Law of Goalies Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: If he was playing with any type of consistency, I'd agree with you. He has the capability, just lacks a 200 foot game and only really good offensively if he's in top 6. Put him on the 3rd line and he's ineffective. That's like saying if you put BB6 or Petey on the 3/4th line or for similar big men, i.e. Bertuzzi, Pastranak, Tkachuk on the 3rd/4th lines, they will most likely be ineffective too (although Petey might be the exception thou, haha). I am not trying to compare Jake to anyone of the aforementioned players but I am just trying to say that some players are offensive players and only play better when given an offensive role. Although his body is fit for a 3/4th line role, it doesn't mean he has to play on that line. However, if he is put on the top 6 and doesn't even produce, then you can say we have a problem. However, he has played decent from being on the 1st line all to way to the 4th line while being better on the first two lines. Edited September 19, 2020 by Law of Goalies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 https://medium.com/@pahulgill0/a-closer-look-at-jake-virtanens-numbers-in-2019-20-27f209dc2a23 An in depth look at Jake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung1 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 PSA: Come to terms with the fact that we are going to be getting rid of Virtanen this season and he will go on to have a 30 goal season. Be at peace with the fact that he didn't have the mental maturity to accomplish this in his hometown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Law of Goalies said: That's like saying if you put BB6 or Petey on the 3/4th line or for similar big men, i.e. Bertuzzi, Pastranak, Tkachuk on the 3rd/4th lines, they will most likely be ineffective too (although Petey might be the exception thou, haha). I am not trying to compare Jake to anyone of the aforementioned players but I am just trying to say that some players are offensive players and only play better when given an offensive role. Although his body is fit for a 3/4th line role, it doesn't mean he has to play on that line. However, if he is put on the top 6 and doesn't even produce, then you can say we have a problem. However, he has played decent from being on the 1st line all to way to the 4th line while being better on the first two lines. If you put a fire hydrant with Petey,it probably scores 20 goals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 I've been frustrated by Jake's play for years, but it's still a scary thought trading him and him going on to really do something with another team. It's like he's on the cusp on becoming that player. He's not expensive, they need to get rid of Eriksson, Sutter and Roussel more so than Jake. I wonder about his attitude, coming to camps out of shape. Do his team mates really like him? I know that if I've been busting my butt training for the upcoming season and the young local star shows up unprepared, and then gets caught at a night club during the pandemic, I'd be pretty pi**ed. But still, he has that skill set. Canucks are caught between a rock and a hard place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirston Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 I agree it’s a bit scary trading him but it’s not a Neely situation, back then it was easy to make a mistake because of lack of secondary coaching and development but today it’s not like u are gonna just get a gem in the rough. It obviously happens here and there but I believe JV has had his chance and it’s time to part ways. If he can turn it around it will not be with Vancouver so good riddance you lazy sack of ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 11 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: If you put a fire hydrant with Petey,it probably scores 20 goals... Hoglander? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 11 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: If you put a fire hydrant with Petey,it probably scores 20 goals... For minimum NHL wage, I will stand it front of the net and screen, take the abuse. let EP bounce pucks off me and i can backcheck better than a hydrant, (I might not appear to be moving any faster than a hydrant next to a NHL player though) but when i get 20 goals i get a good raise, and take the hometown discount too 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 13 hours ago, aGENT said: Hoglander? Palmu? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/19/2020 at 9:56 AM, gurn said: https://medium.com/@pahulgill0/a-closer-look-at-jake-virtanens-numbers-in-2019-20-27f209dc2a23 An in depth look at Jake. Wow, great info Gurn. Thanks for the post. Maybe Jake is not as bad as some have stated (ad nauseum). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I think we are all still frustrated by a guy who can skate faster than 90% of the league, built like a tank, has a great shot, grew up a Canucks fan, and seems like a decent guy, but disappears for entire games. He also has his off ice stupidity once in a while. We all want him to be as great as he seems like he could be. I think, sadly, he just isn't smart. I think that's the real problem. He doesn't catch on quickly and is still confused on many nights what they want from him. He does dumb stuff off the ice and seems dumb on it. This year he seemed better than ever, but still clueless on many nights. I don't think Benning is actively trying to trade him though. If he was he wouldn't have bad mouthed him publicly. I think he was trying to get him cheaper. After all, he's dumb but his set of skills is hard to come by and he's closer than he's been. