AllCanucksAllTheTime Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I've been cruising through the proposals on this forum and there's one thing that I find over and over that really bugs me, the majority of posts overvalue Bo Horvat and Brendan Gaunce. In some cases I find people implying that they're just as valuable as Reinhart or Bennet. As far as I've read on our two center prospects they only pan out to be very good 3rd line centers, or maybe 2nd line on a bad team (which we most likely will be in a few years) My question to you is, how do you see them panning out, and in terms of trade value, what are they worth to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsiders Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Gaunce is worth a 2nd round pick and a low prospect right now. and in the future I see him as a solid 3rd liner Horvat is worth and NHL player and a pick so like Higgins and a low prospect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goog16 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Why don't we wait until they actually play some NHL games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Horvat won't be traded but his trade value to us = a top 5 pick. Even then doubt we would trade him. Has legit star 2nd line potential. Gaunce value right now = a late 1st/early 2nd rounder. More valuable to us in the Pacific division as he is a big body and has skill, IQ, and hands. Need those types of grinding players to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Horvat is projected to be a great 3rd liner or a mediocre 2nd line centre. He could surprise and be better, or he could flop. Just because he is one of our top prospects, doesn't make him a star. If I could give up our 6th and Horvat for the 1st overall I would do it in a heartbeat. Gaunce is likely a 3rd or 4th line guy if he makes the NHL as a regular. Gillis really missed on opportunity because he chose the safest player available... not the one with the best talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Horvat is projected to be a great 3rd liner or a mediocre 2nd line centre. He could surprise and be better, or he could flop. Just because he is one of our top prospects, doesn't make him a star. If I could give up our 6th and Horvat for the 1st overall I would do it in a heartbeat. Gaunce is likely a 3rd or 4th line guy if he makes the NHL as a regular. Gillis really missed on opportunity because he chose the safest player available... not the one with the best talent. I think you mean great 2nd liner/mediocre 1st liner, because no one ever described Horvat as a future 3rd liner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomorick Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Wow, you are all severely underrating Horvat and Gauce. Both have a good chance at being very good NHLers. Horvat's upside would be Kesler plus and Gaunce could become Getzlaf like. There are no guarantees with either but they both have potential. Where we have been drafting there is always risk. Size wise they both are good additions. Now we need some high end skill to complement them. Ehlers, Nylander, Dal Colle or who ever drops to us. We need to add young skill, not trade it away!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Please stop trying to trade away our prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 From the little that I have seen of both Horvat and Gaunce (Horvat looked to be sick or injured during Mem Cup), my opinion is that they both play a pro-type game. They both seem to play a 200' game, are physically mature to compete against men, have above average offensive skills (Horvat being better than Gaunce), strong on the draw, and versatile enough to play the wing position. However, they are both young and unproven, and seem to have some weaknesses to their game...Gaunce looks like he could work on his quickness and first stride acceleration...Horvat on being consistent (but that's only based on what I saw during Mem Cup). IMO, they are more pro-ready than anyone, other than maybe the top 3 (Ekblad, Reinhart, Bennett) in this year's draft, but that's because they are older and there aren't too many 18 year olds ready for the NHL or AHL for that matter. As Horvat and Gaunce get more experience and better, these are the kind of guys that I'd want to surround highly skilled players with (i.e., provide depth). I can foresee Horvat being a second/third line centre/LW; Gaunce a third line centre/LW. Very useful and all-around players, and character guys. I would only trade them if they would bring us back a top three pick in this year's draft. Horvat was highly touted in his draft year and Gaunce was viewed a decent 1st rd. pick in his draft year...they have developed well over the past season and two, respectively and trading them for an 18 year old prospect only sets us behind one year with our prospect pool. With each passing draft, I find with some of CDC members, it is like they want to dump their current girlfriend for a new girlfriend, when the current girlfriend is awesome and doesn't need to be traded in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks155 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Horvat = Almost a guaranteed 2nd line center and has the ceiling to be a decent 1st liner Gaunce = 3rd liner w/ potential to be a 2nd liner IF, and only if, he improves his skating Right now, I'd say Horvat is untradeable unless a great offer comes along. He falls in the same category as Drouin, Mantha, etc in terms of them all having high ceilings and are untradeable. He's the only blue chip prospect the Canucks have, and it's going to take 1 hell of an overpayment to get him. Gaunce is probably worth a late 1st or early 2nd or a decent prospect. He's not worth too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks-for-the-cup Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Wow, you are all severely underrating Horvat and Gauce. Both have a good chance at being very good NHLers. Horvat's upside would be Kesler plus and Gaunce could become Getzlaf like. There are no guarantees with either but they both have potential. Where we have been drafting there is always risk. Size wise they both are good additions. Now we need some high end skill to complement