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4 hours ago, John_Guest said:

Of all the off-season losses letting Toffoli go baffled me. I can't help thinking they could have found way to keep him. I remember Benning saying they needed somebody like him to fill the weak spot up front long before they got him. He did seem to fill a hole.

Keeping him would mean subtracting Schmidt from the defense without adding a suitable replacement.

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On December 24, 2020 at 1:35 AM, King Heffy said:

 

Exactly.  This is his best chance ever to make the top six and earn some real money.  I've been in favour of patience with him but it's time for him to **** or get off the pot.  No excuse for him to not come to camp in the best shape of his life.

New Jake Virtanen will turn some heads....24 years old, 6'1, 215 lbs with new focus..

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6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Toffoli was just a rental..

Was he though? Was that the plan?

 

There was a lot of talk about the need for a scoring winger before they grabbed Toffoli. For example here's the first line of a post from the proposals thread, from November 2019:

Quote

I know this has been beaten to death; a call for a skilled winger for either Petersson, or Horvat to play with.

Before that in April of 2019 sportswriter Patrick Johnston was saying:

 

Quote

The Vancouver Canucks scored 219 goals in 2018-19, which landed them in a tie for sixth worst in the NHL.

To be a playoff team, one thing is clear: they must score more goals.

https://o.canada.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/patrick-johnston-canucks-must-score-more-goals-how-do-they-do-it/wcm/5b102fc3-744b-4728-9f67-a755924a71b3

 

In December Ian McIntyre told us Jim Benning was looking to improve by filling a particular need:

 

Quote

Through 31 games, Vancouver Canucks general manager Jim Benning likes what he has seen. But he’ll like his team even more if he can acquire another top-six winger before the NHL’s trade deadline in February.

Benning confirmed Wednesday in an interview with Sportsnet that he is looking for another winger who can score if a deal “makes sense.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jim-benning-still-looking-top-six-forward-bolster-canucks-roster/

 

In the interview below Jim and Travis are being questioned in April of 2019 about their low scoring season Travis is talking about the improvements he expects in his top six. He leaves one out. It's the second line right winger. Apparently he wasn't expecting that improvement to come from within.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcyHdSNsax8&feature=emb_logo

 

So were all of them and everybody just talking about a need for scoring from that position for just the 2020 playoffs next season, or were they talking about a hole that needed to be filled as a more permanent team need?

 

At the time I remember thinking they were looking for a player like Toffoli when they found Toffoli. Shall I check the Toffoli trade thread to see if I was the only one?

 

Edited by John_Guest
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Just now, John_Guest said:

Was he though?

Yes he was.

 

We had a succession plan.  Did we  need him this year...  Or at the deadline anyway, Yes.

 

Only if we dumped Eriksson's salary ongoing.

 

Even  then Shattenkirk or similar as offense from the blue line. 

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So everybody including Jim and Travis who were thinking of finding a scorer to play with Bo and Pearson were just wanting him for the playoffs the following season?

Are you sure? Because to me it would make more sense that they were hoping to keep him, at least until they were secure in the knowledge they had a better choice from within.

 

It was a need they wanted to fill. 

 

Still is unless Jake or somebody coming up shows they can fill it. 

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3 hours ago, John_Guest said:

So everybody including Jim and Travis who were thinking of finding a scorer to play with Bo and Pearson were just wanting him for the playoffs the following season?

Are you sure? Because to me it would make more sense that they were hoping to keep him, at least until they were secure in the knowledge they had a better choice from within.

 

It was a need they wanted to fill. 

 

Still is unless Jake or somebody coming up shows they can fill it. 

I think they got giddy.  Maybe hoped a salary cap raise might rescue them? At least give them an option?

 

was it a need? Sure.  

 

Did media jump in? Throw in their 2 sense...  Maybe get the fan base wound up?  Sure also

 

Replacing Taner & Marky ultimately became a more importantt need. That’s absolute. It’s what went down.

 

At least for now.

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Think about this though. They had a need. There was a gap. They filled it. For whatever reasons they couldn't maintain that fix.

 

Imagine you're right about what you said earlier though about Jake coming up to fill the gap, Podkolzin coming in soon, and prospects like MacEwan waiting for an opportunity. 

 

So Jake comes into this coming season like Bertuzzi 2.0. Podkolzin enters at the end of the season and nobody can stop him. MacEwan is playing like the second coming of Burrows. And there are prospects on the right wing ready to move up from the minors.

