final say and I am just going to sit back and observe what his moves are come draft day to really get a feel for what direction this organization is heading.

[J.I.A.H.N]

I think 8 mill for Stastny and 7 for Callahan is a little bit much. 7 for Stastny and 6 for Callahan. If Callahan doesn't accept then he can go sign somewhere else but I think we could get Stastny for around 7. I have trouble even offering Callahan 6 but that's where free agency is at these days.

I think for 'another kick at the can' we NEED Stastny, and I am willing to pay 7/year for him. I have the feeling that the 'Nucks management isn't going into rebuild mode so the only other option is to go balls out to put together a team that can contend, and in our case score.

But we can all say do this, or, do that. Benning has the final say and I am just going to sit back and observe what his moves are come draft day to really get a feel for what direction this organization is heading.

Totally agree with you...maybe I am paying too much for the UFA, but those are the guys I want, and thats what I can afford, if we can get them for less, I am ok for it,. Mostly, I was trying to change my thinking a little and trying to Ice a competative team, without giving up any assets, and maybe add some...aka Edler, Burrows, Booth etc......what do you think of the team.....it sure looks deap to me,,,,only question is Shinkaruk and we can move Higgins back up one if the rookie has trouble....but its got speed, size, skill, and versitility......don't know how you could improve given what is out there and our assests, and Bennings statements

[William_Clarkson]

#3. Summer UFA's: P.Stastny(8,000,000), R. Callahan(7,000,000),Mike. Weaver(1,600.000)

Resign Tanev (3,000,000) Kassian (2,000,000)

2014 Line up

D.Sedin H.Sedin R.Kesler

Shinkaruk P.Stastny R. Callahan (Note: 6 centers will be played every game barring injuries)

C. Higgins B.Horvat Z,Kassian

S.Matthias B.Richardson J.Hansen

T.Stetito Z. Dalpe N.Jensen

J.Garrison K.Bieksa

C. Tanev D.Hanhuis

F.Corrado R.Stanton 7th dman Mike Weaver

Lack

Markstrom

Note* Shinkaruk should be given every chance to play with these guys and Jensen should probably go back to the AHL for a full year or until Kesler and Higgins are traded.....remember that the NHL IS TALKING EXPANSION AT SOME POINT IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS...HOPE NOT....BUT???

That's a bit much for Stastny and Callahan, but if you have the cap space, I guess it's fine (though a goaltender would be nice, to go 41/41 with Lack). You might also want to resign Santorelli.

The only real problem is cutting Jensen for Shinkaruk. Jensen has a good amount of NHL time and was tearing it up in the AHL prior to being called up. Shinkaruk on the other hand has never even played in the AHL and is coming off a major injury (hip, I believe).

Also, I don't know how I feel about giving Kassian another year on the 3rd line, though injuries will happen and he could be the first to shift up so that should be fine.

Swap Hamhuis & Garrison. I don't like the idea of Bieksa & Garrison together. Hell, maybe even throw Corrado with Hamhuis similar to how Tanev was put with Hamhuis.

Not a bad proposal though.

[J.I.A.H.N]

That's a bit much for Stastny and Callahan, but if you have the cap space, I guess it's fine (though a goaltender would be nice, to go 41/41 with Lack). You might also want to resign Santorelli.

The only real problem is cutting Jensen for Shinkaruk. Jensen has a good amount of NHL time and was tearing it up in the AHL prior to being called up. Shinkaruk on the other hand has never even played in the AHL and is coming off a major injury (hip, I believe).

Also, I don't know how I feel about giving Kassian another year on the 3rd line, though injuries will happen and he could be the first to shift up so that should be fine.

Swap Hamhuis & Garrison. I don't like the idea of Bieksa & Garrison together. Hell, maybe even throw Corrado with Hamhuis similar to how Tanev was put with Hamhuis.

Not a bad proposal though.

