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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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On 7/28/2020 at 8:09 PM, Mad Jon said:

No, but I have observed his act and I don’t like it. 

Ive met Jake a few times. Im not a super fan of his as a player, but as a person, he's a nice guy. Very accomodating, got a picture taken with him with a good attitude and asked me if I was watching the game tonight etc, joked that he was gonna score a hatty or a gordie that night. You'd be suprised how players are off the ice when you meet them. Im a fan of Naslund as a player but when I met him, he wasn't very personable

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18 minutes ago, filthycanuck said:

Ive met Jake a few times. Im not a super fan of his as a player, but as a person, he's a nice guy. Very accomodating, got a picture taken with him with a good attitude and asked me if I was watching the game tonight etc, joked that he was gonna score a hatty or a gordie that night. You'd be suprised how players are off the ice when you meet them. Im a fan of Naslund as a player but when I met him, he wasn't very personable

I think it really depends on the player and their personality. 

 

Näslund always struck me as an introvert, not really liking to be around the public, media, etc. 

 

Näslund and Virtanen are soooo different from each other in almost every way :P 

 

But yeah, I hear ya. The players on the ice sometimes doesn't reflect who they are when they're off it. 

 

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On 7/29/2020 at 12:20 AM, kloubek said:

So did Goldobin. That got us nowhere. Sometimes, the player just doesn't get it.

 

I hope he is left off the opening roster, and I hope it pisses him off. So much so that his inner child rage rises up with a big "I'll show you, Mr. Meany Greeny" and he goes on a Calgary-era Ferland-esque tear.

Unlike Goldobin, however, Virtanen has shown steady albeit slow, progress. 

 

Felt like Goldy just stagnated, and never really improved enough relative to the roster. The team accumulated more and more talent, and it just pressed Goldy out of the line up, even if he did "progress" - it nearly wasn't enough for Green to have him in the line up. He was still very much a defensive liability. Nice kid, unfortunately didn't make the cut at the NHL level. But who knows? He's kinda still young, and by the time his KHL contract is up, he'd be around 26 years old. Maybe he gets it at that time, and he's a classic story of a late bloomer. 

 

I think Green's handling Jake the right way. Light a fire under him, and get him to play a simple, north-south game and do what he does best. Skate hard and skate fast, make plays when he's got the chance to do that, and be defensively responsible. The goals will come (as it did this season when he was on pace for about 20 goals, and 40 points). 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Moose Nuckle said:

Lol I'm just trying to progress the conversation. Virtanen will have to wait till next season for potential top 6.

Yep, Ottawa or Detroit would probably give him a look there.... or whatever team he is on next season that isn’t the Canucks.

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4 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Unlike Goldobin, however, Virtanen has shown steady albeit slow, progress. 

 

I think just using the overall season totals hides a lot of the reality as far as Jake’s progression goes.  It hasn’t been slow and steady, it has been a roller coaster.

 

He has improved point totals year over year, but he has also been wildly inconsistent within each of those years.  None more so than this past season.

 

For the first third of the season he was no better than he has been in past years.  Basically a .25-.33 PPG player... which is a 20-30 point pace over a season.  Not like great for a guy who gets PP time.

 

The middle third he played amazingly and gave a taste of what he has the potential to be.  He was almost a PPG player over about 6 weeks which is by far his longest stretch of solid play in his career.  It coincided with Roussel coming back onto his line, and they kind of hit a groove.  Jake played exactly like the coach has been publicly imploring him to for years.  He used his size and speed to rush the puck into the zone and drove to the net.  A simple and effective formula.  More often than not, this resulted in him or one of his line mates popping in a greasy goal off a rebound.  He even made some passes and showed some playmaking that had never been part of his arsenal.

 

The final third of the season he was on an atrociously bad pace that was below his career average.  He went back to his old habits of rushing up the ice and either over skating the puck, or letting the opposing D angle him off where he ended up just circling behind their net and then coughing up the puck with a bad pass.  

 

So it is a real conundrum.  Is there a chance he can regularly be that Jake we saw for 6 weeks?  Or is he the Jake we have seen for the other 4 years of his career?

