Boudrias Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 I doubt JB thinks he will get value by trading Virtanen. More likely he hangs onto him to see how he plays particularly if he gets serious time on the 2nd line. For Jake it is all about consistency and all that is required to achieve that. Vancouver has to have size and more physicality and Jake has that potential. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just checking to see if Jakes been traded yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Interesting article today in Canucks Army ..... https://canucksarmy.com/2020/10/14/jake-virtanen-time-top-line-better-used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 he's worth at least 2.5 million. no way you get a 20 goal scorer for less 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) On 10/9/2020 at 10:44 AM, VegasCanuck said: I would give Jake slightly more than Motte. Maybe a 1.5 million contract. On 10/9/2020 at 1:57 PM, VegasCanuck said: Virtanen has more overall production but takes whole games off. Motte doesn't take shifts off, is going full out, all the time. virtanen is a 20 goal scorer. who pots 20 and signs for 1.5 million?. motte was on pace for 9 goals Edited October 15, 2020 by Petey_BOI things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Petey_BOI said: virtanen is a 20 goal scorer. who pots 20 and signs for 1.5 million?. motte was on pace for 9 goals When Motte is in the lineup, we have a much better record. He's a more effective player and supresses opposition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 7 hours ago, Petey_BOI said: virtanen is a 20 goal scorer. who pots 20 and signs for 1.5 million?. motte was on pace for 9 goals Motte does more of everything else, with less. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 4 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: When Motte is in the lineup, we have a much better record. He's a more effective player and supresses opposition. Analytics aren't kind with Motte other than on the PK. Basic heat maps show that opposition are having a field day when he is on the ice. Will be interesting to see if his decent counting stats prove the models wrong or whether it was the Markstrom effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, mll said: Analytics aren't kind with Motte other than on the PK. Basic heat maps show that opposition are having a field day when he is on the ice. Will be interesting to see if his decent counting stats prove the models wrong or whether it was the Markstrom effect. Can't find the article now, but there was a statistic a number of months ago showing that we had something like 30% better winning record when Motte was in the lineup vs when he was out with injury. Its not his production scoring goals, its that he frustrates opposition forwards and that he's incredibly hard to play against. Jake is capable of being hard to play against, have seen him do it, but, really inconsistently. If Jake shows up for 80% of the games that he plays, he's a 5 million per season player. He's incredibly effective when he decides to be, and I love watching him play when he decides to show up. Motte has untapped scoring potential, which we saw a little of in the playoffs. Jake just spends too much time floating and not really engaging. REALLY hope that changes and that he can be a lifetime Canuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: When Motte is in the lineup, we have a much better record. He's a more effective player and supresses opposition. 5 hours ago, aGENT said: Motte does more of everything else, with less. i like motte, i think hes a good player. but the question still remains who scores 20 goals and earns 1.5 million,last i checked goals are worth more than defensive awareness. Edited October 15, 2020 by Petey_BOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: i like motte, i think hes a good player. but the question still remains who scores 20 goals and earns 1.5 million,last i checked goals are worth more than defensive awareness. There's been a few players who teams have walked away from because of defensive lapses. Brandon Pirri for one. He scored 22 goals for FL, summer of 2016, FL didn't even qualify him. I don't think Jake is a bad player, I just think that he takes too many games off and has too many mental lapses in the defensive zone. I don't know if its pregame preparation or just lazy. He has all the capability to be a consistent top 6 guy in this league. I think he's the only one that's holding him back. No one will be happier than me, if he shows up next season, completely ready to play. Edited October 15, 2020 by VegasCanuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: There's been a few players who teams have walked away from because of defensive lapses. Brandon Pirri for one. He scored 22 goals for FL, summer of 2016, FL didn't even qualify him. I don't think Jake is a bad player, I just think that he takes too many games off and has too many mental lapses in the defensive zone. I don't know if its pregame preparation or just lazy. He has all the capability to be a consistent top 6 guy in this league. I think he's the only one that's holding him back. No one will be happier than me, if he shows up next season, completely ready to play. so, there is many things wrong with your post. first off the year he was traded to anaheim in 2016. 