Thanks,,,,,yeah I have a problem leaving jensen off the starting line up, but the reason for starting Shinkaruk is he plays the left side where as Jensen plays the right side........I admit there is some question on shinkaruk, but we need fresh young offensive guys up forward on our first 2 lines and watching his last training camp made me feel he might pull it off.

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

Thanks,,,,,yeah I have a problem leaving jensen off the starting line up, but the reason for starting Shinkaruk is he plays the left side where as Jensen plays the right side........I admit there is some question on shinkaruk, but we need fresh young offensive guys up forward on our first 2 lines and watching his last training camp made me feel he might pull it off.

Jensen can play left wing as well. he has in the past.

[Canuck Surfer]

Absolute killer top 6! So killer our depth, which was another issue, looks great when everyone gets pushed back a line.

I'd settle for one of Stastny and Callahan (unless we trade Kesler, lets call it keep any two of those 3?) and get a serious PMD prospect. Maybe Pouliot? I believe we need an upgrade in skill handling the puck on D even more than we do up front. If we only upgrade at forward, and give up Edler which is a regressive move (contrary to popular belief), we're not really getting much further ahead!

I'd like a veteran PMD, but my observation is only the B & C class ones (think Ballard) come available. Even the B ones (Campbell), are prohibitively expensive, both to acquire and in cap hit. So its a prospect, then try again if it don't work out?

[aqua59]

Not sure how to start, but here it goes. After hearing Jim Bennings presser today, I got 2 things out of it, He generally likes the core, and he's not afraid to ask a player to wave his NTC.

Here is my year 1 Proposal......In order of events

#1. trade up to get one of the following: Bennett, Reinhart, Dal Colle.......

( I think you can get Dal Colle for Edler, and either Bennett or Reinhart for Edler and our 1st)

#2. Trade Burrows (high 2nd-2014) and Boothe(3rd or 4th rounder.....buy out for Boothe otherwise And TRADE Edler if he is not gone.

.

#3. Summer UFA's: P.Stastny(8,000,000), R. Callahan(7,000,000),Mike. Weaver(1,600.000)

Resign Tanev (3,000,000) Kassian (2,000,000)

#4. draft defensemen with 2nd's and goalie with the 3rd

2014 Line up

D.Sedin H.Sedin R.Kesler

Shinkaruk P.Stastny R. Callahan (Note: 6 centers will be played every game barring injuries)

C. Higgins B.Horvat Z,Kassian

S.Matthias B.Richardson J.Hansen

T.Stetito Z. Dalpe N.Jensen

J.Garrison K.Bieksa

C. Tanev D.Hanhuis

F.Corrado R.Stanton 7th dman Mike Weaver

Lack

Markstrom

Cap Payroll $70,642,778.............Cap Space $457,000.................according to CapGeek

#5. Re-evaluate before trade deadline ...........

If we are not close at this time, Trade Kesler and Higgins for picks and prospects

#6. Will not sign Stastny or Callahan to NTC..possible trade at Trade deadline on year 4 of contracts

Note* Shinkaruk should be given every chance to play with these guys and Jensen should probably go back to the AHL for a full year or until Kesler and Higgins are traded.....remember that the NHL IS TALKING EXPANSION AT SOME POINT IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS...HOPE NOT....BUT???

Interesting ideas. Making the trade you propose regarding Booth would have been done by Gillis and Co long ago if they could have. His salary is what other teams don't want to pay. The other teams have been watching Booth just as much as any one has since Gillis made that bad trade for him. Gillis over payed and to think some team is all of a sudden going to over pay for Booth is a stretch.He's a by out guy.

Burrows. He had a disastrous season under Torts coupled with injury. That said he was effective defensively when he played. I don't think Burrows is that much of a problem and chancing him bouncing back is a pretty good bet.

The 2 players that I feel should be moved out of the group is Higgins and Hanson. Both too small for their roles. We kept seeing Hanson and Higgins slotted into the top 6 something they were never meant to do. This is a spot where Vancouver can get bigger from with in and possibly free agency.

