Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[JeremyCuddles]

23 minutes ago, stawns said:

I don't hate Boeser in any way, I think he's a good offensive player.  I absolutely think he gets a free pass though and I'm not sure why.

Misunderstood the post

Edited July 27, 2020 by N7Nucks

[Moose Nuckle]

4 hours ago, Yung1 said:

you have the biggest crush on jake. it's cute.

Nice, you're a homophobe, very classy bud. 

 

My condolences to those on your teams that went through any sort of hazing. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Moose Nuckle

[kloubek]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

I absolutely think he gets a free pass though and I'm not sure why.

Have you not been reading why?

 

Injuries. 

Mental difficulties.

 

The best Brock is to come. You may see him these playoffs.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, kloubek said:

Have you not been reading why?

 

Injuries. 

Mental difficulties.

 

The best Brock is to come. You may see him these playoffs.

That's my point.  People excuse Boeser's declining numbers, but chastise Virtanen's steady improvement.  

 

I sure hope there's better to come.

[stawns]

3 hours ago, shayster007 said:

I understand where you're coming from, and I think it still comes down to expectations. Boeser is expected to score goals and sometimes those are hard to come by wether due to bad luck, or injuries. I agree that on paper he has been trending the wrong way, but I personally believe that his back injury hurt him more then we know. I had a very similar injury playing sports about 3 years ago, and my back has never been the same. I work in physical/sports rehab and had all the recourses I needed and I still feel the effects of that injury daily. That's not even mentioning his wrist. 

 

Jake on the other hand is expected to play fast and hard. Something that he should be able to do night in and night out with proper effort (everyone has down nights though). I disagree with the notion he is a bad 2way player, I think he is actually generally solid in that regard. I also believe his trajectory has been going up, instead of down. This last year Jake finally looked like he was starting to understand the game.

 

I'm a huge Jake fan, likely one of the bigger Jake fanboys around these parts. But it's important to knowledge when he's struggling due to a perceived lack of effort. That seems to be Greens biggest pet peeve, and Jake is frequently being calling out on it. That is something that's controllable, while sometimes scoring droughts simply aren't as controllable.

 

The problem with comparing the 2, is they are not comparables. They are completely different players, and should be judged accordingly. I don't feel draft position should be part of the discussion, but unfortunately that also plays a part when people criticise Virt.

It's just Green being Green.  It's right out of his Virtanen handbook

[stawns]

3 hours ago, shayster007 said:

I understand where you're coming from, and I think it still comes down to expectations. Boeser is expected to score goals and sometimes those are hard to come by wether due to bad luck, or injuries. I agree that on paper he has been trending the wrong way, but I personally believe that his back injury hurt him more then we know. I had a very similar injury playing sports about 3 years ago, and my back has never been the same. I work in physical/sports rehab and had all the recourses I needed and I still feel the effects of that injury daily. That's not even mentioning his wrist. 

 

Jake on the other hand is expected to play fast and hard. Something that he should be able to do night in and night out with proper effort (everyone has down nights though). I disagree with the notion he is a bad 2way player, I think he is actually generally solid in that regard. I also believe his trajectory has been going up, instead of down. This last year Jake finally looked like he was starting to understand the game.

 

I'm a huge Jake fan, likely one of the bigger Jake fanboys around these parts. But it's important to knowledge when he's struggling due to a perceived lack of effort. That seems to be Greens biggest pet peeve, and Jake is frequently being calling out on it. That is something that's controllable, while sometimes scoring droughts simply aren't as controllable.

 

The problem with comparing the 2, is they are not comparables. They are completely different players, and should be judged accordingly. I don't feel draft position should be part of the discussion, but unfortunately that also plays a part when people criticise Virt.

I don't think they should be compared to each other as players either.

 

I'm not sure how Jake got labelled as a poor two way player, but he's not.  He's a good forechecker, he's one of the best takeaway players on the team (one of the few with more takeaways than giveaways), he's 4th on the team with hits (102) behind Miller, Motte and Edler, has 18 goals and 18 assists and he is 20th in avg icetime/60mins.  I'd argue he's one of the higher value players on the team in the context of making the most out of what he's given.  

