Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[-AJ-]

2 hours ago, RWMc1 said:

Some opinions about Jake have been stated as unequivocal outcomes. If they're wrong, they're wrong. It's like saying that 7x7 is 51. And when you find out that the answer is 49 you say' I'm glad that math person proved me wrong."

 

Why not just own it?  I thought I was right, I was wrong. Notice the past tense.

I would say "I was wrong" is equivalent to "he proved me wrong", but I suppose we're splitting hairs here.

[John_Guest]

The team needs that last quality winger in the top six. If Jake is it the team's chances rise to the point Vegas is going to have to rewrite their odds. Considerable.

 

If Jake doesn't recognize his responsibility and grasp the opportunity this time though...if he comes to camp fat again - that's it for me. I have no more respect for the guy.

 

Trade him for a bag of pucks.

[King Heffy]

 

3 minutes ago, John_Guest said:

The team needs that last quality winger in the top six. If Jake is it the team's chances rise to the point Vegas is going to have to rewrite their odds. Considerable.

 

If Jake doesn't recognize his responsibility and grasp the opportunity this time though...if he comes to camp fat again - that's it for me. I have no more respect for the guy.

 

Trade him for a bag of pucks.

Exactly.  This is his best chance ever to make the top six and earn some real money.  I've been in favour of patience with him but it's time for him to **** or get off the pot.  No excuse for him to not come to camp in the best shape of his life.

[Lancaster]

20 hours ago, RWMc1 said:

I think there's going to be a lot of people with the cowardly "I'm glad he proved me wrong" response instead of just admitting they were wrong about him.

 

If he stinks, I'll admit I was wrong. I doubt it though. I think he's looking forward to finally being a regular in the top 6 and will step right in and run with it.

I'm a huge critic of JV.  

 

Unless he's putting up some huge amount of points, it has always been about his intensity level on the ice, not whether he's got the hands or how many goals he's scoring.  Virtanen was brought in to be a physical force... if the Canucks really wanted someone to put him points, they could have easily draft Nylander or Ehler.... players that put up loads of points, but as soft as "I Can't Believe It's not Butter" margarine.  

 

I'd rather Jake plays like a 06 or 11 Raffi Torres than a player puts up 30+ goals but skates slowly on line changes, looks like a deer in the headlights on defense, or choosing to do a fly-by instead of finishing his check.  

[Ballisticsports.]

13 hours ago, Lancaster said:

I'm a huge critic of JV.  

 

Unless he's putting up some huge amount of points, it has always been about his intensity level on the ice, not whether he's got the hands or how many goals he's scoring.  Virtanen was brought in to be a physical force... if the Canucks really wanted someone to put him points, they could have easily draft Nylander or Ehler.... players that put up loads of points, but as soft as "I Can't Believe It's not Butter" margarine.  

 

I'd rather Jake plays like a 06 or 11 Raffi Torres than a player puts up 30+ goals but skates slowly on line changes, looks like a deer in the headlights on defense, or choosing to do a fly-by instead of finishing his check.  

I think this could be a break out year for Jake, if he has been  training as reported and looking like he is taking his career serious .

One of the knocks is that he's not very good at predicting breakouts or seeing developing plays as to why he has trouble staying in the top 6. If he takes another step in his offense and gets a bit better defensively, that may be enough. Problem is that his time is running out with other prospects willing to do what they can to earn his spot. Whether that happens or not is up to him right now (for this year at least)

 

I too believe that they wanted an "abrasive" player over a "soft" skilled player when he was drafted

Jake was drafted 6th overall and has 24 players from his draft year out scoring him (i think i saw somewhere) despite not spending much time in the minors

If he plays like Tuch was in the playoffs and never ends up 8th overall in scoring in his draft year, I think the Canucks and fans would be pleased

Jake has heard Benning 2x after the playoffs, and when resigning  mentioning Tuch as the player they want him to be, and his disappointment in Jake getting it. He doesn't need to be a fighter, just use his speed to forecheck, backcheck, force errors, drive to the net and be a menace out there and use all the tools in his box,  His speed, size, and shot. Wouldn't that be a nice Christmas present for his team and fans

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by ba;;isticsports

[WeneedLumme]

5 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I think this could be a break out year for Jake, if he has been  training as reported and looking like he is taking his career serious .

One of the knocks is that he's not very good at predicting breakouts or seeing developing plays as to why he has trouble staying in the top 6. If he takes another step in his offense and gets a bit better defensively, that may be enough. Problem is that his time is running out with other prospects willing to do what they can to earn his spot. Whether that happens or not is up to him right now (for this year at least)

 

I too believe that they wanted an "abrasive" player over a "soft" skilled player when he was drafted

Jake was drafted 6th overall and has 24 players from his draft year out scoring him (i think i saw somewhere) despite not spending much time in the minors

If he plays like Tuch was in the playoffs and never ends up 8th overall in scoring in his draft year, I think the Canucks and fans would be pleased

Jake has heard Benning 2x after the playoffs, and when resigning  mentioning Tuch as the player they want him to be, and his disappointment in Jake getting it. He doesn't need to be a fighter, just use his speed to forecheck, backcheck, force errors, drive to the net and be a menace out there and use all the tools in his box,  His speed, size, and shot. Wouldn't that be a nice Christmas present for his team and fans

 

Jake's production last year was solid second line production, and was 11th in goals and 15th in points among his (very successful) draft class. I suspect that he is as abrasive as his coach allows him to be. He has improved every year and I have no reason to believe that next season will be any different.