I doubt either one of these guys will be back. At least I'm hoping they're not back. When I see Hansen on the ice I see a wasted shift with low scoring chances. As a fan I'm more than tired of his game. (It's not personal).

[canuckfan_21]

I think 8 mill for Stastny and 7 for Callahan is a little bit much. 7 for Stastny and 6 for Callahan. If Callahan doesn't accept then he can go sign somewhere else but I think we could get Stastny for around 7. I have trouble even offering Callahan 6 but that's where free agency is at these days.

I think for 'another kick at the can' we NEED Stastny, and I am willing to pay 7/year for him. I have the feeling that the 'Nucks management isn't going into rebuild mode so the only other option is to go balls out to put together a team that can contend, and in our case score.

But we can all say do this, or, do that. Benning has the final say and I am just going to sit back and observe what his moves are come draft day to really get a feel for what direction this organization is heading.

I agree with you that it's a little much, but I think this will be a pretty regular occurance for the next couple years with the cap rising dramatically. Players like Stastny will get around 7.5-8 million per year from teams that are desperate with lots of cap room to spend.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Thanks for the comments....I will try to answer them all here.

My decision on Shinkaruk over Jensen was based on both being young and wanting to play them on their natural side, but I would let training camp make the final decision. Only point needed to make here is that who ever stays needs to add talent and keep us under the salary cap.

As for Higgins and Hansen. I kept Higgins with Horvat to give veteran leadership and keep the production up...he had 17 goals last year. As for Hansen, he has speed and is able to push forward, while still being defensively responsable, if he was better, he'd be playing higher in the lineup, but he fits both in speed and in cap. Hell of a 4th line don't you think?

Again for Higgins and Hansen, I don't think Benning would clean house after his presser, but in IMO would move some now and then re-evaluate, and move more at the deadline when they would have a better idea what they are worth......also again they fit under our cap

As for drafting, I think you will see the Canucks try and move up this year, and then attemp to draft Dmen and goalies in the 2 and 3rd rounds over the 2 years.........if they decide to move Kesler at the deadline, it will be for a young PMD and other prospects/picks

As for over paying for Stastny and Callahan.......we will need to overpay to ensure we land them.....sorry but other teams are after them as well and we can not risk loosing them to another team.......I see 4 year terms with NO no tade clauses

Sorry for trading Burrows......no room and someones got to go....sorry! Need cap room.....he still has trade value....maybe not in another year or 2......we are getting old !

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just another comment to my last in regards to Stastny and Callahan.......IMO they are the best 2 UFA's that fit our needs...if we don't get Stastny and Callahan to a lesser degree, you can pass on being competative to the point of being playoff bound. These moves also give us the time to develope our prospects for a longer time....basically it buys us time that we need.

Of more or at least equal interest is our drafting in the next 2 years. Who we get this year is pivotal, as we if TL and JB get their way, we will not be picking this low again for awhile....my proposal echo's this, so trading up this year warrants trading extra to land the player we want.

I propose the bargaining chip we use are our 2014 6th over-all, Edler, and if nessesary our 2016-1st, as I feel it is imparative to land one of Bennett, Reinhart or Dal Colle. We will not get this close again for many years, and who ever we land has to be ready in 4 years when the Sedins retire.

But this is tempered with the understanding that the Canucks go after Stastny and Callahan

Just as a side point.........I would also use my 2015 picks by drafting the best forward available in the first and then again with all other 2nd and 3rd picks, I would be drafting Dmen and goalies....as a rule, unless a forward we want drops into our hands

[J.I.A.H.N]

Disappointed in the lack of response! Come on everyone this is solid!

[zombieksa]

I'd rather have Burrows and Santorelli in that lineup to be honest. Gaunce, Shink and Jensen will be in the AHL and would be first call-ups come injuries. If you are signing Weaver as well, I would rather have him in the lineup than Corrado as well.