 

edit: sorry, 17th in avg toi/60 mins

Edited July 27, 2020 by stawns

[MeanSeanBean]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

I don't think they should be compared to each other as players either.

 

I'm not sure how Jake got labelled as a poor two way player, but he's not.  He's a good forechecker, he's one of the best takeaway players on the team (one of the few with more takeaways than giveaways), he's 4th on the team with hits (102) behind Miller, Motte and Edler, has 18 goals and 18 assists and he is 20th in avg icetime/60mins.  I'd argue he's one of the higher value players on the team in the context of making the most out of what he's given.  

I completely agree. I'm a big fan of how Green has handled Jake. I can't tell off your previous quote if you are or not.

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

I completely agree. I'm a big fan of how Green has handled Jake. I can't tell off your previous quote if you are or not.

I am and I'm not.  I think he knows how to use the stick, but he's got to start rewarding him or he's going to lose him, imo.

[MeanSeanBean]

Just now, stawns said:

I am and I'm not.  I think he knows how to use the stick, but he's got to start rewarding him or he's going to lose him, imo.

You know what, I agree again. There was a couple times this year I was really hoping he would give the nod to Virt a couple more times a game. He had some really solid runs this season.

[Smashian Kassian]

If this was Boeser's worst year, it was still far better than Jake's best. They aren't the same tier of player. Brock was apart of one of the best lines in hockey the first half of the year, Jake isn't a consistent top 6 forward. 

 

Would anyone feel confident with Jake getting a multi year deal at 4M+? Maybe he'd be the piece used to help free up cap room. 

 

 

[Rush17]

9 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

If this was Boeser's worst year, it was still far better than Jake's best. They aren't the same tier of player. Brock was apart of one of the best lines in hockey the first half of the year, Jake isn't a consistent top 6 forward. 

 

Would anyone feel confident with Jake getting a multi year deal at 4M+? Maybe he'd be the piece used to help free up cap room. 

 

 

If Podkolzin and/or Hoglander are able to come over before next years playoffs. We can probably afford to move Jake for a right handed defender.  I would love to move him to CGY for a kid like Rasmus Andersson, but with Hamonic possibly leaving that may not be the ideal fit. Perhaps a team out east would be the better fit so he doesn't torch us as often lol. Even a central team would be better than a pacific rival. Send him over to ARZ and they can take him to the central the season after next. 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Rush17

[Rush17]

I wonder if part of Jake's problem is he takes this situation for granted. There has been so much narrative surrounding him being like Neely and if the Canucks ever traded him.. I wonder if that thought of us being scared to move him makes him feel safe. Because honestly he looks like he feels way to safe. Perhaps an attitude adjustment ie sit him for a few games or the series if we are winning it well enough. That might spark something in him. He seems to do just enough to meet expectations but he seems to lack the internal drive to be the best version of himself. I am a huge believer in Jake but his maturation process seems to be taking longer than others. We have endured this much though.. will he get it by next season? I don't think the org will wait to much longer if he doesn't shape up.

[Smashian Kassian]

31 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

If Podkolzin and/or Hoglander are able to come over before next years playoffs. We can probably afford to move Jake for a right handed defender.  I would love to move him to CGY for a kid like Rasmus Andersson, but with Hamonic possibly leaving that may not be the ideal fit. Perhaps a team out east would be the better fit so he doesn't torch us as often lol. Even a central team would be better than a pacific rival. Send him over to ARZ and they can take him to the central the season after next. 

 

 

I wonder what his value would be coming off a big year like he just had. Or if he can have another one. Maybe you could attach Sutter to him & still get something back depending on the team.