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, dpn1 said: Wow, great info Gurn. Thanks for the post. Maybe Jake is not as bad as some have stated (ad nauseum). It isn’t really “great info”, any more than random posts here are. It is someone who self published their own article. It is full of “adjusted” and cherry picked numbers to make a predetermined argument. He pulled the numbers into what looks to be Minitab and then did all his own “adjustments” to make a case. Statistics aren’t intended to be used this way at all. You use them as a guide to give clues and then follow up where they lead. You don’t come up with an answer and then massage numbers and just pick ones that support your argument... that is just bad math and leads you down the wrong paths. When he was on that heater in the middle of the season, I looked at the numbers and said they appeared to just be a statistical blip. I said that he would have to continue that level of production through the end of the season and into the next one before it could be even remotely reliable. I was roundly mocked and criticized for saying the odds were still that he would regress to his norm in the later part of the season. He did regress, but even below his career numbers. Fully 1/4 of Jake’s points came on the PP but it includes those points yet then gives only 5 on 5 teammates and stats. If you are eliminating power play in his ice time/linemates you have to eliminate those points as well... or include them on both sides. It also just uses season averages which hides what happened within the season. What happened in reality is Jake had 6 weeks of elite play where he was close to a PPG. He had terrible numbers before and after that.... where he was at or below his career average. So the team and fans rightly are concerned that he is the player he has shown to be for 5 years and not the player he was for a few weeks. Odds favour the former especially if you add in the off ice stuff and being unprepared for two training camps in one season. The bet would be to try to exact value from him from a tram that sees the 18 goals, his draft position, and his size. Edited September 22, 2020 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Meh. He is what he is. A 3rd liner. If moving him is a means to improve the roster then so be it. We have superstars in EP and Huggy. I'm OK with losing JV if he ever becomes a 2nd line winger. I don't think he will be a 1st line winger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirston Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: I think we are all still frustrated by a guy who can skate faster than 90% of the league, built like a tank, has a great shot, grew up a Canucks fan, and seems like a decent guy, but disappears for entire games. He also has his off ice stupidity once in a while. We all want him to be as great as he seems like he could be. I think, sadly, he just isn't smart. I think that's the real problem. He doesn't catch on quickly and is still confused on many nights what they want from him. He does dumb stuff off the ice and seems dumb on it. This year he seemed better than ever, but still clueless on many nights. I don't think Benning is actively trying to trade him though. If he was he wouldn't have bad mouthed him publicly. I think he was trying to get him cheaper. After all, he's dumb but his set of skills is hard to come by and he's closer than he's been. Is he really built like a tank? I’m not saying that he isn’t but I’ve seen him close up at games and he just doesn’t look like the 230lb as claimed. Like when he’s next to other 230lb guys like reaves or others he looks much smaller. Again I could be totally off base here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Thirston said: Is he really built like a tank? I’m not saying that he isn’t but I’ve seen him close up at games and he just doesn’t look like the 230lb as claimed. Like when he’s next to other 230lb guys like reaves or others he looks much smaller. Again I could be totally off base here. I think his mass is more lower body, whereas those like Reaves have more upper body mass which looks bigger to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallAfterLife Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: I think we are all still frustrated by a guy who can skate faster than 90% of the league, built like a tank, has a great shot, grew up a Canucks fan, and seems like a decent guy, but disappears for entire games. He also has his off ice stupidity once in a while. We all want him to be as great as he seems like he could be. I think, sadly, he just isn't smart. I think that's the real problem. He doesn't catch on quickly and is still confused on many nights what they want from him. He does dumb stuff off the ice and seems dumb on it. This year he seemed better than ever, but still clueless on many nights. I don't think Benning is actively trying to trade him though. If he was he wouldn't have bad mouthed him publicly. I think he was trying to get him cheaper. After all, he's dumb but his set of skills is hard to come by and he's closer than he's been. I sort of want to see Jake get traded because it might actually present an opportunity for him to either sink or swim. Edited September 23, 2020 by CallAfterLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Virtanen can't be taken from this team. With 1395 pages of posts, it's clear that this board will have nothing to talk about if he departs. I've been a patient person hoping for JV to develop into a player that can utilize all of his skills and assets but I think it has become pretty clear that he lacks the intelligence and drive to become the player that he could be. Does that mean he should be on this team on the bottom 6 with top 6 cameos? Does this mean that he should be traded? All depends on his trade value and the contract negotiations. Lacking maturity and needing others to light your fire are not great qualities for a cup contender though. Hate to give up on him but the writing is on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nux4lyfe Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 I might be the minority but I'm not ready to let this dude go, Power forwards take time to achieve their full potential. Let the kid grow. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNucks1 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 11 hours ago, -AJ- said: I think his mass is more lower body, whereas those like Reaves have more upper body mass which looks bigger to us. also pretty sure his weights gone down alot when he was 230 was when he was overweight and looking chubby, like that one photo, sure you can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 42 minutes ago, TNucks1 said: also pretty sure his weights gone down alot when he was 230 was when he was overweight and looking chubby, like that one photo, sure you can find it. I think he's in the low 220s now more than 230-ish. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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