Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Dekey Pete]

Virt played an awesome game yesterday.  7 hits (BIG hits) registered on the official stat sheet, one assist, and a breakaway that could have very well been a goal.  Not to mention he was rewarded with more playing time.  Willie IS the right coach for these young guys.

[uselessstats]

Virt played an awesome game yesterday.  7 hits (BIG hits) registered on the official stat sheet, one assist, and a breakaway that could have very well been a goal.  Not to mention he was rewarded with more playing time.  Willie IS the right coach for these young guys.

I ripped into Willie a couple pages back for his usage of Jake and McCann in the Deteoit game (and past games before that) so I'll step up and give him credit for how he used them last night.  Moving Jake to a veteran line w Sutter and Burrows was a good decision and giving him a regular shift and letting Jake get into a regular rhythm made a huge difference.  Yes he bobbled that breakaway but it was great to see him use his speed to get it in the first place.  Anyone who can't see Virtanen's upside beyond hitting (which isn't useless either) has a limited view of the NHL game IMO.

 

Good job by the kids and good job by Willie to loosen the reigns and give them a chance to shine.  Hope to see more of that again.

[Nave]

Virt played an awesome game yesterday.  7 hits (BIG hits) registered on the official stat sheet, one assist, and a breakaway that could have very well been a goal.  Not to mention he was rewarded with more playing time.  Willie IS the right coach for these young guys.

Virt loudly got almost as much ice time as Daniel. I say loudly, cause he got some bangin' hits.

He also went in front of the net, and forechecked well. That bat down for the breakaway was a heads up play. 

[guntrix]

 

Does anyone recall the playoffs against Calgary in April. When ever they would come down on the defense after a dump in. All of our Dmen including Tanev/Bieksa would panic & fumble the puck or turn it over trying to make a quick pass. Well if you go back & watch the 2nd/3rd period of the Montreal game, this is exactly what the Canadiens Dmen were doing. Jake instills fear & intimidation to the other team. They do not want to get hit that hard over and over again. So in turn it creates space for the other players to make plays & to get quality shots on net. Something without Jake, we do not have.

 

Check.... & Mate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So basically physicality. So much for a "check mate."

 

You could figure that out for yourself if you were to start watching games instead of the statlines.  Believe it or not, the value of players in the game of hockey involves more than just who the last one is to touch the puck before it goes into the net, and Virtanen does have that proven ability as well.  It's been repeated throughout 500+ pages here what Virtanen brings currently, plus what skills and significant upside he brings for the future.  Get yourself a stream or something and see what happens when he's out there -- he IS making an impact "RIGHT NOW" and will do so even more once he gets settled into the league.
Speaking of statlines, Virtanen has the same number of points as Sam Bennett, despite Bennett having played two more games and getting 50% more icetime, including over a minute of powerplay time per game.  Bennett was considered by many to be the top prospect going into the draft but he's not "a hitter", so by your standard he is bringing even less, absolutely nothing "to the table"?

So Bennett's slow start to the season is reason enough to justify Virtanen being on the team? 

Also, Virtanen had ONE good goal scoring season if we're talking about WHL and up. This is not proven.

The fact that this post got upped 7 times really makes me wonder...

[Gaudette Celly]

So Bennett's slow start to the season is reason enough to justify Virtanen being on the team? 

Also, Virtanen had ONE good goal scoring season if we're talking about WHL and up. This is not proven.

The fact that this post got upped 7 times really makes me wonder...

You missed the point.  He's trying to establish that Virtanen has not been "bringing to the table" anything of significance to legitimize him staying with the team, while wringing his hands over MuhEhlers scoring.  Higher-pick Bennett has arguably been less-effective than Jake yet he's supposed to be an offensive producer AND is getting significantly more minutes than Jake.  He then says "offense is nothing" yet says nothing about the other things Virtanen DOES bring.  Of course the whole problem is that he doesn't even watch the games and bases his (long) treatises on boxscores and narratives.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

Virtanen again hasn't shown much finished with a -2 rating, laid the body but did we just draft a energy player in the top 6? Scary thought, please develop him more he is not ready for the NHL, he doesn't make NHL plays he plays like a Raffi Torres or sadly reminds me of  a David Booth sometimes. Please please please please please send him to the juniors and let him gain some confidence with Team Canada and then let him play in the AHL for two years. Develop him the right way like how Corey Perry was developed. Annoyed, because I have yet to see Virtanen's shot. Where is his release? he is suppose to have a deadly release? were the heck is it?

