Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[elvis15]

On 8/10/2017 at 1:38 PM, LimitedEdition said:

...

I don't even know what to say to this.  Tyler Seguin is known as one of the most ripped hockey players in the league.  Leave it up to CDC to claim Jake "Chubbs" Virtanen has a similar body type to Tyler Seguin, but doesn't look like it in photos due to his carb and sodium levels.

Wait, didn't you bring up Seguin in comparison? So aren't you comparing Seguin "as one of the most ripped hockey players in the league" and using that as a reason to call out Virtanen for not being as ripped?

 

I understand the motivation to have Virtanen in great shape rather than what he showed up like last year, but it's about functional fitness, not just his body fat percentage (or how much weight he has on the bar). Does he look ripped? No, but that doesn't mean he looks out of shape.

 

EDIT: went looking for a video of a friend of mine who is a pro strength trainer and used to work with Rugby Canada, and it's certainly lots of weight but man it looks grueling! But the trick is training multiple areas and different exercises to be a better athlete rather than just become a power lifter.

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by elvis15

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

Jake is going to hit 1000 pages before he even has a spot on the team....

 

....I can't help getting sad every time I come by here....

 

Jake does have the tools...may be a tool...needs to fixit before it's tool 8....

[theo5789]

15 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Look at the competition we have now on the Wings, Jake Virtanen needs to be a scorer for us and if he doesn't take a step forward this year who knows if he will get the opportunity to be that here.

 

Times have changed since Neely (who scored 20 in his D+2). Bertuzzi I'll give you but for every Bertuzzi & Neely there's a bunch of big guys who never make it.

 

Jake has the tools to still be a good player & hopefully Travis Green will help him along but he needs to take steps here at some point. Needless to say this is going to be his biggest training camp yet. Hopefully he comes in and is ready to be a player this year. 

There may be more wingers now, but maybe only Gadjovich provides what Virtanen would with his physicality. He needs to produce more offense if he expects to be in the top 6 for sure, but he has the traits that could allow him to play bottom 6 minutes as well, unlike some of the other wingers we have who have more pressure to produce offensively to stick in the NHL.

 

I personally think Virtanen could use one more season in Utica before getting a real look at full time duties in the NHL, so I won't be upset if he gets sent down again this season. However, he looks to be committed to his fitness this year and is showing that he has the determination to try and be successful, so if he wins out a spot this year, then that is just a bonus.

 

This may not be a Neely or Bertuzzi situation, but I rather not find out the hard way dealing him too early with so much potential still there.

[Smashian Kassian]

On 8/12/2017 at 3:13 PM, theo5789 said:

There may be more wingers now, but maybe only Gadjovich provides what Virtanen would with his physicality. He needs to produce more offense if he expects to be in the top 6 for sure, but he has the traits that could allow him to play bottom 6 minutes as well, unlike some of the other wingers we have who have more pressure to produce offensively to stick in the NHL.

 

I personally think Virtanen could use one more season in Utica before getting a real look at full time duties in the NHL, so I won't be upset if he gets sent down again this season. However, he looks to be committed to his fitness this year and is showing that he has the determination to try and be successful, so if he wins out a spot this year, then that is just a bonus.

 

This may not be a Neely or Bertuzzi situation, but I rather not find out the hard way dealing him too early with so much potential still there.

Well we didn't draft him 6th overall to be a bottom 6 forward. "Make or break" is perhaps a bit much your right, but it is kinda getting to that point where he's a few years in and the offense hasn't really been there since his draft year. We are adding pieces, guys are passing him on the depth chart, UFA signings, new draft picks, exc. And those things aren't making it any easier for him to be an offensive player for us in the near future.

 

I guess my worry is that we ultimately end up with nothing from what was (at the time) a really key pick for us. I would rather see him put it together in Vancouver & be a scoring power winger. But at the same time if he can't take a step forward, and say JB has a deal come along involving Jake that makes sense for us, perhaps its something to think about before he's valueless. I know that is assuming worst case scenario, but if he doesn't start to take some steps in development/continues to not show the offense we need from him then perhaps its something to start thinking about if there's an asset available that makes sense.