 

At that point imagine we could have hung on to Toffoli. We'd be coming into the TDL. Think we could have made a deal to strengthen RHD and still have a strong top six at that point? 

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14 hours ago, John_Guest said:

So everybody including Jim and Travis who were thinking of finding a scorer to play with Bo and Pearson were just wanting him for the playoffs the following season?

Are you sure? Because to me it would make more sense that they were hoping to keep him, at least until they were secure in the knowledge they had a better choice from within.

 

It was a need they wanted to fill. 

 

Still is unless Jake or somebody coming up shows they can fill it. 

I agree with you, They wanted to keep TT and stated they wanted a player like him before BB got injured

 

I also think it was inexcusable to be up against the cap, while being at the bottom 6 of the league for so many years, with a payroll of a Top 6 team

How can you improve on your Top 6 and D with so much tied up in a Bottom 6?

I believe Management and Ownership lost their patience and jumped the gun a year too early a few years ago. They could have got character cheaper  vets  on shorter contracts and received the same results as the expensive, name, longer term, vets, until they wanted to play their Drafted players

 

The team would have had to face the consequences of their negligent spending eventually (Why i was never excited about any of those signings), the flat cap didn't help, however, the flat cap isn't causing the issues. It's only amplifying them. The Canucks have nobody to blame but themselves though. I was not a fan of past signings but am with the recent ones (most likely no money to spend now, with the 'I got to have that' attitude, when money was available) 

We lost TT with a recent decent cap hit because of past overindulgence, hopefully those days are behind us, as it is the Top 6 and D  we need cash for

  I think we will be ok, I just don't think we are as good as we could be right now

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I agree with you, They wanted to keep TT and stated they wanted a player like him before BB got injured

 

I also think it was inexcusable to be up against the cap, while being at the bottom 6 of the league for so many years, with a payroll of a Top 6 team

How can you improve on your Top 6 and D with so much tied up in a Bottom 6?

I believe Management and Ownership lost their patience and jumped the gun a year too early a few years ago. They could have got character cheaper  vets  on shorter contracts and received the same results as the expensive, name, longer term, vets, until they wanted to play their Drafted players

 

The team would have had to face the consequences of their negligent spending eventually (Why i was never excited about any of those signings), the flat cap didn't help, however, the flat cap isn't causing the issues. It's only amplifying them. The Canucks have nobody to blame but themselves though. I was not a fan of past signings but am with the recent ones (most likely no money to spend now, with the 'I got to have that' attitude, when money was available) 

We lost TT with a recent decent cap hit because of past overindulgence, hopefully those days are behind us, as it is the Top 6 and D  we need cash for

  I think we will be ok, I just don't think we are as good as we could be right now

 

 

 

It appears you are looking at this with a bit of hindsight. CAP is an issue now but when Erickson was signed the Canucks were looking at a yearly increase in CAP limits. 

Even last year in pre-Covid the anticipated CAP limit was going to $84 million. Canuck management has always had the luxury of an ownership that supported their spending. TT hurts but considering the circumstances it is what it is. On the other side of the scale we have JT Miller for a 1st rounder.  

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18 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I agree with you, They wanted to keep TT and stated they wanted a player like him before BB got injured

 

I also think it was inexcusable to be up against the cap, while being at the bottom 6 of the league for so many years, with a payroll of a Top 6 team

How can you improve on your Top 6 and D with so much tied up in a Bottom 6?

I believe Management and Ownership lost their patience and jumped the gun a year too early a few years ago. They could have got character cheaper  vets  on shorter contracts and received the same results as the expensive, name, longer term, vets, until they wanted to play their Drafted players

 

The team would have had to face the consequences of their negligent spending eventually (Why i was never excited about any of those signings), the flat cap didn't help, however, the flat cap isn't causing the issues. It's only amplifying them. The Canucks have nobody to blame but themselves though. I was not a fan of past signings but am with the recent ones (most likely no money to spend now, with the 'I got to have that' attitude, when money was available) 

We lost TT with a recent decent cap hit because of past overindulgence, hopefully those days are behind us, as it is the Top 6 and D  we need cash for

  I think we will be ok, I just don't think we are as good as we could be right now

 

 

 

We lost TT because of Covid and a flat cap. End of story. It's also making it nearly impossible to move contracts that would normally be much easier to move. Sutter traded and a $2m rise in cap is $6m. More than enough to sign TT or comparable.