 

He claimed he plays a similar game to Rick Nash, I have not seen this at all! send him down please!

Edited October 30, 2015 by desiboynux4lifee*******

[DeNiro]

Virtanen again hasn't shown much finished with a -2 rating

So did Horvat.

Neither goal was his fault.

Judge him on his lack of offense tonight, not a -2 rating.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

So did Horvat.

Neither goal was his fault.

Judge him on his lack of offense tonight, not a -2 rating.

 

I watched the Oiler's game for last ten minutes, let me tell you something you actually noticed Leon Draistel, but with Viratanen he is no were at the level Leon Draistel,It's time we bite our egos and admit Virtanen is years away from being a impact player. 

 

oh yeah Ehlers also got a nice assist, Jake is not ready, please send him down

Edited October 30, 2015 by desiboynux4lifee*******

[DeNiro]

 

I watched the Oiler's game for last ten minutes, let me tell you something you actually noticed Leon Draistel, but with Viratanen he is no were at the level Leon Draistel,It's time we bite our egos and admit Virtanen is years away from being a impact player. 

 

oh yeah Ehlers also got a nice assist, Jake is not ready, please send him down

Virtanen had as many hits as the entire Habs team last game, and you didn't notice him? Maybe you should pay attention more.

His lack of offense is a problem I'll agree. But we heard the same belly aching about Horvat last season too until after the all-star break.

If he gets sent down it won't be because his lack of points, it will be because they don't think his two-way play is good enough.

Edited October 30, 2015 by DeNiro

[DownUndaCanuck]

You missed the point.  He's trying to establish that Virtanen has not been "bringing to the table" anything of significance to legitimize him staying with the team, while wringing his hands over MuhEhlers scoring.  Higher-pick Bennett has arguably been less-effective than Jake yet he's supposed to be an offensive producer AND is getting significantly more minutes than Jake.  He then says "offense is nothing" yet says nothing about the other things Virtanen DOES bring.  Of course the whole problem is that he doesn't even watch the games and bases his (long) treatises on boxscores and narratives.

I've watched every single game this season so lets not base everything you say on complete and utter lies. Virtanen fans need to seriously take off their rose coloured glasses and look at his game OBJECTIVELY because that's one thing I have done better than you crazed Virtanen fans.

I want Vancouver to succeed as much as the next person and to do that I'm critically evaluating this team and its decisions instead of just applauding Virtanen and pretending he's our saviour every time he throws a big hit or does something good.

Look at his play as a whole and you'll see he's clearly not NHL ready, and forcing him to play an entire season in the NHL this early in his career will destroy his confidence and development. Sure, this is just a belief I have which is only really based on watching the games for years and my opinion is about as valid as anyone else's, but mark my words if we force Virtanen to stay all year long he'll end up in the press-box more often than not and we'll destroy any chance of an offensive star he ever had. The kid needs to go back to junior and score goals as a top liner. He hasn't even done that yet in the WHL and we CANNOT be happy with him staying as a 3rd or 4th line banger and checker in the NHL for a long time, because you simply don't waste 6th overall picks on checkers. We have to groom him to become a first line star and keeping him around isn't going to do that.

He might score 10 goals this year and you crazed Virtanen fans will cheer and hoot every time he does, but take a step back and look at the bigger picture. He cost us a 6th overall pick, we need a 20-30 goal scorer from him who can play physically, and quite frankly it doesn't have to be THIS season. We've got kids who can play in his spot, and a plethora of veterans as well, we don't need to rush him at all. Right now Virtanen isn't bringing anything that Gaunce or even Cracknell could, so why not play these guys and send Virtanen back to junior to develop more?

[DownUndaCanuck]

Virtanen had as many hits as the entire Habs team last game, and you didn't notice him? Maybe you should pay attention more.

His lack of offense is a problem I'll agree. But we heard the same belly aching about Horvat last season too until after the all-star break.

If he gets sent down it won't be because his lack of points, it will be because they don't think his two-way play is good enough.

Completely agree with you on this. While I still think physicality and hits are the most overrated stat on CDC, defensive play is wildly underrated - mainly because of how hard it is to quantify and compare. However, just watching the games shows you that Virtanen can look a bit lost in the defensive zone at times. At other times, he's made some really nice interceptions and break-outs with his speed. I think this is the single biggest factor as to whether or not he gets sent down to junior.

