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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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3 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

You seem to be suggesting that management was down on Guance from the get go? He didn’t have Virtanen’s speed or shot. He never produced offence and had no serious physical game. I think he got a look in Boston but couldn’t stick. I suspect that Jake can stay in the NHL even if it isn’t with Vancouver. 
 

The idea that management teams would downgrade assets because they didn’t draft them makes no sense. 

I agree with you that Jake is a better talent than Gaunce, his occasional flashes prove that. But a GM’s reputation is tied directly to players that he drafts as we know all too well here,  consequently they tend to get a little longer leash.

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16 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Horvat isn't a fringe player, Gaunce is.  

Virtanen is barely above a fringe player now.  

 

Think of how many opportunities JV received and how many opportunities Brendan received.  

Effort, discipline and defensive reliability has never been an issue with Gaunce.  

How often has many kept harping about Jake's compete level, his inability to read the play, how he's rarely ever on the ice for key situations?

If it's based on merit, Brendan definitely got the short-end of it.  

 

Gaunce's ceiling and skill level is arguably lower than Jake's, but if Gaunce was acquired or drafted by Benning, he would have been given a longer leash.  

Except if this were the case, Benning wouldn't have traded McCann. That's an even shorter leash than Gaunce and McCann has proven to have a higher ceiling than Gaunce as well.

 

While I see what you're saying, I don't know if the speculation you're providing has enough of a base to stand on. There's just too much evidence to the contrary and Gaunce, whiile I really wanted him to work out, he just didn't have the skill needed that players such as Virtanen and McCann have to at least slot an NHL role. (and yes, I do think Virtanen could have a long career, just unlikely to be in the top 6)

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Vesey and Virtanen could do some good things on 3rd line. 

i would be so disapointed if Virtanen would be traded for someone like Nutivaraa who address only our requirement to expose a D under contract for next year instead of Myers.

i could listen a trade 1 on 1 involving DeBrusk or Bennett, but thats it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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While I think that Jake has been playing better of late, he's still producing nothing. 

 

Do people think that the addition of Vessey and Boyd make it possible for Jake to wave bye bye's without anybody noticing?

 

Vessey is the equivalent and while he's playing for a raise on his 900,000 (which is much lower than the year before) he's not going to spring back to over $2M unless he proves he can pot 15-20 goals again.  A bargain compared to JV imo. 

 

Roussel, the boat anchor, is going nowhere.  They could buy him out but Jake is a better candidate for a buy out imo.

 

We haven't seen Boyd yet and he's probably more of a 4th liner fighting it out with Hawyrluk and MacEwen

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On 3/23/2021 at 4:56 PM, Lancaster said:

If JV wasn't a Benning pick, he would have been gone long ago.  

 

Remember Brendan Gaunce?  A late 1st rounder, got size, defensively reliable and with better stats in the AHL compared to Virtanen, thus should have earned a spot on the Canucks more than Jake.  Probably could have easily been retained as a 4th line winger/centre since he already know the Canucks system.  But he was a Gillis pick, thus when he reached RFA, he was gone.  Not saying his career would have been better or whatever, but when you're a prospect from the previous regime, you have minimal leeway.  

hmmm... I think this is a bit of a rosy backward look here. Gaunce was frustratingly unwilling to engage physically. He did not generate offence. He was good at reading the play but he was easily passed over. It had nothing to do with it being someone else pick, he just wasn't engaged enough at the NHL level, as the rest of his career path has shown. 

 

Jake had/has far more potential than Gaunce, that should be obvious. 

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18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

hmmm... I think this is a bit of a rosy backward look here. Gaunce was frustratingly unwilling to engage physically. He did not generate offence. He was good at reading the play but he was easily passed over. It had nothing to do with it being someone else pick, he just wasn't engaged enough at the NHL level, as the rest of his career path has shown. 

 

Jake had/has far more potential than Gaunce, that should be obvious. 