 

[theo5789]

34 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Well we didn't draft him 6th overall to be a bottom 6 forward. "Make or break" is perhaps a bit much your right, but it is kinda getting to that point where he's a few years in and the offense hasn't really been there since his draft year. We are adding pieces, guys are passing him on the depth chart, UFA signings, new draft picks, exc. And those things aren't making it any easier for him to be an offensive player for us in the near future.

 

I guess my worry is that we ultimately end up with nothing from what was (at the time) a really key pick for us. I would rather see him put it together in Vancouver & be a scoring power winger. But at the same time if he can't take a step forward, and say JB has a deal come along involving Jake that makes sense for us, perhaps its something to think about before he's valueless. I know that is assuming worst case scenario, but if he doesn't start to take some steps in development/continues to not show the offense we need from him then perhaps its something to start thinking about if there's an asset available that makes sense.

 

I know we didn't draft him to be in the bottom 6, but my point is not all is lost if it takes longer for him to find his offensive game because he can contribute in the bottom 6. If he can play physical, and be decent defensively in the meantime, then he will be at least a serviceable player rather than the nothing you worry that he may become. Could he potentially become nothing? Sure, but so could any player not a generational talent.

 

I rather we invest in the local kid and develop him properly instead of having expectations for him to succeed immediately or move on. I wouldn't be oppose to a trade that makes sense for us either, but right now he is the type of player that we are missing in our lineup.

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Well we didn't draft him 6th overall to be a bottom 6 forward. "Make or break" is perhaps a bit much your right, but it is kinda getting to that point where he's a few years in and the offense hasn't really been there since his draft year. We are adding pieces, guys are passing him on the depth chart, UFA signings, new draft picks, exc. And those things aren't making it any easier for him to be an offensive player for us in the near future.

 

I guess my worry is that we ultimately end up with nothing from what was (at the time) a really key pick for us. I would rather see him put it together in Vancouver & be a scoring power winger. But at the same time if he can't take a step forward, and say JB has a deal come along involving Jake that makes sense for us, perhaps its something to think about before he's valueless. I know that is assuming worst case scenario, but if he doesn't start to take some steps in development/continues to not show the offense we need from him then perhaps its something to start thinking about if there's an asset available that makes sense.

I want to point to you a player who was also drafted 6th overall back in 2000: Scott Hartnell. He's a fairly big guy at 214 pounds and 6 foot 2 who has played a lengthy career. He scored 16 points in 75 games his first season. If Virtanen was on pace for 75 games his first season he would have actually outscored Hartnell.

 

Now, I wouldn't exactly call Hartnell a 1st line player. He certainly wasn't at first. His 3rd season he scored only 34 points in 82 games. In fact, he never went past the 50 point mark until his 8th season.

 

Imagine if we had Hartnell during the playoff run back in 2011? He was pretty significant with the Flyers when they got to the final. He would likely have done the same for us. Yet, he's not a 1st line player. In his 1st 8 seasons, he arguably wasn't even a 2nd line player. He was a bottom 6 player drafted at 6th overall.

 

So should we really be placing such high expectations on Virtanen or let him at least try and find his way? Patience is something CDC lacks, which I understand, but if Virtanen gets back into the NHL, I think that's what really should matter, just that. I don't think 6th overall should matter at all when there are other examples out there of players who gradually develop over time into better players... even after 8 seasons.

[NameFaker]

39 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I want to point to you a player who was also drafted 6th overall back in 2000: Scott Hartnell. He's a fairly big guy at 214 pounds and 6 foot 2 who has played a lengthy career. He scored 16 points in 75 games his first season. If Virtanen was on pace for 75 games his first season he would have actually outscored Hartnell.

 

Now, I wouldn't exactly call Hartnell a 1st line player. He certainly wasn't at first. His 3rd season he scored only 34 points in 82 games. In fact, he never went past the 50 point mark until his 8th season.

 

Imagine if we had Hartnell during the playoff run back in 2011? He was pretty significant with the Flyers when they got to the final. He would likely have done the same for us. Yet, he's not a 1st line player. In his 1st 8 seasons, he arguably wasn't even a 2nd line player. He was a bottom 6 player drafted at 6th overall.