In the ideal world, he'd be killing penalties too, and I think WD should try him in that role with his speed. If he can kill penalties well and start to get a better idea of the defensive zone coverage then by all means he should stay, even if he doesn't score in his 9 game stint.

However, if he keeps up playing the way he is right now, which is essentially hitting everything that moves but not making any particularly nice defensive plays or killing penalties or scoring, then he's got to go. Horvat played well defensively, killed penalties, lead our team in faceoffs and played like a bull in his 9 games and that's why he stayed. Meanwhile McCann is doing alright at the faceoff dot, but leads our team in goal scoring, has been solid defensively but hasn't killed penalties or thrown the body.

Some interesting predicaments, but these are the factors I believe you need to consider about a kid, in no particular order: scoring, defence, PK ability, faceoffs, hitting.

Horvat had 4 of those 5 down-pat after his 9 games which is why he stayed (not the scoring), McCann currently shows us 3 of them (no hitting or PK) but Virtanen is really only giving us 1 (hitting).

[canuckledraggin]

^

He's not ever going to be the player that you want him to be, because he was the 6th overall pick. Who gives a $h!T where we drafted him as long as he's capable of playing in our lineup. The truth is that he is capable of playing for the Canucks and if the coaches would let him off his leash, he would be the same beast of a player every night.

Ehlers is great, but we already have a Vrbata on this team and you can't have too many of those squishy players on your team at the same time or you're gonna be the Oilers of the past decade.

Tonight was his worst game by far and he still deserved to play over any other RW that we have in the system.

Get over your Virtanen hate. The kid is going to be here for a long time, so you might as well get used to it.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I've watched every single game this season so lets not base everything you say on complete and utter lies. Virtanen fans need to seriously take off their rose coloured glasses and look at his game OBJECTIVELY because that's one thing I have done better than you crazed Virtanen fans.

I want Vancouver to succeed as much as the next person and to do that I'm critically evaluating this team and its decisions instead of just applauding Virtanen and pretending he's our saviour every time he throws a big hit or does something good.

Look at his play as a whole and you'll see he's clearly not NHL ready, and forcing him to play an entire season in the NHL this early in his career will destroy his confidence and development. Sure, this is just a belief I have which is only really based on watching the games for years and my opinion is about as valid as anyone else's, but mark my words if we force Virtanen to stay all year long he'll end up in the press-box more often than not and we'll destroy any chance of an offensive star he ever had. The kid needs to go back to junior and score goals as a top liner. He hasn't even done that yet in the WHL and we CANNOT be happy with him staying as a 3rd or 4th line banger and checker in the NHL for a long time, because you simply don't waste 6th overall picks on checkers. We have to groom him to become a first line star and keeping him around isn't going to do that.

He might score 10 goals this year and you crazed Virtanen fans will cheer and hoot every time he does, but take a step back and look at the bigger picture. He cost us a 6th overall pick, we need a 20-30 goal scorer from him who can play physically, and quite frankly it doesn't have to be THIS season. We've got kids who can play in his spot, and a plethora of veterans as well, we don't need to rush him at all. Right now Virtanen isn't bringing anything that Gaunce or even Cracknell could, so why not play these guys and send Virtanen back to junior to develop more?

 

Completely agree with you on this. While I still think physicality and hits are the most overrated stat on CDC, defensive play is wildly underrated - mainly because of how hard it is to quantify and compare. However, just watching the games shows you that Virtanen can look a bit lost in the defensive zone at times. At other times, he's made some really nice interceptions and break-outs with his speed. I think this is the single biggest factor as to whether or not he gets sent down to junior.

In the ideal world, he'd be killing penalties too, and I think WD should try him in that role with his speed. If he can kill penalties well and start to get a better idea of the defensive zone coverage then by all means he should stay, even if he doesn't score in his 9 game stint.

However, if he keeps up playing the way he is right now, which is essentially hitting everything that moves but not making any particularly nice defensive plays or killing penalties or scoring, then he's got to go. Horvat played well defensively, killed penalties, lead our team in faceoffs and played like a bull in his 9 games and that's why he stayed. Meanwhile McCann is doing alright at the faceoff dot, but leads our team in goal scoring, has been solid defensively but hasn't killed penalties or thrown the body.

