Westcoasting Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 16 minutes ago, higgyfan said: You can call them whatever you want. Doesn't mean people agree with you. Their jerseys are hanging in the rafters and most fans have tremendous respect for them. You're entitled to your derogatory opinion, but don't expect much approval. On a more current and important matter...Jake Virtanen is having a career year. Looks like he has finally matured and is ready to work towards reaching his potential. Can't say I liked the pick, as I felt he didn't have the level of maturity to contend with being the hometown boy. He has been rushed, shamed (by fans and media) and hounded by his coach. I am really impressed that he has overcome the odds. Good on him. I really liked the pick at the time, i had him pegged as a player that M. Tkachuk turned into right away... ugh! But i really like the player he is right now and at a salary cap friendly deal. I thought a couple years ago he would eventually be traded away as like you i thought the pressure of hometown player might be too much for him. Watching his interviews now he seems very relaxed and in a happy state in his game. I'm not convinced he was too comfortable ever before this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 19 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said: Respected? How many other star players cross that line with them? Heck even patty Kane. People resect it cause it's something most players couldn't do , Cause few star players will cross that line cause they want to win at all cost and dont care about the other teams feelings.... A good punch in the mouth to Marchand might have made a difference at the time... or a crosscheck to the face, take the 5 minutes and go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbermen Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 17 hours ago, babych said: It’s still a weirdo thing to say. But I appreciate your explanation Why is it a 'weirdo' thing to say? Did hear what Seguin said or just acting triggered? You're ok with what Seguin said but offended by what i said? You're the weirdo. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Timbermen said: Why is it a 'weirdo' thing to say? Did hear what Seguin said or just acting triggered? You're ok with what Seguin said but offended by what i said? You're the weirdo. Well, I’m the President of the “WEIRDO” club, and you two have to go through the initiation to join. First ... you need a cat. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 22 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said: Okay this is old fashion but I respect guys that stand up for themselves once in awhile like Crosby ( I don't care for him ether but that would be different if he was a Canuck )if they played with his dirtiness I wouldnt say a word but they didn't. I was taught at a young age it's okay to take a beating for your team to win but there's a line , most players have it but the Sedins took it anyways. Also the whole team was getting bullied by Boston if one of them atleast tried to fight , that could have been the spark we needed to close out the final.... Forsberg has a CUP the Twins don't. In the case of the Twins the GM had to get players who would have defended them. It is fine to say that finesse and a PP will deter abuse but when a team is losing like Boston was they have no other options. They went heavy and Van didn't have an answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Boudrias said: Forsberg has a CUP the Twins don't. In the case of the Twins the GM had to get players who would have defended them. It is fine to say that finesse and a PP will deter abuse but when a team is losing like Boston was they have no other options. They went heavy and Van didn't have an answer. I love forsberg !! I have nothing against swedes if that's how you took it , my bad. I just look at a player like patty Kane and other skill players. The sedins loved the game and winning came second to were players like patty Kane and other skill players they would do anything to win like kes and juice did. Your right though Gillis failed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Toews Posted January 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Timbermen said: Why is it a 'weirdo' thing to say? Did hear what Seguin said or just acting triggered? You're ok with what Seguin said but offended by what i said? You're the weirdo. Revisionist history. Seguin wasn't the one that made homophobic comments, that was good old BC tough guy Jamie Benn. Also as far as I know there are no players in the NHL who have come out and admitted that they are LGBT. Considering the rampant homophobia in our society, I doubt anyone does anytime soon. I personally don't care what a player wants to do in his own time. If he wants to wear a pink toque, I won't look down upon him for it. Just show up at the rink to perform and I am good. Clearly that won't be enough for some fans though who will no doubt have their masculinity threatened by something another man chooses to do. Sad but true. 