[stawns]

42 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

I wonder if part of Jake's problem is he takes this situation for granted. There has been so much narrative surrounding him being like Neely and if the Canucks ever traded him.. I wonder if that thought of us being scared to move him makes him feel safe. Because honestly he looks like he feels way to safe. Perhaps an attitude adjustment ie sit him for a few games or the series if we are winning it well enough. That might spark something in him. He seems to do just enough to meet expectations but he seems to lack the internal drive to be the best version of himself. I am a huge believer in Jake but his maturation process seems to be taking longer than others. We have endured this much though.. will he get it by next season? I don't think the org will wait to much longer if he doesn't shape up.

The problem is the fans and media's.  James done nothing but progress every year

[Rush17]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

The problem is the fans and media's.  James done nothing but progress every year

I agree he continues to progress. My concern is will they accept his lack of dedication and aloof personality in the dressing room long term? He is going to eventually become a role model for the next generation of kids. I'd hate for Lind to pick up his bad habits. I guess we are probably safe from that though as Jim has focused on drafting high character and competitive kids. Jake still comes to camp like its a retreat. We weeded out Hutton, Etem, and Goldobin because of their lack of edge or determination. Jake is the last of that bunch. 

 

I like Jake and remain a supporter but I am coming around to the idea of moving him if we can find the right package. I would package him with Stecher's rights if a team is willing to pay his 3M arb rights. Which I honestly think is pretty fair for Stech but we just can't afford it due to some inflated bottom 6 contracts. Eriksson was supposed to be a top 6 guy that own guy vs Calgary instantly started his quick decline lol. Willie D not playing him with the twins regularly didn't help.

[dpn1]

Green has done a good job with Jake.  He is just revving Jake up and getting him for game one.   Go  Go.

[stawns]

7 hours ago, Rush17 said:

I agree he continues to progress. My concern is will they accept his lack of dedication and aloof personality in the dressing room long term? He is going to eventually become a role model for the next generation of kids. I'd hate for Lind to pick up his bad habits. I guess we are probably safe from that though as Jim has focused on drafting high character and competitive kids. Jake still comes to camp like its a retreat. We weeded out Hutton, Etem, and Goldobin because of their lack of edge or determination. Jake is the last of that bunch. 

 

I like Jake and remain a supporter but I am coming around to the idea of moving him if we can find the right package. I would package him with Stecher's rights if a team is willing to pay his 3M arb rights. Which I honestly think is pretty fair for Stech but we just can't afford it due to some inflated bottom 6 contracts. Eriksson was supposed to be a top 6 guy that own guy vs Calgary instantly started his quick decline lol. Willie D not playing him with the twins regularly didn't help.

And you know all of this how?

[Moose Nuckle]

7 hours ago, stawns said:

The problem is the fans and media's.  James done nothing but progress every year

[Moose Nuckle]

27 minutes ago, stawns said:

And you know all of this how?

Look out, Yung might start throwing homophobic insults at you for not trashing our own players. 

[aGENT]

10 hours ago, stawns said:

I am and I'm not.  I think he knows how to use the stick, but he's got to start rewarding him or he's going to lose him, imo.

 

10 hours ago, shayster007 said:

You know what, I agree again. There was a couple times this year I was really hoping he would give the nod to Virt a couple more times a game. He had some really solid runs this season.

He did get a pretty juicy, organic, heirloom carrot of top 6 time with Pettersson when playing well this season (as well as pp time). If Jake wants more 'carrot', he needs to stop largely only responding to 'stick' and take some added initiative and be more consistent and committed. Committed and hard working Jake gets fresh picked, organic heirloom carrots all day long. Immature, inconsistent Jake gets the stick.

 

As for this 'Boeser gets a pass' nonsense. Struggling because of injuries and family health issues is always going to get more of a 'pass' from fans, team mates and coaches than struggling because of a lack of commitment. Boeser may have struggled at points but his commitment and 'try' weren't ever in question. I'm not sure how that's remotely a mystery.

 

8 hours ago, Rush17 said:

Send him over to ARZ and they can take him to the central the season after next. 

 

Jake package for Soderstrom you say? Yes please!

 

Unfortunately, with Chayka now gone, that's unlikely to happen