Kanukfanatic Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Wow....this thread went side ways in a hurry lmao. What happened? DID HF INVADE??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, canuckistani said: Right now Baer is a far more valuable member of the team than Virtanen. That much, should be pretty clear and practically indisputable. Is that due to Baer scoring 9 times, hitting like a bull and making every player on the opposing team having a distraction every time he is on the ice? Perhaps it is Baer's speed? Is it Baer's being in top 10 in the league in hits per 60? Is it his great and emerging chemistry with Horvat? Which is it? What makes Baer so much more valuable? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Boudrias said: To many fans take the easy or obvious valuation process of a player by looking a ppg. A player like Jake with 35 - 40 points and an ability to play a heavy game will shine more in CUP play than other equivalent players with similar ppg. IMHO Benning has a pretty solid vision of the type of team he has to ice to have a serious CUP contender. Players like Jake and Gudbranson are key building blocks. Surprising in a Canadian hockey market that you would have to explain this to on a fan web site. It is so obvious how valuable a player like Virtanen is to a team and how key he will be once the Canucks are back in the playoffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, guntrix said: That's a dangerously -albeit expectedly- low bar you're setting for any draftee. Any draftee? We're talking about Jake Virtanen. The guy that you have incessantly hated on. The guy that you still haven't recognized as a complete NHL player. Who you within an hour ago made fun of the fact that I called a top 9 player, yet continues to put up top 6 numbers despite being played bottom 6 minutes. Your opinion is worthless. Go ahead and keep on driveling on though. It amuses me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Is that due to Baer scoring 9 times, hitting like a bull and making every player on the opposing team having a distraction every time he is on the ice? Perhaps it is Baer's speed? Is it Baer's being in top 10 in the league in hits per 60? Is it his great and emerging chemistry with Horvat? Which is it? What makes Baer so much more valuable? Being present in the top six more consistently, being more productive, being more of an integral part of the PP. All quantifiable and not style-based crap you are commenting about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Surprising in a Canadian hockey market that you would have to explain this to on a fan web site. It is so obvious how valuable a player like Virtanen is to a team and how key he will be once the Canucks are back in the playoffs. Key word,highlighted. Don't care about fantasies. What matters, is he is a fringe top six player right now. Rest, all pie in the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, canuckistani said: Being present in the top six more consistently, being more productive, being more of an integral part of the PP. All quantifiable and not style-based crap you are commenting about. You - are - hilarious! Seriously, consider giving up the day job. Pure gold! The Canucks have a 22 year old emerging power forward who is more than probably in the top 10 in the entire league in speed, one of the heaviest hitters in the game, is defensively responsible (habitually a "plus" player), has been in top 10 in hits/60 over past two years across entire league and is showing signs all the signs of being a well rounded 20ish goal guy who will be everything you want in a beast in a playoff atmosphere - at 22 freakin' years of age and you think he isn't valuable?! Seriously, can see it now. Headlining material. Six nights a week - twice on Sundays! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, canuckledraggin said: Any draftee? We're talking about Jake Virtanen. The guy that you have incessantly hated on. The guy that you still haven't recognized as a complete NHL player. Is he a complete NHL player? Please expand, I really want to hear this. 2 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said: Who you within an hour ago made fun of the fact that I called a top 9 player, yet continues to put up top 6 numbers despite being played bottom 6 minutes. 14 points in 32 games with PP time and playing time with EP and Horvat? I wouldn't be so sure. This could go either way. 6 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said: Your opinion is worthless. Go ahead and keep on driveling on though. It amuses me. Sincerely wonder why people on here get so insecure when their arguments are contested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, canuckistani said: Key word,highlighted. Don't care about fantasies. What matters, is he is a fringe top six player right now. Rest, all pie in the sky. Hard to display what you can do when your team isn't there but he is already the player you want there and will only continue to improve in spite of your vile, non-defendable position on him. If you are going to hate on a player, why pick such a young guy who is emerging in every facet - the potential to make your hate look just that is almost a certainty? Part of your comedic routine? Is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Hard to display what you can do when your team isn't there but he is already the player you want there and will only continue to improve in spite of your vile, non-defendable position on him. Nothing vile in spelling out the facts - that he is improving, but is NOT better than someone who is an automatic in the top six in the SAME team and since Jake does not kill penalties either, there is no empiric metric to consider him comparable to Baer. Neither as an important member of the team RIGHT NOW. I did say multiple times he is improving. 