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biasbieksa Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) N 5 hours ago, Toews said: Revisionist history. Seguin wasn't the one that made homophobic comments, that was good old BC tough guy Jamie Benn. Also as far as I know there are no players in the NHL who have come out and admitted that they are LGBT. Considering the rampant homophobia in our society, I doubt anyone does anytime soon. I personally don't care what a player wants to do in his own time. If he wants to wear a pink toque, I won't look down upon him for it. Just show up at the rink to perform and I am good. Clearly that won't be enough for some fans though who will no doubt have their masculinity threatened by something another man chooses to do. Sad but true. So well said. Edited January 2, 2020 by Biasbieksa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 LGBT and Sedins are sisters talk. This is why I never visit this thread anymore lol. May as well chip in. Sedins were brought here to win us games. They did exactly that. Did they win the Stanley cup, no, but they sure as hell made it further than our tougher teams in the past. Lol @ the people saying the Sedins weren’t tough and don’t deserve respect because they didn’t fight or throw hits. There are several other aspects in the game that count towards toughness besides fighting and hits. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post komodo0921 Posted January 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2020 Here's to hoping Virtanen's second half is as good as his first half. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Jake is currently on pace for 25 goals 47 points... if he hits 50 points by the end of the year, does that finally legitimize his draft position? I think it has to, given who was available 6-10 that year. I don't think anyone had Larkin anywhere close to 6 that year. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 48MPHSlapShot Posted January 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2020 Fun fact: For as "terrible" a pick as Jake was, taken 2 players before him was Sam Bennett, the player taken right before Jake was Dal Colle, and the player taken right after Jake was Haydn Fleury. Point is that, considering how many busts there were that were initially projected to go right around where we were picking, we got off pretty good. 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogy Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Fun fact: For as "terrible" a pick as Jake was, taken 2 players before him was Sam Bennett, the player taken right before Jake was Dal Colle, and the player taken right after Jake was Haydn Fleury. Point is that, considering how many busts there were that were initially projected to go right around where we were picking, we got off pretty good. My biases: - I do not overvalue some of the Canucks prospects as many fans here do - Jake is a good kid but he has that frat boy demeanor to him My opinion: Jake was a good pick at the time of the draft. However, I do think J.B. would have selected a different player if he had available to him his current 2020 draft and management team in place. Jake was overvalued as many big 18 years old kids are in the sense that they were able to bully other players with their size in junior but they can no longer play that style in the NHL. As a result, It took Jake several years in the AHL and NHL to improve his defensive play and consistency. I do not recall anyone praising his D play and consistency during his draft year. Due to a somewhat average level of hockey IQ, Jake did not just "get it" the way Pettersson, Boeser and Hughes did. He had to rely on the slow and painful accumulation of years of AHL and NHL experience to learn to play the NHL system and play with his NHL teammates. The most important indicator for Jake's future is whether or not he is driven to continue to improve his game every single season. If he is his ceiling would likely be a second line winger on a good team. I am still not convinced of his ambition or drive despite of his improvement in the past 20 games because I am ignorant of how his personal life is going. Is he in a serious relationship? Is he looking to get married in the near future? Does he appreciate that now he needs to build a career to support his family. Has he turned that corner becoming a "man" rather than a boy mentally? It is not a coincidence that many of the leaders on our team are married or engaged. Full disclosure, I am against the institution of marriage. Edited January 2, 2020 by Maddogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post J-Dizzle Posted January 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 2, 2020 8 hours ago, The 5th Line said: You mean am I happy he's not just floating around aimlessly, looking like a deer in the headlights while giving minimal effort and making minimal impact, after showing up to camp out of shape for a 2nd straight year?Yeah I'm happy How much did your soul hurt while typing that overly passive aggressive compliment? 1 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, J-Dizzle said: How much did your soul hurt while typing that overly passive aggressive compliment? Trolls have souls? Who knew? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 All I know is that Shotgun has provided a steady flow of libation over an extended period. I am all ready for that to continue. