SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 18 minutes ago, johngould21 said: Yes, but how many games have we seen Jake "at his best"? He's never shown any consistency in the 7 years he's played in Vancouver. It's sooooo frustrating to watch him out there, a step behind the play, a lazy penalty, a missed attempt at a hit, when its there for him to take. I'm not seeing NHL calibre hockey player in Jake at all. He reminds me so much of Kassian. Oh yeah, fully agree and share the frustration. Based off this season, Jake is performing at about the level you’d expect from a 700K 13th forward. And if he was that player, I’d have no complaints, really. But for a top-10 pick, with a $2.55M cap hit, and $3.4M salary next year? I hope he can turn it around, because he’s rapidly approaching cap dump/buyout territory. Home town boy and sunk cost fallacy only gets you so far. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 20 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Oh yeah, fully agree and share the frustration. Based off this season, Jake is performing at about the level you’d expect from a 700K 13th forward. And if he was that player, I’d have no complaints, really. But for a top-10 pick, with a $2.55M cap hit, and $3.4M salary next year? I hope he can turn it around, because he’s rapidly approaching cap dump/buyout territory. Home town boy and sunk cost fallacy only gets you so far. Let's be honest a terrible assessment of talent, what a waste of a picks and lest we forget this was all on Benning Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Let's be honest a terrible assessment of talent, what a waste of a picks and lest we forget this was all on Benning Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube I'm not going to pretend to know the inner workings of this franchise but I wouldnt be suprised if that pick was set before benning stepped in the building for the first time. He had only been employed for a couple weeks at the time the draft started and I believe it was the old scouting staff. That being said, I think we can officially say we should have drafted nylander lol. Edited April 25, 2021 by 73 Percent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 18 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Let's be honest a terrible assessment of talent, what a waste of a picks and lest we forget this was all on Benning Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube 4 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: I'm not going to pretend to know the inner workings of this franchise but I wouldnt be suprised if that pick was set before benning stepped in the building for the first time. He had only been employed for a couple weeks at the time the draft started and I believe it was the old scouting staff. That being said, I think we can officially say we should have drafted nylander lol. Could be. I would think the owners would have been drooling at the idea of acquiring an 'all star homeboy' for the team. Just think of the $$$ that would bring in. The draft is chancy and there have been many, many busts in the top 10picks over time. Most of them were picked by good GMs as well. Fred likes to constantly remind us of what a bad pick Virtanen was. Yes, in retrospect I would rather have Ehlers, Nylander and others too, but one strike at the bat does not send the batter out to retirement. Can you ever forgive Jim for his 1 time blunder, Fred? Maybe some people need to wait until Jake is not on the team, but it is certainly time to move on. Enjoy Pete, Podz, Hogs, Boeser, Demko, Hughes and the other upcoming prospects instead. Now that's inspiring! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 48 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said: When did you decide to cut him loose? Was it before he was offered his new contract ? Why i ask is if you were pushing for keeping TT and let Jake walk instead, I would consider you for our next GM of vision Think the Canucks are in tough with him and were afraid of letting a #6 o/a just walk after investing so much into him, maybe they thought they should have got more for a trade (if one was offered)?, now they get nothing with Kraken taking him? Maybe the change of scenery is the best for him to change his own game (and Seattle is still close for his friends and family) If he excels, all the JV supporters will say I told you so, it just took time But, at the same time he wasn't doing it here while given the chance and younger cheaper determined guys will hopefully replace him The league is full of high draft picks with promise that never pan out (Pouliot etc.) - That don't come back to haunt you, you just need to see by their commitment and desire to be better, when to maximise your investment and not let ego or fear cloud your judgement and know when to let go As contrary as this may sound about my statement of being an ardent Virtanen supporter, I would have cut Jake loose both before and after his current contract. After last season, if given the choice, I would have let Jake walk and sign Tofolli than what actually took place. I've wanted to see Jake succeed. On paper, there's no doubt it appears that he has all the tools to be an effective power forward. Unfortunately, the game is played on the ice and Virtanen hasn't shown enough development to warrant a $2.55M cap hit and a $3.4M qualifying offer at the end of next season. When he was signed after last season, I tried to keep an open mind (or more accurately, hoped) about Jake's prospects as a second line RW/replacement for Tofolli. IMO, he's had his shot in this shortened season and he's fallen flat, so as mentioned in my last post, I believe it's time for him to be cut loose. IMO, Virtanen's cap space is more valuable to the team than the player himself, so I would be open to the idea of letting him go for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank einstein Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 46 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Let's be honest a terrible assessment of talent, what a waste of a picks and lest we forget this was all on Benning Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube He's a good kid, I would love to see him succeed. If you think all this hate doesn't have an effect on him you're mistaken. Yes, yes, no one cares what anyone says here but come on, this kind of thing is so widespread that of course it does. And you all take turns pushing it farther. The last straw for me was when someone dropped the pretense of characterizing him as having a low "hockey" IQ and just said he has a low IQ. It was like a dam broke. You all seemed so overjoyed. Threads were made. I would be okay if you confined your bile to those threads but you pollute all other threads with gratuitous shots at him. Why? He's a good kid and he's trying. I admire him actually for how he's responded. And yes, he's no just trying, he's succeeding. Green says he's a good player. Benning gave him a contract. He hasn't been traded. None of them have said anything that would support all your fantasies. Does he have to grimace when he makes an effort? would that help? I wonder what would happen if no one said anything negative for the rest of the season. Maybe he would play more consistently at his best, which we all know is pretty damn good. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 2 hours ago, higgyfan said: Could be. I would think the owners would have been drooling at the idea of acquiring an 'all star homeboy' for the team. Just think of the $$$ that would bring in. The draft is chancy and there have been many, many busts in the top 10picks over time. Most of them were picked by good GMs as well. Fred likes to constantly remind us of what a bad pick Virtanen was. Yes, in retrospect I would rather have Ehlers, Nylander and others too, but one strike at the bat does not send the batter out to retirement. Can you ever forgive Jim for his 1 time blunder, Fred? Maybe some people need to wait until Jake is not on the team, but it is certainly time to move on. Enjoy Pete, Podz, Hogs, Boeser, Demko, Hughes and the other upcoming prospects instead. Now that's inspiring! Benning took over I believe 5 weeks prior to the draft, he had time to meet and discuss with scouts ... and this video shows part of the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Benning took over I believe 5 weeks prior to the draft, he had time to meet and discuss with scouts ... and this video shows part of the process OK. How is that related to what I posted? I still think that the owners would have been very excited about the prospect of hometown boy making it big on their Canucks. How much of an influence that had on the pick is unknown and nor do I care. Why are you and some others still beating the dead horse regarding that pick. Even the most staunch Virtanen fans think that at #6 Jake was not a good pick. It's actually really sad for Jake as he probably had extremely high hopes and may be facing a grim reality. Everyone knows. Most choose to move on and enjoy the other players that have been drafted. The Canucks have a very good, young core and some decent prospects on the way. The future is looking very good for this team. Wohooo! Don't worry, be happy...etc. Like I said before, there are lots of top 10 draft busts in the NHL and many are made by good GMs. It's not always a sure thing. It's all part of dealing with extremely young and raw players. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 i believe jake has 16 games to turn his game around, otherwise it might be time to cut some more fat. vesey at 1 mill is it much worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post -AJ- Posted April 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 26, 2021 4 hours ago, gurn said: 314 regular season games played, with 16 in the playoffs 54 goals 45 assists reg season, and 2 goals 1 assist in playoffs. How many more games do people have to watch before they understand the guy IS an NHL player? He may not be as good as they want, but he is a player. Over his career, sure, especially during the regular season. Last playoffs and this year? He's a fringe 4th liner in terms of production. If you include the 2020 playoffs, in his last 51 games, he had 7 points (6G, 1A). That pro-rates to 11 points a year. That production is only acceptable to the premium 4th line guys who provide huge assets in physical play, defensive play, or leadership and they usually need those in droves to make up for that paltry production. Virtanen's absense of his prior offense is one (not the only) reason why we're struggling this year. At his peak, Virtanen is a fringe 2nd line powerforward with a good physical edge. At his valleys, as we're seeing now, he's a 13th forward or AHL material. Are the peaks worth the valleys? Last regular season, I would've told you "yes". This year I'm not so sure. I've always been on "team Virtanen" and I still am. However, just because I'm cheering for him to succeed, doesn't mean I can blindly look past his mistakes and failures. