Toews Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: My measly 2 cents on Jake I stated numerous times that this would be the year he needs to come in, show he's fit, show he's hungry and start showing people he belongs. He's a long LONG way to go still to show some of that, but he's on the right road. Would like to see him and Boeser in the AHL with Dahlen and Goldobin and allow the team to sink or swim based on the current line up and ves they have. Allowing Virtanen and the rest of the under 23 crowd to start gelling and winning as a group instead of living in the fishbowl of Vancouver Personally if he makes the team and proves himself better than the competition, then he deserves to be in the NHL. Maybe it's just me but I feel like if he earns his way there then he should be there. If he does all that and its clear he has worked his tail off in the offseason then I can see it being potentially damaging to his psyche to continue holding him back. He will be waiver eligible next year so it will be especially nice if he can grab a foothold in the NHL and continue building upwards. There are a few guys who started out on the 4th line and continue to move upwards. IMO let him reap the rewards if has put in the work to meet those standards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Toews said: Personally if he makes the team and proves himself better than the competition, then he deserves to be in the NHL. Maybe it's just me but I feel like if he earns his way there then he should be there. If he does all that and its clear he has worked his tail off in the offseason then I can see it being potentially damaging to his psyche to continue holding him back. He will be waiver eligible next year so it will be especially nice if he can grab a foothold in the NHL and continue building upwards. There are a few guys who started out on the 4th line and continue to move upwards. IMO let him reap the rewards if has put in the work to meet those standards. The league is literally littered with dozens of players drafted top 10 that never progressed past 3rd or 4th line players, and even more top 10 picks that never even made the league full time. Jake will or won't and that's on him now 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, Warhippy said: My measly 2 cents on Jake I stated numerous times that this would be the year he needs to come in, show he's fit, show he's hungry and start showing people he belongs. He's a long LONG way to go still to show some of that, but he's on the right road. Would like to see him and Boeser in the AHL with Dahlen and Goldobin and allow the team to sink or swim based on the current line up and ves they have. Allowing Virtanen and the rest of the under 23 crowd to start gelling and winning as a group instead of living in the fishbowl of Vancouver Yup, despite both Boeser and Virtanen showing signs of being 'ready', I'd still not be opposed at all to sending them to Utica. Sedin, Sedin, Granlund Rodin, Horvat, Vanek/Eriksson Baer, Gagner, Eriksson/Vanek Burmistrov, Sutter, Dorsett (Gaunce on IR, possibly Upshall as 13th in the mean time). Top 6In Utica: Goldobin, Chaput, Boeser Dahlen, Megna/MacEwan, Virtanen They'll get plenty of time with injuries and after moving a few guys at the TDL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, Warhippy said: The league is literally littered with dozens of players drafted top 10 that never progressed past 3rd or 4th line players, and even more top 10 picks that never even made the league full time. Jake will or won't and that's on him now 12 minutes ago, J.R. said: Yup, despite both Boeser and Virtanen showing signs of being 'ready', I'd still not be opposed at all to sending them to Utica. Sedin, Sedin, Granlund Rodin, Horvat, Vanek/Eriksson Baer, Gagner, Eriksson/Vanek Burmistrov, Sutter, Dorsett (Gaunce on IR, possibly Upshall as 13th in the mean time). Top 6In Utica: Goldobin, Chaput, Boeser Dahlen, Megna/MacEwan, Virtanen They'll get plenty of time with injuries and after moving a few guys at the TDL. Definitely agree that Virtanen should go to the AHL and try to get his offensive game going there but as Warhippy said, he's come a long way and glad to see him making so much progress. If he stays on the right track, this kid will be worth the wait. But most importantly, he needs to play with confidence especially in the offensive zone to be effective. As for Boeser, I don't agree that he should go down to the minors. I don't think he needs to prove anything there. He's got the smarts, skating ability and definitely the shot to make an impact in the NHL. To me that's more important than dominating the AHL. If he gets 10-13 mins here playing on the PP, I think he would learn more. Sending kids to the minor league can go one of 2 ways, they can gain confidence if they are lacking which would be great, but if they already have the confidence, they get some extra "false" confidence (almost an ego) which could work against them, teaching them some bad habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just now, Vanuckles said: Definitely agree that Virtanen should go to the AHL and try to get his offensive game going there but as Warhippy said, he's come a long way and glad to see him making so much progress. If he stays on the right track, this kid will be worth the wait. But most importantly, he needs to play with confidence especially in the offensive zone to be