 

Some folks still hope for the best, more seem to be betting that he just is what he is.  Him sitting in the press box last night while we were able to even dress an extra forward doesn’t instill any confidence, even if it ends up just being a motivational ploy by Green and Jake will really be in the lineup for the Minnesota series.  In his 5th year he shouldn’t have to be taught those lessons still.

 

Just like you talked about Goldobin being pushed out of the lineup because of the team getting better, that seems to be the trajectory for Virtanen as well.  He is fighting with Ferland, and MacEwan for a bottom 6 winger spot, and a couple months into next season when the KHL is done, he will be fighting Podkolzin as well... with Hoglander also in the mix (several of the guys play both sides so they are all fighting for 2-3 open winger spots).  
 

If we sign Toffoli, I don’t see any way Virtanen is on our team next year.  There is neither the roster spot or cap space to carry him.  If Toffoli doesn’t sign here, then I still see Virtanen swapped next season for a D that a team would otherwise lose in the expansion draft.  There are just too many bodies fighting for his spot in the lineup and most of them will be at a much cheaper cap hit.

 

If Jake doesn’t play in these playoffs... I despair about what any potential trade value he would have.

 

 

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79005B6E-285E-4234-9FD6-95AF6BB172F0.thumb.jpeg.9c1f844c051cb47e790f0d5140a26334.jpeg.jpg.7a6a3fb6f8cbfd85b68927d6970341eb.jpg

 

"Dam, maybe those guys are the worst crew ever.  I really need get my sh!t together, I am running out of chances with this team."

 

Luckily for him there were a couple of bottom sixers that did not look any good.  I can't see Virtanen being benched for Macewen but if that happens, yikes.

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19 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

79005B6E-285E-4234-9FD6-95AF6BB172F0.thumb.jpeg.9c1f844c051cb47e790f0d5140a26334.jpeg.jpg.7a6a3fb6f8cbfd85b68927d6970341eb.jpg

 

"Dam, maybe those guys are the worst crew ever.  I really need get my sh!t together, I am running out of chances with this team."

 

Luckily for him there were a couple of bottom sixers that did not look any good.  I can't see Virtanen being benched for Macewen but if that happens, yikes.

Well assuming we are injury free after last night, he has to beat out THREE of MacEwan, Ferland, Sutter, and Eriksson to get onto the roster.  Five guys, two spots.  

 

Macewan was really the extra 13th forward we were allowed to carry last game and if nothing else changed, even he would be on the outside looking in when we are only allowed to dress 12 forwards on Sunday. 
 

You are right and none of the bottom six looked particularly good last night... so that does open a window to slot in Jake, but it means sitting one of Ferland and Sutter instead .   One of them may bring  something to the table that Green might want more than a little extra offence from the 3rd line.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Provost said:

Yep, Ottawa or Detroit would probably give him a look there.... or whatever team he is on next season that isn’t the Canucks.

Did the big win last might without him in the lineup make you feel that way?

 

MacEwan was terrible last night. Turnover after turnover, wild shots that missed and resulted in sending the jets back our way. He also got absolutely rocked because he didn't know what he was doing. 

 

I still think he has a future but man did the Jets expose how green he still is. 

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4 minutes ago, Provost said:

Well assuming we are injury free after last night, he has to beat out THREE of MacEwan, Ferland, Sutter, and Eriksson to get onto the roster.  Five guys, two spots.  

 

Macewan was really the extra 13th forward we were allowed to carry last game and if nothing else changed, even he would be on the outside looking in when we are only allowed to dress 12 forwards on Sunday. 
 

You are right and none of the bottom six looked particularly good last night... so that does open a window to slot in Jake, but it means sitting one of Ferland and Sutter instead .   One of them may bring  something to the table that Green might want more than a little extra offence from the 3rd line.

 

 

Sutter was terrible last night, they have him to kill penalties and he takes a lazy one in the offensive zone. Motte, Beagle, Horvat, Rousell and Pearson can kill penalties and Virtanen can replace the speed and 40 points from the third line they were so glaringly missing last night.

