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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


avelanch

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Read his comment wrong, thought he was going over the top with it saying that Virtanen is better than everyone else in almost every way, my bad.

I think he is among the best in those areas, (his strengths that you listed) but I do think there is room for debate.

His skating is among the very best, but there are some other fast skaters, and other good skaters.

His shot is really good, but I don't think its the hardest (Ekblad has a bomb) and there are some other accurate shooters that I would say are debatable (guys like Dal Colle, Fabbri & McCann come to mind, along with Jake obvs)

And physically he has impressive strength, I do think Nick Ritchie is more aggressive though.

Sometimes it seems like any criticism is too much criticism.

That's still pretty good company to be in. He may not be the clear cut No.1 in every category but he is up there for sure and is a combination of it all, which few others are. This package is what makes him so valuable.

The thing with "aggression" is that there can be too much of it, unlike the other attributes, so it isn't necessarily a good thing to be the most aggressive guy. Ritchie tends to play the line pretty closely between aggressive and undisciplined. Bob McKenzie said that he took a penalty in the game that could be considered a major during the WJ tournament. I've seen Virtanen play 4 full WHL games this season (I know, not many) and the Super Series games, and what's nice is that he doesn't seem to go out of his way to use his physicality. He'll use it (effectively) to push off defenders and finish checks, but he doesn't get lost in trying to hit everything that moves.

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Few pages back I talked about how he needs to work on his defensive game. Thats going to be his biggest obstacle. If he can figure out the other side of the rink hes going to be scary with that tool set.

I think his biggest obstacle is consistency with his decision making.

I think coming out of junior most offensive players need to improve their defensive games, Virtanen will have to aswell & I'm sure he will.

but I think to unlock his full potential he will need to be more consistent with his decisions, like junglesniper noted some bad things that he did in the game, and I saw some of those bad things when I saw him at the U18's, but then in the SSS games he wasn't doing any of that and looked alot better, he may never get that consistency, we will see, but if he could, then I really think he could be a force with his toolset as you mention.

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That's still pretty good company to be in. He may not be the clear cut No.1 in every category but he is up there for sure and is a combination of it all, which few others are. This package is what makes him so valuable.

The thing with "aggression" is that there can be too much of it, unlike the other attributes, so it isn't necessarily a good thing to be the most aggressive guy. Ritchie tends to play the line pretty closely between aggressive and undisciplined. Bob McKenzie said that he took a penalty in the game that could be considered a major during the WJ tournament. I've seen Virtanen play 4 full WHL games this season (I know, not many) and the Super Series games, and what's nice is that he doesn't seem to go out of his way to use his physicality. He'll use it (effectively) to push off defenders and finish checks, but he doesn't get lost in trying to hit everything that moves.

I pretty much agree, I think in certain situations you want too see aggressiveness more, and some you don't.

Ritchie is more aggressive and its troublesome because he can sometimes cross the line, but then there are times also where from a physical standpoint he is standing out in the game more than someone like Virtanen who has the ability but doesn't go out of his way to assert himself as often.

I think for both players its really about finding that middle ground. And from what I have seen Virtanen is good about being physical but not going overboard which is great.

And as far as me listing other guys & saying its debatable, I'm not trying to be negative about Virtanen, I just thought the comment was a bit much, Virtanen is absolutely among the cream of the crop in this draft class as far as those areas go which is outstanding but I don't see him as head and shoulders above some others like the one poster said.

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I like how he engages in hitting players when hes the one with puck possession. Not many guys have the balance and strength to do that. Reminds me of Forsberg and how he would do the same thing. Hopefully Kassian has figured out his game by the time Virtanen is on the team. Those are two big fast right wingers :)

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I didnt watch the games but he had 6 points in 6 periods. His teammates are calling him showtime already. I think your maybe being a little too critical.

6 points in 6 periods against the CIS all-stars, it really isn't a big feat.

Offence is good and all but in key situations in a tournament with little to no room for error, he might not get deployed for those situations is what I'm saying. His decision making with the puck could be costly.

All i'm saying is that he's a high risk high reward player and in a tournament where risk can be an issue, he might not see the ice in key moments in 3rd periods.

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6 points in 6 periods against the CIS all-stars, it really isn't a big feat.