effective. As for Boeser, I don't agree that he should go down to the minors. I don't think he needs to prove anything there. He's got the smarts, skating ability and definitely the shot to make an impact in the NHL. To me that's more important than dominating the AHL. If he gets 10-13 mins here playing on the PP, I think he would learn more. Sending kids to the minor league can go one of 2 ways, they can gain confidence if they are lacking which would be great, but if they already have the confidence, they get some extra "false" confidence (almost an ego) which could work against them, teaching them some bad habits. I'm not worried about Boeser getting an ego. Not even remotely. I think he gets similar treatment to Stecher last year personally. He'll be the first call up from Utica and likely play 30+ games this season with injuries and TDL movement. Some time dominating with his future line mates on a good Utica team will not be the end of him. That said, I'm also fine having him here. I just personally think it's less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Vanuckles said: Definitely agree that Virtanen should go to the AHL and try to get his offensive game going there but as Warhippy said, he's come a long way and glad to see him making so much progress. If he stays on the right track, this kid will be worth the wait. But most importantly, he needs to play with confidence especially in the offensive zone to be effective. As for Boeser, I don't agree that he should go down to the minors. I don't think he needs to prove anything there. He's got the smarts, skating ability and definitely the shot to make an impact in the NHL. To me that's more important than dominating the AHL. If he gets 10-13 mins here playing on the PP, I think he would learn more. Sending kids to the minor league can go one of 2 ways, they can gain confidence if they are lacking which would be great, but if they already have the confidence, they get some extra "false" confidence (almost an ego) which could work against them, teaching them some bad habits. For me re: Boeser it isn't about proving anything. it is about building that essential chemistry getting him used to the rigors of a 65+ game season and to ensure that we can have Rodin in the line up. We're looking at a maximum of possibly 5 contracts we can shed at the TDL. I'd like to maximize that in a draft that is apparently top heavy with some of the mroe select D prospects we've seen in a decade. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Warhippy said: For me re: Boeser it isn't about proving anything. it is about building that essential chemistry getting him used to the rigors of a 65+ game season and to ensure that we can have Rodin in the line up. We're looking at a maximum of possibly 5 contracts we can shed at the TDL. I'd like to maximize that in a draft that is apparently top heavy with some of the mroe select D prospects we've seen in a decade. Yup... Rodin, Vanek, Burmistrov, Boucher (if unclaimed and has a decent year), Wiercioch, Guddy (only if he's not re-signing), Biega could all be moved for picks/prospects. There's even the possibility of one of Baer/Granlund if it's prudent to do so. That's a decent pile of chips to potentially cash in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 51 minutes ago, Warhippy said: The league is literally littered with dozens of players drafted top 10 that never progressed past 3rd or 4th line players, and even more top 10 picks that never even made the league full time. Jake will or won't and that's on him now Agree mostly, but the franchise, in my view, still also holds some responsibility for developing this player properly (which they didn't at first and I don't think anyone can argue that). Let's remember he's still a very young kid even though he's got some pro-experience under his belt he's got a LOT of learning/developing yet to do and the Canucks organization needs to recognize this and give him the coaching/mentorship that he needs to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 46 minutes ago, J.R. said: Yup... Rodin, Vanek, Burmistrov, Boucher (if unclaimed and has a decent year), Wiercioch, Guddy (only if he's not re-signing), Biega could all be moved for picks/prospects. There's even the possibility of one of Baer/Granlund if it's prudent to do so. That's a decent pile of chips to potentially cash in. I'd go even further We need Boeser/Virtanen in the AHL to ensure Boucher/Rodin have spots Trade bait Rodin Boucher Burmistrov Del Zotto Dorsett Vanek Sutter Hutton/Tanev Subban Weircoch I'd add in Eriksson too but we cannot retain anything on him at this moment due to the Hansen retention. I could see all of those guys gone within the next season or two. but would peg them all as trade bait this year. Yes we'd suuuuuck. But we'd also suck next year with the glut of youth we'd be adding to the roster and in 2019/2020 we'd be on the incline. This year is not eh year to introduce our kids. Next year is. Next year shows us the start of the transition from empty cupboards to stockpiled depth within the organization. This year leaving Virtanen down with Boeser et al. next year bringing them in, shedding 3-5 contracts via trade. Building more. Seeing 3-6 new faces from drafting entering the Comets. 