 

To state that "his time is running out" when he has already developed to the point where he produces at a second line level from third line icetime and is still improving, is silly IMO.

[John_Guest]

The Canucks need somebody to replace Toffolli this year. If Jake can do it, 'rah rah', I'm a fan.

If he can't then Benning needs to find somebody who can, and if it's a trade I'd be on board if they included Virtanen in it.

[Ballisticsports.]

8 minutes ago, John_Guest said:

The Canucks need somebody to replace Toffolli this year. If Jake can do it, 'rah rah', I'm a fan.

If he can't then Benning needs to find somebody who can, and if it's a trade I'd be on board if they included Virtanen in it.

Merry Christmas John Guest

My thinking he is a NHL player for sure, but he is not an untouchable, playing the way he has up until now, and if he does not grab the biscuit, one of the up and comers who are cheaper and want to be professional will. The opportunity was there last year for him ,as Toffolli never arrived till the end.

 

It sounds like he may be approaching this season differently though

. I am not sure they would trade him for another RW (as they had TT wanting to stay and leave on a decent wage - people would be saying the new RW then cost Madden, a pick and Virtanen and ? to get a new RW). If the prospects play as projected there are only so many RW spots avail with different responsibilities and expectations on each line, Someone could be made available in a trade to strengthen Defence though.

I am excited to see how they perform and who steps up.

How can players not be inspired to see what EP and Hughes have done in their 1st years and try to improve themselves?

[John_Guest]

Merry Christmas to you, ba;;isticsports

 

Of all the off-season losses letting Toffoli go baffled me. I can't help thinking they could have found way to keep him. I remember Benning saying they needed somebody like him to fill the weak spot up front long before they got him. He did seem to fill a hole.

 

Whatever though, I guess the money wasn't there or something. Now they need to fill that top 6, right wing spot again though.

 

The imaginary trade I projected as one I'd get behind if Jake can't fill the gap this season would be one where they found somebody who could fill it but that team still needed somebody perhaps slightly cheaper as a possible replacement. Or maybe they have somebody they can move up to the top 6 but they need a right winger like Jake on the third line. Something like that.

 

But yeah filling the weak spot on defence if Jake comes to camp tubby again and is slow out of the gate, sure, why not. That would work too.

 

Others seem to think Jake is coming to camp this year with a Greek God type body, Gretzky model hockey sense and Tyler Motte style fire in his belly though, so this all just conjecture if they're wrong.

Edited December 25, 2020 by John_Guest

[JeremyCuddles]

23 hours ago, Lancaster said:

I'm a huge critic of JV.  

 

Unless he's putting up some huge amount of points, it has always been about his intensity level on the ice, not whether he's got the hands or how many goals he's scoring.  Virtanen was brought in to be a physical force... if the Canucks really wanted someone to put him points, they could have easily draft Nylander or Ehler.... players that put up loads of points, but as soft as "I Can't Believe It's not Butter" margarine.  

 

I'd rather Jake plays like a 06 or 11 Raffi Torres than a player puts up 30+ goals but skates slowly on line changes, looks like a deer in the headlights on defense, or choosing to do a fly-by instead of finishing his check.  

Bolded I feel like was a fan thing more than anything. The thing that made Virtanen appealing over the others was he could shoot and he had some physical aspects things that we really lacked at the time (also being a home town kid may have played a role). Nylander and Ehlers lean more towards playmakers. Not specifically that he was supposed to be a "physical force." His physicality was always a bonus aspect to his toolbox. For me at least. I love him for his speed and goal scoring prowess. Being able to chuck his weight around was always a bonus. Not the main part of who he is as a player. 

[UFCanuck]

People still harp on the fact that we passed on Gallagher. Canucks picked a local kid this time and people are upset. 

 

[King Heffy]

4 hours ago, John_Guest said:

Of all the off-season losses letting Toffoli go baffled me. I can't help thinking they could have found way to keep him. I remember Benning saying they needed somebody like him to fill the weak spot up front long before they got him. He did seem to fill a hole.

Keeping him would mean subtracting Schmidt from the defense without adding a suitable replacement.

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, John_Guest said:

Merry Christmas to you, ba;;isticsports

 

Of all the off-season losses letting Toffoli go baffled me.

Barring trading Boeser.  As noodles & oodles speculated.  The sauce of asset management...