There is no harm in having those 4 prospects in the AHL until called upon, that is the life of a prospect in the early years.

So my tweaks to your proposal.

F - Less for Stastny and Callahan, keep Burrows for 2nd line, Santorelli for 3rd C, Dalpe and Jensen in AHL.

Weaver and Stoner (UFA) as #5 and 6, Stanton and Weber #7-8, Corrado in AHL

[FlyLow_]

Some of what you've done here is a good plan for 2015. Shinkaruk is probably going to the AHL to get stronger and learn how to not get killed, besides Jensen is much farther along in his development. Trading Burrows for a 2nd in a garbage draft isn't a great idea, but would be fine in 2015. However if Paul Gaustad got a 1st, Burr certainly should.

I think it's a little far fetched thinking we're going to sign more than 1 big name free agent. Free agents pick where they want to play, and it's a thin market to begin with without getting into how desirable Vancouver is right now. Can't see why Stastny would want to leave Colorado, don't want Moulson for even half of that price. To be honest i'd rather have Burrows than Moulson.

I like Weaver if we can get him, and in general feel like you have the right idea with the type of players needed and getting youth into the line-up. Just don't agree on the names or that what we need to do can be achieved via free agency, and you failed to address the defense which is lacking a PP QB or any tangible threat.

[J.I.A.H.N]

I'd rather have Burrows and Santorelli in that lineup to be honest. Gaunce, Shink and Jensen will be in the AHL and would be first call-ups come injuries. If you are signing Weaver as well, I would rather have him in the lineup than Corrado as well.

There is no harm in having those 4 prospects in the AHL until called upon, that is the life of a prospect in the early years.

So my tweaks to your proposal.

F - Less for Stastny and Callahan, keep Burrows for 2nd line, Santorelli for 3rd C, Dalpe and Jensen in AHL.

Weaver and Stoner (UFA) as #5 and 6, Stanton and Weber #7-8, Corrado in AHL

Well, if you are trying to keep the completely together, I guess your idea works, but our production has been falling with that core. And does your idea fit the cap? We need to move some veterans, or at some point we will not be able to get anything for them.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Some of what you've done here is a good plan for 2015. Shinkaruk is probably going to the AHL to get stronger and learn how to not get killed, besides Jensen is much farther along in his development. Trading Burrows for a 2nd in a garbage draft isn't a great idea, but would be fine in 2015. However if Paul Gaustad got a 1st, Burr certainly should.

I think it's a little far fetched thinking we're going to sign more than 1 big name free agent. Free agents pick where they want to play, and it's a thin market to begin with without getting into how desirable Vancouver is right now. Can't see why Stastny would want to leave Colorado, don't want Moulson for even half of that price. To be honest i'd rather have Burrows than Moulson.

I like Weaver if we can get him, and in general feel like you have the right idea with the type of players needed and getting youth into the line-up. Just don't agree on the names or that what we need to do can be achieved via free agency, and you failed to address the defense which is lacking a PP QB or any tangible threat.

Thanks for the imput.....I agree......don't want Moulson...except I said Callahan, who is a very strong defensive/offensive player in the Mold of Kesler himself, and just like Kesler has been a consistant 2nd line player....as good as Kesler? No, but solid never the less.

Also, I think the elimination of Edler and the addition of Weaver brings our +- up considerably, which at the end of the game, is what is all about. ( If we would have had 20 less even strength goals scored against us.....where would have placed?) Edlers play was at least responsible for some of that at -39he had...just saying

[zombieksa]

Well, if you are trying to keep the completely together, I guess your idea works, but our production has been falling with that core. And does your idea fit the cap? We need to move some veterans, or at some point we will not be able to get anything for them.

If fits depending on how much less our two big UFA's take.

I also think your original proposal puts Kassian and Tanev making too much.

