avelanch

Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

It took years to though :rolleyes: I think when he saw what Tuch was doing, that is what he wants from Jake and was the last straw and why he referenced Tuch. You don't need to fight, just skate, hit and be a menace out there and score, Use what you got and apply yourself and good things will happen for you and your team

sure but not everyone is on McDavids development curve. Some guys take longer. But at least now everyone knows whats what. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

sure but not everyone is on McDavids development curve. Some guys take longer. But at least now everyone knows whats what. 

Come on, JV has been a pro for 5 seasons, he's likely  40% through his career. As a Pro he has already wasted millions of  $

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Come on, JV has been a pro for 5 seasons, he's likely  40% through his career. As a Pro he has already wasted millions of  $

This isn't exactly true. One of those seasons was when he was 19, which most players never get to do (and arguably hampered his development as a result). 40% would put him on pace to be 30 or 31 at retirement so then are we assuming he's not going to be worth anything after 30? He may not live up to expectations here, but he can still be a useful bottom 6 guy in this league at the very least, arguably for a long time to come.

 

I get that people are biased and impatient with the guy, but I kind of think this train of thought of "40% through his career" is a really silly way of looking at things at best.

 

And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he's going to necessarily become even a top 6 forward. I hope he does but I'm not banking on it, but I'm certainly not going to think the other way either. Simply put, he's 24 and most players see their prime around the age of 27. Perhaps we should look at things that way instead of this "40%". It's just far more realistic and doesn't put an unnecessary spin on things. While you can't decorate a turd with whipcream and have it not be a turd, you also can't decorate something that's not a turd with a turd and claim it's a turd. ;)

Edited by The Lock
  • Hydration 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Come on, JV has been a pro for 5 seasons, he's likely  40% through his career. As a Pro he has already wasted millions of  $

Who cares if he has "wasted millions"  - that is his problem - he brings good value to the team for what his contract is worth and that is all we can ask for.

 

I am not going to fantasize over if he was worth a $5M per season contract.

 

My only gripe on JV is his engagement and consistency. hopefully he is rounding the bend and increases his value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The Lock said:

This isn't exactly true. One of those seasons was when he was 19, which most players never get to do (and arguably hampered his development as a result). 40% would put him on pace to be 30 or 31 at retirement so then are we assuming he's not going to be worth anything after 30? He may not live up to expectations here, but he can still be a useful bottom 6 guy in this league at the very least, arguably for a long time to come.

 

I get that people are biased and impatient with the guy, but I kind of think this train of thought of "40% through his career" is a really silly way of looking at things at best.

 

And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he's going to necessarily become even a top 6 forward. I hope he does but I'm not banking on it, but I'm certainly not going to think the other way either. Simply put, he's 24 and most players see their prime around the age of 27. Perhaps we should look at things that way instead of this "40%". It's just far more realistic and doesn't put an unnecessary spin on things. While you can't decorate a turd with whipcream and have it not be a turd, you also can't decorate something that's not a turd with a turd and claim it's a turd. ;)

Here's the thing about being a pro, for most players any way. You look, you learn and you get better. On and off the ice. Your conditioning, your diet, your outlook. I recall Burrows ( who has to be a role model) once saying "Well maybe he'll get it some day" and that was during the summer. I'm glad he's up in Kelowna maybe get away from other influences in his life. He lacks the  drive for a successful businessman or athlete. At 24 many are doing far more demanding careers and expectation than Jake. Seems like Benning has seen enough too, 

Edited by Fred65

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Chicken. said:

Who cares if he has "wasted millions"  - that is his problem - he brings good value to the team for what his contract is worth and that is all we can ask for.

 

I am not going to fantasize over if he was worth a $5M per season contract.

 

My only gripe on JV is his engagement and consistency. hopefully he is rounding the bend and increases his value.

Yeah just like Marky wasted millions by waiting until he was 28 or so before establishing himself. Amirite?

  • Haha 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Here's the thing about being a pro, for most players any way. You look, you learn and you get better. On and off the ice. Your conditioning, your diet, your outlook. I recall Burrows ( who has to be a role model) once saying "Well maybe he'll get it some day" and that was during the summer. I'm glad he's up in Kelowna maybe get away from other influences in his life. He lacks the  drive for a successful businessman or athlete. At 24 many are doing far more demanding careers and expectation than Jake. Seems like Benning has seen enough too, 

Many are sure, but many more are not.

 

Let's not forget that.

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Yeah just like Marky wasted millions by waiting until he was 28 or so before establishing himself. Amirite?

Tbf, goalies’ career trajectory is a bit different. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, guntrix said:

Tbf, goalies’ career trajectory is a bit different. 

A lot more unpredictable for sure.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, guntrix said:

Tbf, goalies’ career trajectory is a bit different. 

Bertuzzi didn't really establish himself until he was 24 (not saying Jake will be Bertuzzi). Even JT Miller took until he was 26 until breaking out like he did last season and when they asked AV about his progression, he said he "gets it" now. All players develop at different rates. Seems like a ridiculous statement to suggest Jake "wasted millions" as if he intentionally threw away millions. Jake has been progressing in his career and not just offensively, but defensively as well.