2 he scored 22 goals and 2 assists in 2014/2015 he scored just 13 goals and 28 points. jake is not only better offensively but also better defensively, his giveaway/takeaway stats is much higher which mean he is controlling the play way more. basically all brandon pirri was good for was a shot. way to choose a player thats not even close to jakes level, dirty play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: Can't find the article now, but there was a statistic a number of months ago showing that we had something like 30% better winning record when Motte was in the lineup vs when he was out with injury. Its not his production scoring goals, its that he frustrates opposition forwards and that he's incredibly hard to play against. Jake is capable of being hard to play against, have seen him do it, but, really inconsistently. If Jake shows up for 80% of the games that he plays, he's a 5 million per season player. He's incredibly effective when he decides to be, and I love watching him play when he decides to show up. Motte has untapped scoring potential, which we saw a little of in the playoffs. Jake just spends too much time floating and not really engaging. REALLY hope that changes and that he can be a lifetime Canuck in the playoffs motte was started in the o zone more than not hence his inflated points.in fact jake was used in a more defensive role than motte. we only controlled the puck 27 percent of the time motte was out on the ice, compared to 50 percent for jake. he was played more than jake and i dont know why. motte was on the ice for 6 gf and 14 ga, while jake was on the ice with 7 gf and 4 goals against. even gaudette had better numbers than motte. we basically got out coached in the playoffs not mottes fault. but fact remains motte is not a good a player as jake, advanced stats show it Edited October 15, 2020 by Petey_BOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: so, there is many things wrong with your post. first off the year he was traded to anaheim in 2016. 2 he scored 22 goals and 2 assists in 2014/2015 he scored just 13 goals and 28 points. jake is not only better offensively but also better defensively, his giveaway/takeaway stats is much higher which mean he is controlling the play way more. basically all brandon pirri was good for was a shot. way to choose a player thats not even close to jakes level, dirty play. You are correct that it was Anaheim who chose not to qualify Pirri, but my point still is, its not all about offense. Players in the NHL have to be able to take care of their own zone or teams won't keep them. Again, I firmly believe that Jake has ALL the capability to be a solid and effective NHL player. The problem I have is, he has 1 or 2 really good games and then you hardly notice him doing anything positive for 4 or 5 games. His production comes when he's partnered with guys like Pettersson. A player with Virtanen's core capability, speed, size and shot, should be able to be put out there on any line in a pinch and instantly make that line better and create scoring threats just with his speed and ability to use that speed to create turnovers. Unless he's playing with Pettersson, I rarely see that Jake, show up to play consistently, and his current contract reflects that. With his capability, and being drafted where he was, at 24 years old, we should be arguing right now whether his new contract should be 4.5 million or 5.5 million, not whether he's worth qualifying or if he's even worth 3 million. I don't doubt his capability, only his consistency on and off the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: in the playoffs motte was started in the o zone more than not hence his inflated points.in fact jake was used in a more defensive role than motte, but fact remains motte is not a good a player as jake, advanced stats show it Jake has some of the best breakaway speed in the NHL, We all saw it more than a year ago, when he pulled away from McDavid. THAT is the Jake I want to see more of. The one who will use his size, his speed and strength to make everyone around him better and make the other team, constantly worrying when he's on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: in the playoffs motte was started in the o zone more than not hence his inflated points.in fact jake was used in a more defensive role than motte, but fact remains motte is not a good a player as jake, advanced stats show it THIS is the Virtanen I want to see more of: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldoescobar Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 $5x5M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said: $5x5M? arbitration will likely award him 3 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 40 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: arbitration will likely award him 3 million More likely he and the team will sign a deal for a couple of years at 2.5M/year before it gets to arbitration. And I don't think there is any significant chance that the team will sign him and immediately dump him for whatever scraps they can get, as some posters suggest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law of Goalies Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, WeneedLumme said: More likely he and the team will sign a deal for a couple of years at 2.5M/year before it gets to arbitration. And I don't think there is any significant chance that the team will sign him and immediately dump him for whatever scraps they can get, as some posters suggest. Yup and after dumping him for a bag of pucks, quickly sign a 20 g scorer for under 1.5 mil for 10 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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