Kassian is looking more at a 2 year contract between 1.2-1.5M and Tanev is probably looking at 2.5-2.75M (CanucksArmy did a write up of similar player contracts.) Those savings is enough to re-sign santorelli.

Horvat + Shink + Dalpe + Jensen + corrado in minors + savings from Stastny + Callahan on slightly cheaper contracts should be enough to keep Burrows and sign one of Stoner or Weber. maybe both.

[FlyLow_]

Thanks for the imput.....I agree......don't want Moulson...except I said Callahan, who is a very strong defensive/offensive player in the Mold of Kesler himself, and just like Kesler has been a consistant 2nd line player....as good as Kesler? No, but solid never the less.

Also, I think the elimination of Edler and the addition of Weaver brings our +- up considerably, which at the end of the game, is what is all about. ( If we would have had 20 less even strength goals scored against us.....where would have placed?) Edlers play was at least responsible for some of that at -39he had...just saying

Lmao, that's what happens when reading 2 threads at once I guess. I like Callahan a lot, but again I just don't think he's worth the money. What he turned down in New York was absurd, plus there's probably a really high chance he signs with Tampa.

I still feel like without a tangible threat on the back end it will continue to be too easy to shut down the forwards. I mean, it has been since Ehrhoff and Salo left. It's not those players, it's the role they filled and the chemistry that created. People point to our D as a strength, and while I agree the pieces are there I would also argue and win that they are the wrong pieces in the wrong places. Edler, Bieksa, Garrison should all be excellent 2nd pairing D-men and none of them can play together. Edler and Garrison should both go IMO but that's unlikely, but this D needs to get balanced and back to when it didn't matter who was on the ice 5 on 5.

Hammer-Bieksa

Edler-Boyle (or anyone capable of this role)

Stanton-Tanev

We actually don't really need Weaver, since Corrado is close to nhl ready and deserves to get the call ups for injuries.

I also forgot to mention in regards to Shinkaruk that there's a pretty good chance whoever we take with our first pick at the draft is going to be NHL ready, so there's no reason to force that issue IMO. For every Gallagher there are 20 Jordan Schroeder's that struggle with the transition to playing men.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Lmao, that's what happens when reading 2 threads at once I guess. I like Callahan a lot, but again I just don't think he's worth the money. What he turned down in New York was absurd, plus there's probably a really high chance he signs with Tampa.

I still feel like without a tangible threat on the back end it will continue to be too easy to shut down the forwards. I mean, it has been since Ehrhoff and Salo left. It's not those players, it's the role they filled and the chemistry that created. People point to our D as a strength, and while I agree the pieces are there I would also argue and win that they are the wrong pieces in the wrong places. Edler, Bieksa, Garrison should all be excellent 2nd pairing D-men and none of them can play together. Edler and Garrison should both go IMO but that's unlikely, but this D needs to get balanced and back to when it didn't matter who was on the ice 5 on 5.

Hammer-Bieksa

Edler-Boyle (or anyone capable of this role)

Stanton-Tanev

We actually don't really need Weaver, since Corrado is close to nhl ready and deserves to get the call ups for injuries.

I also forgot to mention in regards to Shinkaruk that there's a pretty good chance whoever we take with our first pick at the draft is going to be NHL ready, so there's no reason to force that issue IMO. For every Gallagher there are 20 Jordan Schroeder's that struggle with the transition to playing men.

Well we differ there. My ultimate goal is to slowly move out the veterans, starting with Edler, Boothe and Burrows this summer, getting picks and prospects for them.

Then at the 2015 trade deadline, moving Higgins and Hansen......and ultimately Kesler if the right trade comes along for him.

The year after, I would look at Bieska at 2016 deadline

In each case picking up assets and then replacing those players with UFA's,prospects and draft picks...each time trying to keep a balance of Vets and youth.........we are not Edmonton or Winterpeg.......players will sign here....for the right price of course! LOL

This is the old Montreal model to some extent....worked for them! LOL