The Jets are an example of outcoaching Green. They had beat the Canucks 10 times in a row before last nights game and 14 of the last 15. I think it's because Maurice is a smarter coach, i hope i'm wrong and it's just one of those hockey things. Some teams just match up well against others.

That being said, i see why he likes Sutter in the lineup. Veteran that gives you a 5th centre man incase of injury. Kills penalties and is a good face-off man but if you're going to bench Virtanen for being rusty while Sutter had that showing and  the entire team looked bad, he should get back in the lineup but the only spot is Sutter's. I wouldn't scratch anyone else so to me, the spots up for grabs between Tuna,MacEwen and Sutter.

Which one of them gives the Canucks a better chance to win? Be honest, One was on pace for 20 goals 20 assists from the third line (13 minutes a game average ice time) with little PP time and the other had 7 goals 9 assists in just under 50 games. Yet Sutter was always a PP option before Virtanen. Sutter is a good penalty killer but not when he's taking bad penalties 200 feet from his own goal.

I like MacEwen and want him to be a regular next season. I'd iike to see him in the playoffs but i'm not sure it makes sense scratching Virtanen unless he came into camp out of shape which didn't seem to be the case in the few scrimmage clips on twitter. He was getting breakaways and putting up points.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Timbermen said:

Sutter was terrible last night, they have him to kill penalties and he takes a lazy one in the offensive zone. Motte, Beagle, Horvat, Rousell and Pearson can kill penalties and Virtanen can replace the speed and 40 points from the third line they were so glaringly missing last night.

The Jets are an example of outcoaching Green. They had beat the Canucks 10 times in a row before last nights game and 14 of the last 15. I think it's because Maurice is a smarter coach, i hope i'm wrong and it's just one of those hockey things. Some teams just match up well against others.

That being said, i see why he likes Sutter in the lineup. Veteran that gives you a 5th centre man incase of injury. Kills penalties and is a good face-off man but if you're going to bench Virtanen for being rusty while Sutter had that showing and  the entire team looked bad, he should get back in the lineup but the only spot is Sutter's. I wouldn't scratch anyone else so to me, the spots up for grabs between Tuna,MacEwen and Sutter.

Which one of them gives the Canucks a better chance to win? Be honest, One was on pace for 20 goals 20 assists from the third line (13 minutes a game average ice time) with little PP time and the other had 7 goals 9 assists in just under 50 games. Yet Sutter was always a PP option before Virtanen. Sutter is a good penalty killer but not when he's taking bad penalties 200 feet from his own goal.

I like MacEwen and want him to be a regular next season. I'd iike to see him in the playoffs but i'm not sure it makes sense scratching Virtanen unless he came into camp out of shape which didn't seem to be the case in the few scrimmage clips on twitter. He was getting breakaways and putting up points.

 

 

.... or Green knows more about coaching and how the players were prepared

and performing in camp than we do?

 

The other bottom six playing terribly does not mean Virtanen would have been, or is a better option.   The alternative narrative of him just being worse than them is equally if not more plausible, and the coaches picked the team with the greatest chance of winning.

 

I have said all along that Virtanen probably gets into the lineup for game 1 (though I had pretty much counted Ferrand out in that calculation) just that he would have a short leash.

 

We have 5 games, and we don’t have the long runway of training camp,  exhibition games, and the first month or so of the season  it took for Virtanen to finally catch up and start performing last season. 

 

I guess I just trust the coaching staff who got career years out of a bunch of the guys on the team more than you do.

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1 hour ago, Timbermen said:

Sutter was terrible last night, they have him to kill penalties and he takes a lazy one in the offensive zone. Motte, Beagle, Horvat, Rousell and Pearson can kill penalties and Virtanen can replace the speed and 40 points from the third line they were so glaringly missing last night.

The Jets are an example of outcoaching Green. They had beat the Canucks 10 times in a row before last nights game and 14 of the last 15. I think it's because Maurice is a smarter coach, i hope i'm wrong and it's just one of those hockey things. Some teams just match up well against others.