them. Ehlers, Nylander, Dal Colle or who ever drops to us. We need to add young skill, not trade it away!!! gaunce is like a 3rd liner and horvat is a 2nd line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I have to agree with the OP.. right now we have no one in the system who can replace Hank as our 1C... that along with an elite D-man are our top priorities moving forward in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I think you mean great 2nd liner/mediocre 1st liner, because no one ever described Horvat as a future 3rd liner... He wasn't referring to projections by fans/management, like the one you posted. He meant the rest of the Hockey world. And those opinions are much closer to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 gaunce is like a 3rd liner and horvat is a 2nd line Bump them both down a line and I think we are closer to the truth. Hovat and Gaunce are good prospects and may someday make significant contributions to the team, Unfortunately, those contributions will not be of the offensive, top-six type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I think you mean great 2nd liner/mediocre 1st liner, because no one ever described Horvat as a future 3rd liner... Well the first two non-CDC scouting reports I looked at prove that you are wrong. First one is Hockey Futures and second one is Hockey Writers. Both described him as a 3rd liner or "possibly" a 2nd liner. Even if you found other scouting reports that said differently... your statement "no one ever" called him a 3rd liner is simply fantasy. Talent Analysis Horvat’s bullish style of play garnered a lot of attention this year both in London and during the Knights’ run through the OHL playoffs. On a young team, Horvat stepped up and assumed a huge leadership responsibility, while showing his offensive bonafides. But what impresses observers most about Horvat is how hard he plays the game. He can score, but his truest strengths are defensive play and skill in the faceoff circle. Though he would be an ideal third-line centre in the NHL, Horvat could find himself on a team’s top six -- as the sandpaper on an offensively gifted line. He could be lethal in that role as he has the hands and nose for the net to take advantage of the dirty areas of the net. Then looking at the Hockey Writers: NHL Potential: 2nd or 3rd line Centre http://thehockeywriters.com/bo-horvat-the-next-ones-nhl-2013-draft-prospect-profile/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Horvat = Almost a guaranteed 2nd line center and has the ceiling to be a decent 1st liner Gaunce = 3rd liner w/ potential to be a 2nd liner IF, and only if, he improves his skating Wow... This is soooo out of touch with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 He wasn't referring to projections by fans/management, like the one you posted. He meant the rest of the Hockey world. And those opinions are much closer to reality. This... though even most 3rd party scouting reports end up being optimistic as well. They suggest the expected ceiling, but lots of guys projected to be top NHLers were complete busts. Horvat and Gaunce are spectacular examples of MG's fetish for safe, yet unspectacular players. They have less potential "bust" danger than many of their peers... but also have WAY less chance of being a real game-breaking elite type player. You need guys like that on your roster... but you need them to be complementary players supporting other guys who may have more talent in a particular area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 When I see Horvat, I see Ryan O Reilly. Not only with the style, but I think he should have about a similar skill level. So that's a 2nd line center with potential to get to first line. Third line center for sure, but second line is most likely. is my honest prediction. Some people would say that's really bold, but honestly, yeah, I think he's going to be Vancouvers version of ROR. When it comes to Gaunce, it's a little more of a toss up. For him I think he will be a quality third liner who can play second line when needed. If he increases his speed though, he could top out as a second line player but still, that's unlikely. If he becomes anything less than a third liner, I'd be slightly surprised. Anything less than a fourth liner, and I would be shocked. A safe guess though is third liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible.dee Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Well the first two non-CDC scouting reports I looked at prove that you are wrong. First one is Hockey Futures and second one is Hockey Writers. Both described him as a 3rd liner or "possibly" a 2nd liner. Even if you found other scouting reports that said differently... your statement "no one ever" called him a 3rd liner is simply fantasy. Talent Analysis Horvat’s bullish style of play garnered a lot of attention this year both in London and during the Knights’ run through the OHL playoffs. On a young team, Horvat stepped up and assumed a huge leadership responsibility, while showing his offensive bonafides. But what impresses observers most about Horvat is how hard he plays the game. He can score, but his truest strengths are defensive play and skill in the faceoff circle. Though he would be an ideal third-line centre in the NHL, Horvat could find himself on a team’s top six -- as the sandpaper on an offensively gifted line. He could be lethal in that role as he has the hands and nose for the net to take advantage of the dirty areas of the net. Then looking at the Hockey Writers: NHL Potential: 2nd or 3rd line Centre http://thehockeywriters.com/bo-horvat-the-next-ones-nhl-2013-draft-prospect-profile/ People here don't read those, They see what they want to see. And when they read "potential 2nd or 3rd line center" they interrupt it as a guarantee. They don't realize the odds of them actually achieving their top potential is slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robongo Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 They are the types you win with and both seem to elevate their games come playoff time and great Canadian character guys. All of our young players and prospects should be untouchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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