2019/2020 bringing in 1-3 more guys seeing and 3-6 enter the comets. Thus beginning the revolving door of actual in house depth this organization has never ever had. Imagine for once being a canucks fan in 2020-2021 and not worrying at all about free agency but instead fearing the TDL knowing we've to many kids and need to lose someone good to shore up a spot somewhere else. 2 more years of top 10 drafting, 1 year of outside of the playoff drafting then...who knows. I don't want to see Virtanen on the team unless it is via emergency call up only. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I'd go even further We need Boeser/Virtanen in the AHL to ensure Boucher/Rodin have spots Trade bait Rodin Boucher Burmistrov Del Zotto Dorsett Vanek Sutter Hutton/Tanev Subban Weircoch I'd add in Eriksson too but we cannot retain anything on him at this moment due to the Hansen retention. I could see all of those guys gone within the next season or two. but would peg them all as trade bait this year. Yes we'd suuuuuck. But we'd also suck next year with the glut of youth we'd be adding to the roster and in 2019/2020 we'd be on the incline. This year is not eh year to introduce our kids. Next year is. Next year shows us the start of the transition from empty cupboards to stockpiled depth within the organization. This year leaving Virtanen down with Boeser et al. next year bringing them in, shedding 3-5 contracts via trade. Building more. Seeing 3-6 new faces from drafting entering the Comets. 2019/2020 bringing in 1-3 more guys seeing and 3-6 enter the comets. Thus beginning the revolving door of actual in house depth this organization has never ever had. Imagine for once being a canucks fan in 2020-2021 and not worrying at all about free agency but instead fearing the TDL knowing we've to many kids and need to lose someone good to shore up a spot somewhere else. 2 more years of top 10 drafting, 1 year of outside of the playoff drafting then...who knows. I don't want to see Virtanen on the team unless it is via emergency call up only. While I don't disagree with your assesment. The players you've listed, I'm not convinced would garner us any 1st or 2nd round picks next year. They might get us a few 3rd round picks with Sutter, Tanev being the exception. Vanek IF he performs well I can see them fetching the Canucks 2nd round picks, maybe Tanev could get us a mid to late first round pick. Trying not to be biased as a Canucks fan, and I wish that all of our players could fetch high round picks, but that's just not being realistic. Hoping that Jim has another good year of trading like last year where he fetched us Goldobin, and Dahlen from both SJ and Ottawa. What will he do this year with those available and potential trade bait players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Fanuck said: Agree mostly, but the franchise, in my view, still also holds some responsibility for developing this player properly (which they didn't at first and I don't think anyone can argue that). Let's remember he's still a very young kid even though he's got some pro-experience under his belt he's got a LOT of learning/developing yet to do and the Canucks organization needs to recognize this and give him the coaching/mentorship that he needs to be successful. Yeah. Unfortunately, I have to agree that the organization did mess up the first time around, but Virtanen's still young, and in the two pre-season games thus far, he's shown to be miles ahead of where he was last year. This is the Jake I expected to see last year. I don't mind him going down to Utica for more seasoning, and more of a top six, offensive role in Utica. I also don't mind if he sticks on the big team. Feel that Jake and Green have a good working relationship (based off of Utica, of course), and I get the sense that Green could be the coach for Jake to help him progress as a player. Whatever is best for Jake, as a fan, I'll take it. He looks good out there on the ice though, in the 2 pre-season games, have to admit. And what's happened to all the Virtanen doubters and haters out there? He's shown well in 2 games, and suddenly they all disappear? LMAO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I'd go even further We need Boeser/Virtanen in the AHL to ensure Boucher/Rodin have spots Trade bait Rodin Boucher Burmistrov Del Zotto Dorsett Vanek Sutter Hutton/Tanev Subban Weircoch I'd add in Eriksson too but we cannot retain anything on him at this moment due to the Hansen retention. I could see all of those guys gone within the next season or two. but would peg them all as trade bait this year. Yes we'd suuuuuck. But we'd also suck next year with the glut of youth we'd be adding to the roster and in 2019/2020 we'd be on the incline. This year is not eh year to introduce our kids. Next year is. Next year shows us the start of the transition from empty cupboards to stockpiled depth within the organization. This year leaving Virtanen down with Boeser et al. next year bringing them in, shedding 3-5 contracts via trade. Building more. Seeing 3-6 new faces from drafting entering the Comets. 