That being said, i see why he likes Sutter in the lineup. Veteran that gives you a 5th centre man incase of injury. Kills penalties and is a good face-off man but if you're going to bench Virtanen for being rusty while Sutter had that showing and  the entire team looked bad, he should get back in the lineup but the only spot is Sutter's. I wouldn't scratch anyone else so to me, the spots up for grabs between Tuna,MacEwen and Sutter.

Which one of them gives the Canucks a better chance to win? Be honest, One was on pace for 20 goals 20 assists from the third line (13 minutes a game average ice time) with little PP time and the other had 7 goals 9 assists in just under 50 games. Yet Sutter was always a PP option before Virtanen. Sutter is a good penalty killer but not when he's taking bad penalties 200 feet from his own goal.

I like MacEwen and want him to be a regular next season. I'd iike to see him in the playoffs but i'm not sure it makes sense scratching Virtanen unless he came into camp out of shape which didn't seem to be the case in the few scrimmage clips on twitter. He was getting breakaways and putting up points.

 

 

I don't believe record in a small sample size spread out over years is necessarily indicative of who is the better coach, Maurice has more experience than Green but I haven't been blown away by what he has done while coaching the Jets. He's had some pretty good teams and yet I can only remember them underachieving in the playoffs. Now I am not particularly impressed by Green either, while I am not on the 'Fire Green' train, I do have him on short leash. We don't have 9 forwards better than Virtanen, let alone 13. Green going back to his AHL days has a propensity to stick with the plugs who can make the safe play over the players with the talent to actually impact the game. I can't deny I was irked when i saw that Jake was scratched. If it is a matter of fitness then I have no issue with it, team culture takes precedence over everything else. But if Green really believed that the lineup that he iced gave us the best chance to win then he maybe the problem and Benning had better start scouring for solutions.

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On 7/28/2020 at 11:34 AM, Moose Nuckle said:

People losing their minds over something not going their way and people losing there minds over a differing opinion. 

 

Doesnt seem that outrageous to say the two might be related.

 

I never said it was you, unless "us" means the people in Van because it did happen.

 

Stating facts doesnt discredit me. It may hurt feelings but I didn't point at anyone and say you did it.

 

Stereotyping and me saying they burned their city down isnt the same. Someone did burn the city down. People who couldn't handle a loss. They.

 

Rather than mob mentality attacking a person/city with a result you dont like, or a different opinion, people should learn to listen/react without flying off handles. 

 

I am happy to say I dont agree with the people who burnt down Van and I wont try to hide them or protect them.

Who flew off the handle?  

 

And many who rioted cared little about the game and had pre-planned it.  Had nothing to do with "handling a loss" or not so please stay on topic.

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3 hours ago, Provost said:

.... or Green knows more about coaching and how the players were prepared

and performing in camp than we do?

 

The other bottom six playing terribly does not mean Virtanen would have been, or is a better option.   The alternative narrative of him just being worse than them is equally if not more plausible, and the coaches picked the team with the greatest chance of winning.

 

I have said all along that Virtanen probably gets into the lineup for game 1 (though I had pretty much counted Ferrand out in that calculation) just that he would have a short leash.

 

We have 5 games, and we don’t have the long runway of training camp,  exhibition games, and the first month or so of the season  it took for Virtanen to finally catch up and start performing last season. 

 

I guess I just trust the coaching staff who got career years out of a bunch of the guys on the team more than you do.

Sutter was absolute trash last game, can't even keep up and the player that shows up and pulls his groin every training camp because he shows up out of shape. 

MacEwen is going to be good but he's not quite there yet and Sutter was trash last night so Virtanen is by far the best option. It's a no brainer. 

 

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34 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Who flew off the handle?  

 

And many who rioted cared little about the game and had pre-planned it.  Had nothing to do with "handling a loss" or not so please stay on topic.

Ditto, this has been settled already. I was referring to the people stalking me and calling me names for a week on here.

 

Excited to see Jake. 

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Running out of chances Jake...

 

This guy may be one of the more physically gifted players on this team / NHL but lacks the maturity and dedication to becoming an everyday NHL player. It's too bad that he is wasting his talent away.