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 18 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Over his career, sure, especially during the regular season. Last playoffs and this year? He's a fringe 4th liner in terms of production. If you include the 2020 playoffs, in his last 51 games, he had 7 points (6G, 1A). That pro-rates to 11 points a year. That production is only acceptable to the premium 4th line guys who provide huge assets in physical play, defensive play, or leadership and they usually need those in droves to make up for that paltry production. Virtanen's absense of his prior offense is one (not the only) reason why we're struggling this year. At his peak, Virtanen is a fringe 2nd line powerforward with a good physical edge. At his valleys, as we're seeing now, he's a 13th forward or AHL material. Are the peaks worth the valleys? Last regular season, I would've told you "yes". This year I'm not so sure. I've always been on "team Virtanen" and I still am. However, just because I'm cheering for him to succeed, doesn't mean I can blindly look past his mistakes and failures. My sentiments exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 21 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Last playoffs and this year? Game winning goal in the playoffs, iirc This year hasn't been good for a lot people, including hockey players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Petey_BOI said: i believe jake has 16 games to turn his game around, otherwise it might be time to cut some more fat. vesey at 1 mill is it much worse? Based on 10 games, NO to Vesey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 15 hours ago, Law of Goalies said: If only his teammates or linemates finished their chances. your joking right? can't remember a decent pass from Jake in a long time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said: Based on 10 games, NO to Vesey sure no vesey, but i don't think you will find much better for under a mill. anyways the point is if virtanen is playing like this, a replacement level (IE one of our prospects) forward might bring more bang for the buck. vesey played 7 games for us btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 14 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said: sure no vesey, but i don't think you will find much better for under a mill. anyways the point is if virtanen is playing like this, a replacement level (IE one of our prospects) forward might bring more bang for the buck. vesey played 7 games for us btw. 7 ok, thanks Jake will not be hard to replace ZACK MACEWEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 15 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said: 7 ok, thanks Jake will not be hard to replace ZACK MACEWEN I AGREE WITH YOU 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 We saw JB cut Gaudette loose after not building on a decent year last season, and he'll do the same with Virtanen in this off-season I think. Right now Green is giving him <10 minutes a night and deploying him as a 4th liner. A 4th liner who doesn't score, doesn't contribute on the PP anymore, doesn't kill penalties and doesn't take faceoffs. Gaudette was the last player to do this (basically bring nothing to the table but 1 goal every 20 games) and JB got rid of him (arguably rightly so timing-wise). Virtanen is certainly next, especially with his higher cap hit. Virtanen just needs to bring SOMETHING to the table. We see MacEwan can hit and fight, Boyd and Highmore can at least take faceoffs and therefore play on the PK, Motte does so many things (gritty, win battles, PK and score) but Virtanen really doesn't bring anything. He hasn't carved out his own niche and he's had opportunities all over the lineup to do so. The only other passenger I'd say right now is Vesey but he was a cheap waiver wire pickup, not a 6th overall pick on >$2M... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law of Goalies Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 22 hours ago, bigbadcanucks said: If comment^^^^^is sarcastic - yah, I agree. If Jake only had better and more offensively gifted linemates to play with, he wouldn't have a big fat donut under the assist column. If comment^^^^^is for real - ahhh no. Plays go to die on Jake Virtanen's stick. I have been an ardent Jake Virtanen supporter, but the time has come to cut him loose. He's sorely lacking on hockey intelligence, creativity, abrasiveness/agitation, puck skills, and takes the momentum-killer crown (in another words, he's a dunce on the ice). He's improved on the hitting and positional play, but he doesn't do nearly enough to be a regular roster player. It's time to move on from Virtanen. Fingers crossed the Kraken take him in the expansion draft. If you made this statement a few years ago, i would definitely agree but you seem to just like repeating what others are saying the paat few years instead of actually watching the games. Open your eyes! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law of Goalies Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 23 hours ago, Zhukini said: There's one other forward in the whole NHL that's played semi regularly that also doesn't have an assist. At some point it's on him Yeah no, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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