2019/2020 bringing in 1-3 more guys seeing and 3-6 enter the comets. Thus beginning the revolving door of actual in house depth this organization has never ever had. Imagine for once being a canucks fan in 2020-2021 and not worrying at all about free agency but instead fearing the TDL knowing we've to many kids and need to lose someone good to shore up a spot somewhere else. 2 more years of top 10 drafting, 1 year of outside of the playoff drafting then...who knows. I don't want to see Virtanen on the team unless it is via emergency call up only. Agreed other than I haven't seen a damn thing from Boucher that would have him on the roster, even as 13th. Waived IMO. If he clears to Utica, great. If not...oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, J.R. said: Agreed other than I haven't seen a damn thing from Boucher that would have him on the roster, even as 13th. Waived IMO. If he clears to Utica, great. If not...oh well. Losing Boucher wouldn't be a big deal. Maybe another team claims him. Maybe NJ picks him back up. Must suck to be on the waiver wire so often..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 3 hours ago, J.R. said: Loving all his takeaways on the back check That and the ability to get loose picks have always been a couple of his assets, due in no small part to his speed. Once he gains the experience of processing the pro game and puts it all together there's no telling how much impact on a game he can have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 31 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: While I don't disagree with your assesment. The players you've listed, I'm not convinced would garner us any 1st or 2nd round picks next year. They might get us a few 3rd round picks with Sutter, Tanev being the exception. Vanek IF he performs well I can see them fetching the Canucks 2nd round picks, maybe Tanev could get us a mid to late first round pick. Trying not to be biased as a Canucks fan, and I wish that all of our players could fetch high round picks, but that's just not being realistic. Hoping that Jim has another good year of trading like last year where he fetched us Goldobin, and Dahlen from both SJ and Ottawa. What will he do this year with those available and potential trade bait players? I didn't say anything about first round picks. Although at the TDL Gudbranson tanev Vanek Could all capably net 1sts or 2nds and high prospects depending on the seasons they have. It's more about adding a bunch of or glut of picks over the next 2 drafts in the 2nd through 5th rounds to ensure maximum depth in our organization. Allow benning to work his magic before he gets turfed 8 minutes ago, J.R. said: Agreed other than I haven't seen a damn thing from Boucher that would have him on the roster, even as 13th. Waived IMO. If he clears to Utica, great. If not...oh well. Hard to say. Megan/Chaput didn't have a place last year either but.... Boucher for me is Virtanens worst possible outcome, but I'd fire Boucher out the door for a 5th and smile about it at the TDL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Losing Boucher wouldn't be a big deal. Maybe another team claims him. Maybe NJ picks him back up. Must suck to be on the waiver wire so often..... Waive him to Utica and the Comets gain another scorer. Lose him to waivers and we drop a contract. Not likely fun changing addresses so frequently, but then again he doesn't seem to take very seriously what coaches and management tell him he needs to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I didn't say anything about first round picks. Although at the TDL Gudbranson tanev Vanek Could all capably net 1sts or 2nds and high prospects depending on the seasons they have. It's more about adding a bunch of or glut of picks over the next 2 drafts in the 2nd through 5th rounds to ensure maximum depth in our organization. Allow benning to work his magic before he gets turfed Hard to say. Megan/Chaput didn't have a place last year either but.... Boucher for me is Virtanens worst possible outcome, but I'd fire Boucher out the door for a 5th and smile about it at the TDL I'd take either Megna/Chaput over Boucher as 13th in a heart beat FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, J.R. said: I'd take either Megna/Chaput over Boucher as 13th in a heart beat FWIW. I'd fire them all out the door for a bag of pucks and force Linden to strap on skates again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 48 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Yeah. Unfortunately, I have to agree that the organization did mess up the first time around, but Virtanen's still young, and in the two pre-season games thus far, he's shown to be miles ahead of where he was last year. This is the Jake I expected to see last year. I don't mind him going down to Utica for more seasoning, and more of a top six, offensive role in Utica. I also don't mind if he sticks on the big team. Feel that Jake and Green have a good working relationship (based off of Utica, of course), and I get the sense that Green could be the coach for Jake to help him progress as a player. Whatever is best for Jake, as a fan, I'll take it. He looks good out there on the ice though, in the 2 pre-season games, have to admit. And what's happened to all the Virtanen doubters and haters out there? He's shown well in 2 games, and suddenly they all disappear? LMAO. Them crabby folk crawled under another rock. Likely slinging mud at a young Finnish D-man, about now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) you guys and the talk about "ego". really really poor english skills here lol! this might help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego or maybe you mean "devloping a habit"? That would make more sense... Edited September 18, 2017 by canucksnihilist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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