Edited by Gawdzukes
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At the moment, the Canucks do not have a top 6; it's more of a top 4 with Miller, Pete, Boes and Bo. Losing  TT is a big drop in talent.

 

Imo, Pearson would be a very good 3rd LW, but is not good enough to consider him a 2nd liner. 

 

This is a huge season for Jake.  If he can step up his game and be consistent, he will be a good option in the top 6.  He has a lot to prove, and I really hope he is up for it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

At the moment, the Canucks do not have a top 6; it's more of a top 4 with Miller, Pete, Boes and Bo. Losing  TT is a big drop in talent.

 

Imo, Pearson would be a very good 3rd LW, but is not good enough to consider him a 2nd liner. 

 

This is a huge season for Jake.  If he can step up his game and be consistent, he will be a good option in the top 6.  He has a lot to prove, and I really hope he is up for it.

 

 

I do too, and I think he will be. He had better be, because Podz is going to be here sometime in 2021, challenging him for that spot.

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16 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

We lost TT because of Covid and a flat cap. End of story. It's also making it nearly impossible to move contracts that would normally be much easier to move. Sutter traded and a $2m rise in cap is $6m. More than enough to sign TT or comparable.

Lol we lost TT because we were Always at or near the top of the cap like the Top 6 teams, while being at the basement for over 1/2 decade as I stated , and left little options available End of story;)

Anyways, it is what it is now, hopefully they realize the mistakes now, and there will no longer be an over indulgence of spending on the Bottom 6 anymore

Will be glad when we get value on our cap spending in a few years hopefully

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24 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Lol we lost TT because we were Always at or near the top of the cap like the Top 6 teams, while being at the basement for over 1/2 decade as I stated , and left little options available End of story;)

Anyways, it is what it is now, hopefully they realize the mistakes now, and there will no longer be an over indulgence of spending on the Bottom 6 anymore

Will be glad when we get value on our cap spending in a few years hopefully

TT is not that big of a deal. Pearson's deal is gonna expire, so chances are, we aren't gonna keep him in the long run. If we had signed TT, being that he's on the other side of 30, the fans will still complain about spending too much money and too much term.

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14 hours ago, higgyfan said:

At the moment, the Canucks do not have a top 6; it's more of a top 4 with Miller, Pete, Boes and Bo. Losing  TT is a big drop in talent.

 

Imo, Pearson would be a very good 3rd LW, but is not good enough to consider him a 2nd liner. 

 

This is a huge season for Jake.  If he can step up his game and be consistent, he will be a good option in the top 6.  He has a lot to prove, and I really hope he is up for it.

 

 

Between mid-November and the end of January there was a 33 game span where Pearson scored 33 points.

He's also bemoaned the fact his scoring comes in bunches but that was essentially half the year at 1st line production.

I also struggle to see him as a legit top 6 piece, but he has good chemistry with Bo. Unfortunately, Jake just doesn’t.
I think Jake’s best shot at the Top 6 is leapfrogging to the Petey line and having Miller player-coaching him every second of every shift.

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Not sure where Jake's going to start but I think this training camp is really going to separate the boys from the men, the same way Gaudette came in last year and just blew away a lot of the veterans. Hopefully JV can bring that intensity but let's see - it'll be interesting to see who's ready and who's not. I'm hoping we've got at least a 20-goal scorer in Jake by now and maybe Covid is the perfect thing to put all the other life distractions at bay and force him to just focus on hockey...

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On 12/28/2020 at 12:04 AM, ba;;isticsports said:

Lol we lost TT because we were Always at or near the top of the cap like the Top 6 teams, while being at the basement for over 1/2 decade as I stated , and left little options available End of story;)

Anyways, it is what it is now, hopefully they realize the mistakes now, and there will no longer be an over indulgence of spending on the Bottom 6 anymore

Will be glad when we get value on our cap spending in a few years hopefully

You're glossing over the fact that because of the COVID cap other teams are being very cheap. In the years we signed our bottom 6, not only was the cap on an upward trajectory but it was far easier to unload veteran players like Sutter, Beagle, Rousell etc. Not to mention, if it wasn't for the Louongo recapture we could have afforded TT as well.

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