 

We hear statements like dmen take longer to develop, power forward take longer to develop, etc. The reality is that all players have different trajectories. Jake might not find that next level until he's moves elsewhere and some players are just like that or maybe if we are patient just long enough, he will breakthrough eventually. Of course he could just be a 30-40 point 3rd liner, and at least he could still make a career out of that.

  • Thanks 1
  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/5/2020 at 9:17 AM, theo5789 said:

Bertuzzi didn't really establish himself until he was 24 (not saying Jake will be Bertuzzi). Even JT Miller took until he was 26 until breaking out like he did last season and when they asked AV about his progression, he said he "gets it" now. All players develop at different rates. Seems like a ridiculous statement to suggest Jake "wasted millions" as if he intentionally threw away millions. Jake has been progressing in his career and not just offensively, but defensively as well.

 

We hear statements like dmen take longer to develop, power forward take longer to develop, etc. The reality is that all players have different trajectories. Jake might not find that next level until he's moves elsewhere and some players are just like that or maybe if we are patient just long enough, he will breakthrough eventually. Of course he could just be a 30-40 point 3rd liner, and at least he could still make a career out of that.

That’s great but we were talking about Markstrom. Goalies are definitely a bit different. 

  • Hydration 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sold my Ice Premiere /99 acetate of JV after the playoffs, for 1/3rd less than its worth. Regretting that decision now as I feel that with the opportunity he has coming into the season, he's going to succeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, guntrix said:

That’s great but we were talking about Markstrom. Goalies are definitely a bit different. 

Some goalies like Carter Hart/Carey Price/etc jump into the league right away. Some take longer like Markstrom or even say Binnington. The point I was making is that players in all positions have different trajectories where some take off and some don't. To suggest Jake was throwing millions away as if it's intentional and he could flip a switch is no different than saying Marky could've flipped a switch when he was 23 or whatever and just be good instead of "wasting millions". This whole "goalies being different" is no different than statements like dmen take longer to develop, power forwards take longer to develop, etc. It's a generalization that doesn't apply to all.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Some goalies like Carter Hart/Carey Price/etc jump into the league right away. Some take longer like Markstrom or even say Binnington. The point I was making is that players in all positions have different trajectories where some take off and some don't. To suggest Jake was throwing millions away as if it's intentional and he could flip a switch is no different than saying Marky could've flipped a switch when he was 23 or whatever and just be good instead of "wasting millions". This whole "goalies being different" is no different than statements like dmen take longer to develop, power forwards take longer to develop, etc. It's a generalization that doesn't apply to all.

Yes, some players are like Jimmy Carson, looking like superstars at age 20 and pretty much done by 25. But others are like Blake Wheeler or Bertuzzi or the Sedins, looking disappointing at Virtanen's age, blossoming in their mid-twenties and not looking like stars until they are close to 30. Everyone has a different trajectory, and as long as Jake continues to improve each year, which he has, giving up on him would be silly.

  • Hydration 1
  • Huggy Bear 1
  • Vintage 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Jake was working out with Myers in Kelowna for some of this off season but Myers is now in van skating with the a few of the guys... I didn't hear (so far) that Jake is part of that group.  I hope he gets with the boys sooner than later... and has that good influence around him so he's ready to hit the ground running for start of season.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said:

I know Jake was working out with Myers in Kelowna for some of this off season but Myers is now in van skating with the a few of the guys... I didn't hear (so far) that Jake is part of that group.  I hope he gets with the boys sooner than later... and has that good influence around him so he's ready to hit the ground running for start of season.  

Pettersson, Roussel, Holtby, Demko, MacEwen, Edler and Myers were the group that skated together today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said:

I know Jake was working out with Myers in Kelowna for some of this off season but Myers is now in van skating with the a few of the guys... I didn't hear (so far) that Jake is part of that group.  I hope he gets with the boys sooner than later... and has that good influence around him so he's ready to hit the ground running for start of season.  

Make him room with Horvat on the road.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Make him room with Horvat on the road.

The giraffe has become the new dad. 

 

Also NHLers don't room together anymore according to Demko. I asked him who he roomed with during one of his twitch streams and he said he hasn't roomed with anyone since his AHL days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

The giraffe has become the new dad. 

 

Also NHLers don't room together anymore according to Demko. I asked him who he roomed with during one of his twitch streams and he said he hasn't roomed with anyone since his AHL days.

Most likely because he burned most of his ELC in the minors, plus he's a goalie:

 

Quote

It helps that the majority of players now get their own rooms on the road, something that was stipulated in the most recent Collective Bargaining Agreement. However, players on entry-level contracts still have to share rooms - with Casey DeSmith getting the exception whenever he is starting in goal. 

https://www.nhl.com/penguins/news/inside-scoop-on-the-road/c-301027206

Realistically, the team isn't saving that much if it's only guys on ELCs, but I do think it's valuable to help the guys bond as a group.

Edited by King Heffy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...