I am no Virtanen fan... but Gaunce was just a less skilled version of him.  There is a reason he didn't stick in the NHL even after leaving the Canucks and is now playing in Sweden

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38 minutes ago, Provost said:

I am no Virtanen fan... but Gaunce was just a less skilled version of him.  There is a reason he didn't stick in the NHL even after leaving the Canucks and is now playing in Sweden

Gaunce was slow in terms of giving himself the time to get his shot away at the NHL level.  He had good AHL numbers (0.61 ppg) and ineffectual NHL numbers in 118 games (0.14 ppg).  So with over 100 NHL games, one could hardly say he didn't get a shot at the bigs.  A better parallel would be Reid Boucher although Boucher has a helluva release and did manage 20 goals in 133 games but Gaunce has a more average shot

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8 hours ago, Provost said:

I am no Virtanen fan... but Gaunce was just a less skilled version of him.  There is a reason he didn't stick in the NHL even after leaving the Canucks and is now playing in Sweden

 

7 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Gaunce was slow in terms of giving himself the time to get his shot away at the NHL level.  He had good AHL numbers (0.61 ppg) and ineffectual NHL numbers in 118 games (0.14 ppg).  So with over 100 NHL games, one could hardly say he didn't get a shot at the bigs.  A better parallel would be Reid Boucher although Boucher has a helluva release and did manage 20 goals in 133 games but Gaunce has a more average shot

I found him very frustrating to watch. I thought he had the tools to be an elite bottom 6 but just didn't seem to want to engage physically. But a lot of guys have a hard time making that kind of change, frankly its amazing we got anything out of Loui in that role. 

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3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

I found him very frustrating to watch. I thought he had the tools to be an elite bottom 6 but just didn't seem to want to engage physically. But a lot of guys have a hard time making that kind of change, frankly its amazing we got anything out of Loui in that role. 

here is the funny hting about Gaunce

in his last 4 games in the NHL he had 4 points and was +4

in his final season in Vancouver his +3 was behind only Stetcher +9 and Leivo +4

for all the love of Ty Motte he was only a + player in his first season in Chicago

Gaunce kind of reminded me of Manny Malhotra

Manny was supposed to be a big strong scorer

but he did not score very good and was a - player early in his career

by the time he came to Vancouver he learned the defensive side of the game but was never a physical player

If Gaunce were still here, would he be a better fit than Graovac or Gaudette with our current injury situation?

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13 minutes ago, lmm said:

here is the funny hting about Gaunce

in his last 4 games in the NHL he had 4 points and was +4

in his final season in Vancouver his +3 was behind only Stetcher +9 and Leivo +4

for all the love of Ty Motte he was only a + player in his first season in Chicago

Gaunce kind of reminded me of Manny Malhotra

Manny was supposed to be a big strong scorer

but he did not score very good and was a - player early in his career

by the time he came to Vancouver he learned the defensive side of the game but was never a physical player

If Gaunce were still here, would he be a better fit than Graovac or Gaudette with our current injury situation?

Even in Gaunce's final year before his last 4 games, his offensive production was increasing, but sometimes it seems like once you have a certain reputation, it can be very hard to shake.

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3 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Even in Gaunce's final year before his last 4 games, his offensive production was increasing, but sometimes it seems like once you have a certain reputation, it can be very hard to shake.

True

in the year before he scored at a point a game for 3 games

he put up 6 points in 37 games as a 23 year old

Gaudette has 7 points in 33 games this year as a 24 year old career -28

Graovac is a year older than Gaunce and has 11 points in 72 games 

don't see a whole lot of difference between Gaunce and Grao tbh

Gaunce just seems like a Gillis guy Jim had to jettison 

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1 minute ago, lmm said:

True

in the year before he scored at a point a game for 3 games

he put up 6 points in 37 games as a 23 year old

Gaudette has 7 points in 33 games this year as a 24 year old career -28

Graovac is a year older than Gaunce and has 11 points in 72 games 

don't see a whole lot of difference between Gaunce and Grao tbh

Gaunce just seems like a Gillis guy Jim had to jettison 

I'm not sure there was anything to do with him being a Gillis guy, but I felt and still do feel that Gaunce wasn't given a fair chance. His defensive game was excellent and his offense was improving. His physicality left a bit to be desired given his frame, but I feel he would've grown into a very solid 4th liner for many NHL teams.