 

Toffoli was just a rental.  We were headed to the play off's. Boeser got injured? It threatened to derail our season. Then Covid, all sense of timing went out. Play in started, what, 4 months later? Boeser was back. Boeser is the better scorer, the better long term asset. Toffoli the harder working more polished play off style player for a run.   

 

Benning just wanted a play off opportunity for this years team.

 

Ironic that it was Toffoli who missed most of it?

 

 

 

And of course we still have Boeser, then Jake on topic, Pearson with Podkolzin as a succession plan, Ferland still in the mix and Zach MacEwen as depth.  With our RW depth, Miller also can play there even if LW/C are his strong suit, Tofu was expendable. 

 

Tofu was the easiest of guys to let go of IMO.

[wildcam]

On December 24, 2020 at 1:35 AM, King Heffy said:

 

Exactly.  This is his best chance ever to make the top six and earn some real money.  I've been in favour of patience with him but it's time for him to **** or get off the pot.  No excuse for him to not come to camp in the best shape of his life.

New Jake Virtanen will turn some heads....24 years old, 6'1, 215 lbs with new focus..

[John_Guest]

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Toffoli was just a rental..

Was he though? Was that the plan?

 

There was a lot of talk about the need for a scoring winger before they grabbed Toffoli. For example here's the first line of a post from the proposals thread, from November 2019:

Quote

I know this has been beaten to death; a call for a skilled winger for either Petersson, or Horvat to play with.

Before that in April of 2019 sportswriter Patrick Johnston was saying:

 

Quote

The Vancouver Canucks scored 219 goals in 2018-19, which landed them in a tie for sixth worst in the NHL.

To be a playoff team, one thing is clear: they must score more goals.

https://o.canada.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/patrick-johnston-canucks-must-score-more-goals-how-do-they-do-it/wcm/5b102fc3-744b-4728-9f67-a755924a71b3

 

In December Ian McIntyre told us Jim Benning was looking to improve by filling a particular need:

 

Quote

Through 31 games, Vancouver Canucks general manager Jim Benning likes what he has seen. But he’ll like his team even more if he can acquire another top-six winger before the NHL’s trade deadline in February.

Benning confirmed Wednesday in an interview with Sportsnet that he is looking for another winger who can score if a deal “makes sense.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jim-benning-still-looking-top-six-forward-bolster-canucks-roster/

 

In the interview below Jim and Travis are being questioned in April of 2019 about their low scoring season Travis is talking about the improvements he expects in his top six. He leaves one out. It's the second line right winger. Apparently he wasn't expecting that improvement to come from within.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcyHdSNsax8&feature=emb_logo

 

So were all of them and everybody just talking about a need for scoring from that position for just the 2020 playoffs next season, or were they talking about a hole that needed to be filled as a more permanent team need?

 

At the time I remember thinking they were looking for a player like Toffoli when they found Toffoli. Shall I check the Toffoli trade thread to see if I was the only one?

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by John_Guest

[Canuck Surfer]

Just now, John_Guest said:

Was he though?

Yes he was.

 

We had a succession plan.  Did we  need him this year...  Or at the deadline anyway, Yes.

 

Only if we dumped Eriksson's salary ongoing.

 

Even  then Shattenkirk or similar as offense from the blue line. 

[John_Guest]

So everybody including Jim and Travis who were thinking of finding a scorer to play with Bo and Pearson were just wanting him for the playoffs the following season?

Are you sure? Because to me it would make more sense that they were hoping to keep him, at least until they were secure in the knowledge they had a better choice from within.

 

It was a need they wanted to fill. 

 

Still is unless Jake or somebody coming up shows they can fill it. 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, John_Guest said:

So everybody including Jim and Travis who were thinking of finding a scorer to play with Bo and Pearson were just wanting him for the playoffs the following season?

Are you sure? Because to me it would make more sense that they were hoping to keep him, at least until they were secure in the knowledge they had a better choice from within.

 

It was a need they wanted to fill. 

 

Still is unless Jake or somebody coming up shows they can fill it. 

I think they got giddy.  Maybe hoped a salary cap raise might rescue them? At least give them an option?

 

was it a need? Sure.  

 

Did media jump in? Throw in their 2 sense...  Maybe get the fan base wound up?  Sure also

 

Replacing Taner & Marky ultimately became a more importantt need. That’s absolute. It’s what went down.

 

At least for now.

[John_Guest]

Think about this though. They had a need. There was a gap. They filled it. For whatever reasons they couldn't maintain that fix.

 

Imagine you're right about what you said earlier though about Jake coming up to fill the gap, Podkolzin coming in soon, and prospects like MacEwan waiting for an opportunity. 

 

So Jake comes into this coming season like Bertuzzi 2.0. Podkolzin enters at the end of the season and nobody can stop him. MacEwan is playing like the second coming of Burrows. And there are prospects on the right wing ready to move up from the minors.

 

At that point imagine we could have hung on to Toffoli. We'd be coming into the TDL. Think we could have made a deal to strengthen RHD and still have a strong top six at that point? 

[-DLC-]