 

So should we really be placing such high expectations on Virtanen or let him at least try and find his way? Patience is something CDC lacks, which I understand, but if Virtanen gets back into the NHL, I think that's what really should matter, just that. I don't think 6th overall should matter at all when there are other examples out there of players who gradually develop over time into better players... even after 8 seasons.

Tasty.

[Erik Karlsson]

The thing I worry about the most is his shoulder. Just hope he can play a physical game without re injurying it. Not many guys can hit like him.

[RetroCanuck]

Jake Virtanen's development is on a longer curve. It means we can pay him less for longer which helps our cap situation. In the league now you need cheaper contracts if you want to compete for cups!

[Alflives]

54 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

Jake Virtanen's development is on a longer curve. It means we can pay him less for longer which helps our cap situation. In the league now you need cheaper contracts if you want to compete for cups!

I understand what you're saying.  When Jake is in his prime years, he will still be earning a lower salary.  Personally, I would rather he breaks out this season, becomes a 20+ goal scorer, who hits, and pay him more now.  

[Rob_Zepp]

6 hours ago, Erik Karlsson said:

The thing I worry about the most is his shoulder. Just hope he can play a physical game without re injurying it. Not many guys can hit like him.

His shoulder injury isn't the type that can happen again with any more likelihood of it previously - in fact with the Bankart procedure the shoulder is stronger to that nature of damage than it was prior to injury.   It can take a while mentally to get over any injury but they way he was playing last half of last year certainly didn't seem like he gave it any thought at all.

[Fantomex]

10 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

His shoulder injury isn't the type that can happen again with any more likelihood of it previously - in fact with the Bankart procedure the shoulder is stronger to that nature of damage than it was prior to injury.   It can take a while mentally to get over any injury but they way he was playing last half of last year certainly didn't seem like he gave it any thought at all.

Let them sleep on Jake. The kid is hungry, and that stint in Utica only added to that. With TG behind the bench, I expect Jake to have a good handle on what he'll need to do to stay in the lineup. I honestly think that Willie messed with that Jakes' head more than we know. I'm not saying he was bad for all the kids, but it's clear that he didn't communicate well with many of our youngsters, as seen by the Tryamkin exit and many of the departing interviews.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Fantomex
The grammar nazi inside me went berserk.

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, Fantomex said:

Let them sleep on Jake. The kid is hungry, and that stint in Utica only added to that. With TG behind the bench, I expect Jake to have a good handle on what he'll need to do to stay in the lineup. I honestly think that Willie messed with that Jakes' head more than we know. I'm not saying he was bad for all the kids, but it's clear that he didn't communicate well with many of our youngsters, as seen by the Tryamkin exit and many of the departing interviews.

I agree about Willie.  If he did a good job, would he have been fired?  

[Fantomex]

Just now, Alflives said:

I agree about Willie.  If he did a good job, would he have been fired?  

The NHL is, to quote Josh Donaldson of the Blue Jays, the "Git-r-Dun" league. Willie didn't get the job done. The biggest issue I think most of us had was his player deployment and inability to change tactics when he was clearly being out-coached. Having said that, his handling of many young players was, to be polite, confusing. The exit interviews over his tenure told a very clear story, he wasn't communicating with all of his young players as well as management was hoping. I still can't believe that we've lost Tryamkin... I realize that may be more of a byproduct of the cultural differences he encountered, but you can't help but wonder if he was used more appropriately and consistently we would still have his presence on our blueline.

[aGENT]

11 hours ago, The Lock said:

I want to point to you a player who was also drafted 6th overall back in 2000: Scott Hartnell. He's a fairly big guy at 214 pounds and 6 foot 2 who has played a lengthy career. He scored 16 points in 75 games his first season. If Virtanen was on pace for 75 games his first season he would have actually outscored Hartnell.

 

Now, I wouldn't exactly call Hartnell a 1st line player. He certainly wasn't at first. His 3rd season he scored only 34 points in 82 games. In fact, he never went past the 50 point mark until his 8th season.

 

Imagine if we had Hartnell during the playoff run back in 2011? He was pretty significant with the Flyers when they got to the final. He would likely have done the same for us. Yet, he's not a 1st line player. In his 1st 8 seasons, he arguably wasn't even a 2nd line player. He was a bottom 6 player drafted at 6th overall.