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 6 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Fun fact: For as "terrible" a pick as Jake was, taken 2 players before him was Sam Bennett, the player taken right before Jake was Dal Colle, and the player taken right after Jake was Haydn Fleury. Point is that, considering how many busts there were that were initially projected to go right around where we were picking, we got off pretty good. I don’t know if I can call Bennett a bust. While Bennett might not be the high point producing player he was expected to be as flames highest ever draft pick, he has built himself out a valuable role in the NHL. Same with Jake even if he hadn’t started producing, I don’t think you could label him a bust as he would has still amounted to valuable bottom 6 NHL player. I think the word bust gets thrown around to easily, in my opinion at least a bust is a player with high expectations that either didn’t make the NHL at all or had a very short NHL impact. (Reinhart, Dal Colle, Filitov, Brendl). I have a really had time labeling anyone who plays over 500 career NHL games a “bust”. I think most players that get labelled bust are really just disappointing picks, or players that never amounted peaked to their forecasted value (Gudbrandson, Bennett, Murray, Johnson). If I had to rank picks I’d have 4 categories Bust Disappointment Meets expectations Exceeds expectations It terms of Jake, If you look at 11 players picked between 2006-2016 and use the average as the expectations, if Jake can become a consistent 50 point player few next years I think I would bump him up to meet expectations and really that’s all you can ask from a GM. Tkachuk, Zacha, Virtanen. Monahan, Lindholm, Zibanejad, Connolly, OEL, Filitov, Gagner, Brassard 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said: I don’t know if I can call Bennett a bust. While Bennett might not be the high point producing player he was expected to be as flames highest ever draft pick, he has built himself out a valuable role in the NHL. Same with Jake even if he hadn’t started producing, I don’t think you could label him a bust as he would has still amounted to valuable bottom 6 NHL player. I think the word bust gets thrown around to easily, in my opinion at least a bust is a player with high expectations that either didn’t make the NHL at all or had a very short NHL impact. (Reinhart, Dal Colle, Filitov, Brendl). I have a really had time labeling anyone who plays over 500 career NHL games a “bust”. I think most players that get labelled bust are really just disappointing picks, or players that never amounted peaked to their forecasted value (Gudbrandson, Bennett, Murray, Johnson). If I had to rank picks I’d have 4 categories Bust Disappointment Meets expectations Exceeds expectations It terms of Jake, If you look at 11 players picked between 2006-2016 and use the average as the expectations, if Jake can become a consistent 50 point player few next years I think I would bump him up to meet expectations and really that’s all you can ask from a GM. Tkachuk, Zacha, Virtanen. Monahan, Lindholm, Zibanejad, Connolly, OEL, Filitov, Gagner, Brassard That's a fair point. I suppose anyone that makes the big leagues really can't be considered a bust. I certainly wouldn't consider someone like Raffi Torres a bust, despite him not living up to his draft potential. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 37 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said: Trolls have souls? Who knew? I’m a ginger... I don’t know a whole lot about souls 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Maddogy said: My biases: - I do not overvalue some of the Canucks prospects as many fans here do - Jake is a good kid but he has that frat boy demeanor to him My opinion: Jake was a good pick at the time of the draft. However, I do think J.B. would have selected a different player if he had available to him his current 2020 draft and management team in place. Jake was overvalued as many big 18 years old kids are in the sense that they were able to bully other players with their size in junior but they can no longer play that style in the NHL. As a result, It took Jake several years in the AHL and NHL to improve his defensive play and consistency. I do not recall anyone praising his D play and consistency during his draft year. Due to a somewhat average level of hockey IQ, Jake did not just "get it" the way Pettersson, Boeser and Hughes did. He had to rely on the slow and painful accumulation of years of AHL and NHL experience to learn to play the NHL system and play with his NHL teammates. The most important indicator for Jake's future is whether or not he is driven to continue to improve his game every single season. If he is his ceiling would likely be a second line winger on a good team. I am still not convinced of his ambition or drive despite of his improvement in the past 20 games because I am ignorant of how his personal life is going. Is he in a serious relationship? Is he looking to get married in the near future? Does he appreciate that now he needs to build a career to support his family. Has he turned that corner becoming a "man" rather than a boy mentally? It is not a coincidence that many of the leaders on our team are married or engaged. Full disclosure, I am against the institution of marriage. The fact is, he doesn't actually need to continue to improve any further to get to second line level. Keeping in mind that there are 31 NHL teams, times 3 positions per line, meaning that there are 93 first line positions, another 93 second line positions, etc: Jakes current goal production (12) has him tied for 78th among NHL forwards, while his projected goal production (25) would have placed him tied for 72nd last season. This is already low 1st line level. Jakes current point production (23) has him tied for 120th among NHL forwards, while his projected point production (47) would have placed him tied for 108th last season. This is high second line level. And of course, just looking at his stats ignores the facts that he is faster, more physical and more defensively responsible than average. IMO, stating that he needs to continue to improve every year to eventually become second line level, when, by any reasonable measure he is already there, is unrealistic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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