Some interesting predicaments, but these are the factors I believe you need to consider about a kid, in no particular order: scoring, defence, PK ability, faceoffs, hitting.

Horvat had 4 of those 5 down-pat after his 9 games which is why he stayed (not the scoring), McCann currently shows us 3 of them (no hitting or PK) but Virtanen is really only giving us 1 (hitting).

Sorry DownUnda but I have to call you out on your BS once again.

First we will start are with your comparison about Bo last year.  In Bo's 9 games he played a total of 2:32 of PK time.  Only Kassian and Vey had less PK time in those 9 games.  He did have a goal and 3 helper but he only played over 10 min of total ice time twice in his 9 games.  It's funny because everything you said about virtanen is almost the exact same write up that HW gave Horvat at his 9 game mark.

Bo Horvat is not performing terribly in the NHL, especially as a 19 year-old. We can’t truly know how he is going to perform after nine games especially as he is just starting to get adjusted to the faster pace of the game. Most concerning though is his lack of ice time and that he has been a healthy scratch. Will he continue to be a healthy scratch when the roster is all playing? Will he continue to earn sub-10 minutes a night?

If he is, then there’s a good argument for him to return to the CHL as he will be able to play top line minutes. It is false to say “Horvat has nothing left to learn in juniors” when he has not even been the top forward on his team.  With Max Domi having been moved to centre, Horvat will have competition there too. Horvat wouldn’t be playing against teams of 16 year-olds every night, there are plenty of tough opponents he could be playing upwards of 20-minutes a night.

You keep saying you want best for the canucks organization but for some reason you keep bringing up Ehlers and Nylander as better options.  By doing that it shows a distain for the Virtanen pick, you want him to fail.  You've already muddy the waters and shown that your reviling in the fact that Jake hasn't put up the goals and Ehlers has.  If you were truly concerned about Jakes development, Ehlers and Nylander should not be in the conversation as they have little to do with Jakes progress.

Now it's time to talk about what you said about Virtanen, So say Virtanen does score 10 goals this season.  Does that mean he's doomed to never go beyond that?  

How many goals did Kesler score as a 19 year old.  (In 3 seasons he only put up 18 total), Sure Kes was not a top 10 pick put he did manage to put up 7 consecutive 20+ goals season and break the 4 goals mark.

What about Ryan Johansen?  How offensively productive was he as a 19 year old?....20 year old?

What about Drouin, Galchenyuk, Voracek, the list could go on and on.  The point is, it takes time to adjust to the NHL level.  Think about how much further behind Bo's development would be had we sent him back to juniors.  He was our best player in playoffs.

One thing you really need to realize is small sample size is not the best way to judge potential.  8 NHL games is not enough to make a report on.  For all we know, Jake is doing everything ask of him, which is likely the case.  "Play a simple game, throw your body around and bit by bit start to adjust to the NHL speed"

 

Thats something you forget.  Sure Ehlers has got off to a good start, but what happens when he hits his first slump.  Right now everything seems to be going in and the bounces are going his way.  But what happens to him when the luck runs out and the NHL adrenaline wears off.  Baertschi put up 3 goals in his 5 games with the flames.  Confidence was high, the game seemed easy to him.  But once the bounces stopped going his way, now what, confidence takes a major step back and because they didn't build a strong pro level foundation, he found him self bouncing up and out of the line up and some players never get back to that level. 

Jake, just like Horvat is learning to adjust with no rushing, learning the pro game, practicing with pro's and being able to first hand watch from the best.  Think about the little things he gets to see the sedins do, how they prepare for practices and mentally get ready for each game.  Even guys like Prust are teaching him things at the NHL level.  It's his rookie year.  Offensive production is not what is expected of him.  If it comes it comes but there's no point in rushing it.  Then once the game starts to slow down for him and the points start to come, he's got a strong foundation at the NHL level and not just riding a high of confidence that can take a wrong turn.  If it was such a big deal for him to put up points, he would be with the twins or on the PP picking playing 15+ min a game.  

Edited October 30, 2015 by ForsbergTheGreat

[ThatPope]

I like Virt but he's just not ready.  Watching the game in the third period last night there was about 4-5 plays in a row that died on his stick over several shifts. He just doesn't process the game at an NHL level yet.

He has good individual skill and will make good passes and will make skillful plays with the puck but he's never going to be a high hockey sense, high hockey IQ player. He is a player that will rely on his physical attributes, his size, his speed, his shot.  