 

So should we really be placing such high expectations on Virtanen or let him at least try and find his way? Patience is something CDC lacks, which I understand, but if Virtanen gets back into the NHL, I think that's what really should matter, just that. I don't think 6th overall should matter at all when there are other examples out there of players who gradually develop over time into better players... even after 8 seasons.

 

Imagine a player, Hartnell-esque, who can skate like the wind 

[The Lock]

44 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Imagine a player, Hartnell-esque, who can skate like the wind 

Indeed.

 

Another player who was drafted at 6th overall is Scottie Upshall back in 2002. Not as big of a guy and more of a bottom 6 player than Hartnell really, but still not exactly a bust given how long he's played in the league.

 

People seem to want to think 6th overall means top 6 forward, but that's not always going to be the case. I can understand people wanting the sun and the moon, especially during a rebuild, but all of these expectations of a 6th overall being a top 6 forward are unnecessary when we clearly have other 1st round picks playing better like Horvat and Boeser.

 

At least Virtanen's not just "withering away". He's actually trying to get in shape and be a better player. I just don't understand what people are expecting when he's clearly not giving up so easily.

Edited August 14, 2017 by The Lock

[Sugar baby watermelon]

Virtanen is 229 lbs and can skate like the wind.  One thing to enjoy when we see him next, bodies will bounce off of him like they are hitting a brick wall.  His reactionary hitting is something to see isn't it, versus his looking for players to go out and hit.  

 

If he goes back to Utica, I wouldn't be disappointed, he could get top 1st or 2nd line minutes and the chance to develop with some of the top prospects.  I would like to think he makes it to the big club this year but where would he fit?  He is slotted in as RW and we have an over abundance of righties. We have Rodin, Goldobin, Dorsett, Granlund, (although he is listed as a C, but played RW with the twins last year), Ericksson, (who is listed as a LW but played on his off-wing for what all 3 lines?).  I read somewhere that he did play LW prior but am not sure if this is true or not.  

 

What would our lineup look like on opening night?

The twins-Granlund

Baertschi-Bo-Boeser

Gagner-Sutter-Ericksson

Rodin?Virtanen-Burmistrov-Dorsett?

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Sugar baby watermelon

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

His shoulder injury isn't the type that can happen again with any more likelihood of it previously - in fact with the Bankart procedure the shoulder is stronger to that nature of damage than it was prior to injury.   It can take a while mentally to get over any injury but they way he was playing last half of last year certainly didn't seem like he gave it any thought at all.

Several of the Utica regulars on here said that Virtanen showed no sign of pulling his hits on the back half of the season. Virtanen's speed and physicality are major reasons why he can play NHL without putting up big ppg. 

[Canuck Surfer]

On 8/12/2017 at 1:43 AM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

What he really meant to say was "we'll miss him, but not as much as Tammy Horton and Talia Chiarelli will."

The inference is that Tyler was doing the boss's daughter and his teammates wife?

[Zhukini]

3 hours ago, Sugar baby watermelon said:

Virtanen is 229 lbs and can skate like the wind.  One thing to enjoy when we see him next, bodies will bounce off of him like they are hitting a brick wall.  His reactionary hitting is something to see isn't it, versus his looking for players to go out and hit.  

 

If he goes back to Utica, I wouldn't be disappointed, he could get top 1st or 2nd line minutes and the chance to develop with some of the top prospects.  I would like to think he makes it to the big club this year but where would he fit?  He is slotted in as RW and we have an over abundance of righties. We have Rodin, Goldobin, Dorsett, Granlund, (although he is listed as a C, but played RW with the twins last year), Ericksson, (who is listed as a LW but played on his off-wing for what all 3 lines?).  I read somewhere that he did play LW prior but am not sure if this is true or not.  

 

What would our lineup look like on opening night?

The twins-Granlund

Baertschi-Bo-Boeser

Gagner-Sutter-Ericksson

Rodin?Virtanen-Burmistrov-Dorsett?

 

We better hope he's not 229 pounds, because sure, he could skate like the wind at that weight... for 10 seconds before he was catching his breath for another five minutes.