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2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I'm not sure there was anything to do with him being a Gillis guy, but I felt and still do feel that Gaunce wasn't given a fair chance. His defensive game was excellent and his offense was improving. His physicality left a bit to be desired given his frame, but I feel he would've grown into a very solid 4th liner for many NHL teams.

I recall that his first year in Utica they made him a 4th LW in hopes he would learn to grind.

kind of funny that Grao was injured most of last year and Bailey is injured this year

Bailey might be a little more physical than Gaunce or Grao but maybe not

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4 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

I found him very frustrating to watch. I thought he had the tools to be an elite bottom 6 but just didn't seem to want to engage physically. But a lot of guys have a hard time making that kind of change, frankly its amazing we got anything out of Loui in that role. 

I believe he was starting to finish his checks more.... but he's like the friendly giant, his hits weren't punishing.  I do remember watching games where Gaunce laid players out onto the ice, but they were more "hard shoves" rather than anything where you go, "Woah!  Watch out!".

That being said, Jake Virtanen is hardly a "truculent" player himself.  Once in a while he does have a big hit here and there, but hardly the physical beast he was back in junior.  

 

In any case, the point I'm making isn't that Gaunce is the better player or whatever, just pointing out that if you're drafted by the current management, you will have more leeway than if you were draft from a different GM.  

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4 goals in 32 games 

 

I expected more after his off-season training with Weber and Myers. He came into camp like a more confident person. 

 

Yet he has regressed and it's not looking good for him. You can sign bargain bin players for 800k and they would put up the same or better stats.

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8 hours ago, playboi19 said:

4 goals in 32 games 

 

I expected more after his off-season training with Weber and Myers. He came into camp like a more confident person. 

 

Yet he has regressed and it's not looking good for him. You can sign bargain bin players for 800k and they would put up the same or better stats.

Sad but true. Like you I had big hopes for Jake this year. His d-side game has improved but his offence seems to stall on cross bars. He must be tied with EP40 in that stat. A tad better accuracy and the conversation around Jake. goes 180. 

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11 hours ago, lmm said:

 

but he did not score very good and was a - player early in his career

by the time he came to Vancouver he learned the defensive side of the game but was never a physical player

If Gaunce were still here, would he be a better fit than Graovac or Gaudette with our current injury situation?

 

11 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I'm not sure there was anything to do with him being a Gillis guy, but I felt and still do feel that Gaunce wasn't given a fair chance. His defensive game was excellent and his offense was improving. His physicality left a bit to be desired given his frame, but I feel he would've grown into a very solid 4th liner for many NHL teams.

this is why he was so frustrating imo. If a guy isn't physical on the bottom 6 you get... Loui. I do feel like Gaunce was given many opportunities tho, over 100 games is a heck of a look.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

this is why he was so frustrating imo. If a guy isn't physical on the bottom 6 you get... Loui. I do feel like Gaunce was given many opportunities tho, over 100 games is a heck of a look.

 

 

20-57-37 games in Vancouver is a fair look. The Bruins gave him 1 game. Now playing in Sweden. 241 games in the AHL. 

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6 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

this is why he was so frustrating imo. If a guy isn't physical on the bottom 6 you get... Loui. I do feel like Gaunce was given many opportunities tho, over 100 games is a heck of a look.

 

 

funny that you just said the Canucks couldn't attract talent because  Wonkie Willie 

but then you say Gauncer had plenty of opportunity... 77 of his games were played under The Wonk

 

then under the Green Monster he is passed over for players like Ganlund, Loui, Baertschi, Goldy, Gaudette (the shiney new thing) and Timmy ("relax") Schaller

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