4 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: If you are going to hate on a player, why pick such a young guy who is emerging in every facet - the potential to make your hate look just that is almost a certainty? Part of your comedic routine? Is that it? I am not hating on him, i am simply pointing out that he is still far more in the 'future' category than 'present' category. Pardon me, but i don't put much stock in what-ifs. I've been involved with pro sports for too long to know how uncertain future for a professional athlete is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, canuckistani said: Nothing vile in spelling out the facts - that he is improving, but is NOT better than someone who is an automatic in the top six in the SAME team and since Jake does not kill penalties either, there is no empiric metric to consider him comparable to Baer. Neither as an important member of the team RIGHT NOW. I did say multiple times he is improving. I am not hating on him, i am simply pointing out that he is still far more in the 'future' category than 'present' category. Pardon me, but i don't put much stock in what-ifs. I've been involved with pro sports for too long to know how uncertain future for a professional athlete is. Just because they offer you another drink doesn't mean you have to take it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, guntrix said: Is he a complete NHL player? Please expand, I really want to hear this. 14 points in 32 games with PP time and playing time with EP and Horvat? I wouldn't be so sure. This could go either way. Sincerely wonder why people on here get so insecure when their arguments are contested. When there is a 50/50 puck he comes up with the puck more often than not. it's really not even close. His vision on the ice has improved. How you can debate this isn't a matter of fact. He is always the fastest skater on the ice. It makes up for any of his deficiencies. Why not just accept that he is a great player, instead of holding on to your hate for him as a draft pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Just because they offer you another drink doesn't mean you have to take it. Same goes for you and your subjective notion of what makes a better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, canuckledraggin said: When there is a 50/50 puck he comes up with the puck more often than not. it's really not even close. His vision on the ice has improved. How you can debate this isn't a matter of fact. He is always the fastest skater on the ice. It makes up for any of his deficiencies. Why not just accept that he is a great player, instead of holding on to your hate for him as a draft pick? Because some of us do not use the word 'great lightly. He is a marginal player as of now and by no means 'great'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, canuckistani said: Because some of us do not use the word 'great lightly. He is a marginal player as of now and by no means 'great'. good then. can I use the adverb very good your majesty? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 36 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said: Any draftee? We're talking about Jake Virtanen. The guy that you have incessantly hated on. The guy that you still haven't recognized as a complete NHL player. Who you within an hour ago made fun of the fact that I called a top 9 player, yet continues to put up top 6 numbers despite being played bottom 6 minutes. Your opinion is worthless. Go ahead and keep on driveling on though. It amuses me. 14 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said: When there is a 50/50 puck he comes up with the puck more often than not. it's really not even close. His vision on the ice has improved. How you can debate this isn't a matter of fact. He is always the fastest skater on the ice. It makes up for any of his deficiencies. Why not just accept that he is a great player, instead of holding on to your hate for him as a draft pick? So you basically contradicted yourself in the span of two consecutive posts, but judging from your weak reply, I'm guessing you already knew that. Great is a completely subjective term. You probably knew that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) Every NHL player has deficiencies. Mcdavid doesn't backcheck yet he's the best player on the planet. Try harder. Jake is right where he is supposed to be on a team that is up and coming. Why is it so hard for you to admit that you were wrong? 'he says knowing the answer' Edited December 11, 2018 by canuckledraggin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said: Every NHL player has deficiencies. Mcdavid doesn't backcheck yet he's the best player on the planet. Try harder. Jake is right where he is supposed to be on a team that is up and coming. Why is it so hard for you to admit that you were wrong? McDavid is McDavid. Jake is far from being a complete player, but if you want to keep tooting that horn, you go right ahead. It just further exemplifies the blatant homerism on this board. I'm sure you wouldn't see him in the same light if he were a flame. Wrong about what exactly? About Jake being the best pick at that spot? That's a hard no, no matter how much this forum wants to will itself to believe otherwise. Edited December 11, 2018 by guntrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) Have you watched any Canucks games this year? It's clear he's a different player. Aggressive, passing, shots on target and back checking are all improved from last season. Are you referring to Jake from this season or are you living in the past and pretending that players aren't capable of learning and coaching? Edited December 11, 2018 by canuckledraggin hehe Homerism :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gike Millis Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, guntrix said: McDavid is McDavid. Jake is far from being a complete player, but if you want to keep tooting that horn, you go right ahead. It just further exemplifies the blatant homerism on this board. I'm sure you wouldn't see him in the same light if he were a flame. Wrong about what exactly? About Jake being the best pick at that spot? That's a hard no, no matter how much this forum wants to will itself to believe otherwise. Jumping in. Hindsight, it was 4 years ago. He’s producing on a value contract. That’s a player you want on your team. The real debate is on a winning team in the playoffs, would you prefer Ehlers of Virtanen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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