Offence is good and all but in key situations in a tournament with little to no room for error, he might not get deployed for those situations is what I'm saying. His decision making with the puck could be costly.

All i'm saying is that he's a high risk high reward player and in a tournament where risk can be an issue, he might not see the ice in key moments in 3rd periods.

That's what we've been saying for the past 2 years with Drouin, MacKinnon (2 years ago) and McDavid last year. But, they weren't the one that cost us two 4th place in a row. Specially after a few months after MacKinnon tore apart the Memorial Cup, maybe he should have been utilized more.

I know Jake is no MacKinnon or McDavid....but you can't bench a player because he's risky, if he's playing well and contributing. Ok you might not send him, with 30 sec. left in a defensive zone faceoff with 1G lead and the opposing goalie pulled. But to keep him out of every key moment in the 3rd period is exagerating. If he can't be trusted, then he doesn't deserve to be on the team.

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That's what we've been saying for the past 2 years with Drouin, MacKinnon (2 years ago) and McDavid last year. But, they weren't the one that cost us two 4th place in a row. Specially after a few months after MacKinnon tore apart the Memorial Cup, maybe he should have been utilized more.

I know Jake is no MacKinnon or McDavid....but you can't bench a player because he's risky, if he's playing well and contributing. Ok you might not send him, with 30 sec. left in a defensive zone faceoff with 1G lead and the opposing goalie pulled. But to keep him out of every key moment in the 3rd period is exagerating. If he can't be trusted, then he doesn't deserve to be on the team.

The logical way of thinking, in normal hockey terms, is to play the best player. I agree with you there, Mackinnon, Drouin were held back on a leash and so was McDavid. But our normal way of analyzing hockey, which is at the Juniors level, AHL level and NHL level need not apply to the WJC. It's almost like football playoffs where winner takes all.

The world juniors is a sprint where as the Memorial Cup run, Calder Cup run and Stanley Cup run are marathons. They are completely different and they are therefor approach differently.

If you guys have ever played hockey you can relate to this. When you go away for tournaments you play a different kind of game as opposed to your season.

I might be overanalyzing things or being overly critical in some peoples eyes but I'm really not. I just want to express that although Virtanen is going to be a player worth watching in the tournament, I don't think he'll be counted on to be deployed for key tactical situations because of his decision making and THAT'S OK.

Edited by junglesniper
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All I'm saying is he's 18 and led a bunch of the countries best U20 players in scoring on the same ice in the same game against the same team.

Tiny sample, but what more can you ask of the kid so far? SHould he have scored 6 goals and had 6 assists in 2 games? Would that have pleased the unwaivering critics?

How many points did Dal Colle have? What if we had had him and not Virtanen, how much would this board be blowing up right now, with why didn't we take Virtanen comments? Local kid physical and can score?

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All I'm saying is he's 18 and led a bunch of the countries best U20 players in scoring on the same ice in the same game against the same team.

Tiny sample, but what more can you ask of the kid so far? SHould he have scored 6 goals and had 6 assists in 2 games? Would that have pleased the unwaivering critics?

How many points did Dal Colle have? What if we had had him and not Virtanen, how much would this board be blowing up right now, with why didn't we take Virtanen comments? Local kid physical and can score?

Good enough for me.

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All I'm saying is he's 18 and led a bunch of the countries best U20 players in scoring on the same ice in the same game against the same team.

Tiny sample, but what more can you ask of the kid so far? SHould he have scored 6 goals and had 6 assists in 2 games? Would that have pleased the unwaivering critics?

How many points did Dal Colle have? What if we had had him and not Virtanen, how much would this board be blowing up right now, with why didn't we take Virtanen comments? Local kid physical and can score?

no he should have led them in scoring, hits, takeaways, not allowed a shot against and had 100% offensive zone time since they are "only" cis players. ./end sarcasm.

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6 points in 6 periods against the CIS all-stars, it really isn't a big feat.

Offence is good and all but in key situations in a tournament with little to no room for error, he might not get deployed for those situations is what I'm saying. His decision making with the puck could be costly.

All i'm saying is that he's a high risk high reward player and in a tournament where risk can be an issue, he might not see the ice in key moments in 3rd periods.

Lol...unreal...

Edited by Canorth
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