The rest of his game will come with time and experience but there's no need to rush him. I think he should be sent down, dominate offensively for Calgary, play a bigger role for Team Canada. It's been said before but I don't know of any player who's career was stunted by having to play an extra year of junior or by even playing a year or 2 in the AHL before playing a regular shift in the NHL. The same can't be said the other way around though. 

Look at a guy like Gaunce last night. He looks like a pro. Not flashy, but he makes the right plays, gets the puck deep, doesn't force bad passes. He played an extra year of junior, he's played a year in the AHL. He's been developed the right way and it shows in his game. 

Not every player is the same but there is absolutely no harm in sending Jake back to junior this year. He's had a taste now, he knows what it takes. He'll come back a year older and a better player. 

 

 

[sharbinder]

I've watched every single game this season so lets not base everything you say on complete and utter lies. Virtanen fans need to seriously take off their rose coloured glasses and look at his game OBJECTIVELY because that's one thing I have done better than you crazed Virtanen fans.

I want Vancouver to succeed as much as the next person and to do that I'm critically evaluating this team and its decisions instead of just applauding Virtanen and pretending he's our saviour every time he throws a big hit or does something good.

Look at his play as a whole and you'll see he's clearly not NHL ready, and forcing him to play an entire season in the NHL this early in his career will destroy his confidence and development. Sure, this is just a belief I have which is only really based on watching the games for years and my opinion is about as valid as anyone else's, but mark my words if we force Virtanen to stay all year long he'll end up in the press-box more often than not and we'll destroy any chance of an offensive star he ever had. The kid needs to go back to junior and score goals as a top liner. He hasn't even done that yet in the WHL and we CANNOT be happy with him staying as a 3rd or 4th line banger and checker in the NHL for a long time, because you simply don't waste 6th overall picks on checkers. We have to groom him to become a first line star and keeping him around isn't going to do that.

He might score 10 goals this year and you crazed Virtanen fans will cheer and hoot every time he does, but take a step back and look at the bigger picture. He cost us a 6th overall pick, we need a 20-30 goal scorer from him who can play physically, and quite frankly it doesn't have to be THIS season. We've got kids who can play in his spot, and a plethora of veterans as well, we don't need to rush him at all. Right now Virtanen isn't bringing anything that Gaunce or even Cracknell could, so why not play these guys and send Virtanen back to junior to develop more?

Do you not see all these 3rd period collapses.... WD is not playing the kids in the 3rd when we have a 1-2 goal lead. What that leads to is no Virtanen on the ice. With no Virtanen on the ice the other teams see this & realize they have more space to work with in the zone. Not afraid of getting hit & use that space to create opportunities. I don't see how the coaching staff is not seeing this.

I am not saying he should not be sent down, because I would much rather have a Chris Kreider than a Raffi Torres. So that scoring touch is really needed & he needs some confidence. However I think the team needs him more than he needs the team right now. If you understand what I'm saying?

[TOMapleLaughs]

Never mind that he'll learn nothing there, but also literally nobody in the WHL wants Virtanen to go back to junior.  lol

[oldnews]

Virtanen has impressed me more than I'd expected.  I find him particularly aware/alert - has better hockey intelligence as a rookie than I thought might be the case.  Smart, simple plays in his own zone, decent puck moving decisions under pressure - the areas you might think a young pwf might struggle.

Very nice to see.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

Virtanen has impressed me more than I'd expected.  I find him particularly aware/alert - has better hockey intelligence as a rookie than I thought might be the case.  Smart, simple plays in his own zone, decent puck moving decisions under pressure - the areas you might think a young pwf might struggle.

Very nice to see.

He may not have McCann's shot, but he also understands the importance of getting the puck on net. He's averaging about 2 SOG per game despite very little icetime. 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

I think Lucic - Sutter - Virtanen is gonna be an high-intensity 2-way line next year ;).

[Gaudette Celly]

I watched the Oiler's game for last ten minutes, let me tell you something you actually noticed Leon Draistel, but with Viratanen he is no were at the level Leon Draistel,It's time we bite our egos and admit Virtanen is years away from being a impact player.

What's that -- a new cell provider?

 

He claimed he plays a similar game to Rick Nash, I have not seen this at all! send him down please!

Is there a minor board we can send Desi down to?