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Very discouraging Jake was benched. Makes you wonder if some things happened behind the scenes you don't know about. 

Honestly though, Sutter doesn't look like himself. I would sit him and play Jake. That's not knowing what Green does.

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43 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said:

Very discouraging Jake was benched. Makes you wonder if some things happened behind the scenes you don't know about. 

Honestly though, Sutter doesn't look like himself. I would sit him and play Jake. That's not knowing what Green does.

I think they need to play Jake and yes, Sutter might be the obvious to sit. I really hope that sitting in the only exhibition game, might be a wake up call for Jake. He really needs to buckle down and focus on hockey, even when they aren't playing hockey.

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47 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I think they need to play Jake and yes, Sutter might be the obvious to sit. I really hope that sitting in the only exhibition game, might be a wake up call for Jake. He really needs to buckle down and focus on hockey, even when they aren't playing hockey.

I didn't get to see the whole game but if Sutter is truly looking like he lost a step, then that might indeed be how Jake returns to the line-up.  As much as I like MacEwen, I personally think it will be hard for Green to play him over Jake if they end up sitting Sutter, particularly against the Wild.  The Wild are a big strong team but with good speed as well.  MacEwen has decent speed for a big guy but Jake has great speed and, despite having defensive lapses, has been pointed out as a player who can be very effectively defensively using his speed and body 5 on 5.  If both Beagle and Sutter have slowed down, then between the two I would expect Beagle to stay in the line-up and we could see a 4th line of Motte-Beagle-Virtanen.  The main problem for Jake is that he has not been trusted for PK, but if that's the main issue for inserting him rather than MacEwen if Sutter sits, then I don't see why MacEwen would be trusted much more than Jake in that role.

 

Jake scored 18 goals this year and was having a solid season.  He's frustrating to watch because he has all the tools to be a great player but just hasn't put it all together for long stretches.  This was the first season where we saw very good play from him for a decent stretch of time, and when he's on his game, he's perfect for the playoffs.

 

If coaching staff ends up going with Sutter or MacEwen then, to me at least, that seems a bit harsh to Jake.  I get why they may feel the need to do that and Jake should not be taking anything for granted.  Hopefully this fires him up in practice and gets him playing time because if Jake is fired up and on his game, I honestly think he will be the best option to help the team win between Sutter or MacEwen (at least right now).

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11 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I didn't get to see the whole game but if Sutter is truly looking like he lost a step, then that might indeed be how Jake returns to the line-up.  As much as I like MacEwen, I personally think it will be hard for Green to play him over Jake if they end up sitting Sutter, particularly against the Wild.  The Wild are a big strong team but with good speed as well.  MacEwen has decent speed for a big guy but Jake has great speed and, despite having defensive lapses, has been pointed out as a player who can be very effectively defensively using his speed and body 5 on 5.  If both Beagle and Sutter have slowed down, then between the two I would expect Beagle to stay in the line-up and we could see a 4th line of Motte-Beagle-Virtanen.  The main problem for Jake is that he has not been trusted for PK, but if that's the main issue for inserting him rather than MacEwen if Sutter sits, then I don't see why MacEwen would be trusted much more than Jake in that role.

 

Jake scored 18 goals this year and was having a solid season.  He's frustrating to watch because he has all the tools to be a great player but just hasn't put it all together for long stretches.  This was the first season where we saw very good play from him for a decent stretch of time, and when he's on his game, he's perfect for the playoffs.

 

If coaching staff ends up going with Sutter or MacEwen then, to me at least, that seems a bit harsh to Jake.  I get why they may feel the need to do that and Jake should not be taking anything for granted.  Hopefully this fires him up in practice and gets him playing time because if Jake is fired up and on his game, I honestly think he will be the best option to help the team win between Sutter or MacEwen (at least right now).

They're not leaving Jake out of the lineup, I think that was pretty clear last night.  Sutter looks like he might be injured, Roussel, aside from a goal, was completely ineffective, Mac isn't a full time NHL player yet and Motte was pretty much onvisible.  In the bottom 6, the only noticeable players were Beagle, Ferland and Gaud and Gaud needs to be sheltered defensively.

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