Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


avelanch
 Share

Recommended Posts

I think by this point we all know Jake makes... questionable decisions. Consistently.

 

But you would think he would still get the basics down that play to his attributes. Hitting. Chasing down the puck with his speed, and using his strength to win battles along the boards.

 

But somehow, despite being blessed with these tools he can't show more than glimpses of these basics.... let alone meet expectations to actually wrack up the points. If he's not scoring, he should be throwing 3 or 4 of those big hits every game. He should be making life miserable for the opponents. Instead, he takes needless penalties and otherwise plays fairly invisibly, all things considered.

 

I supported Jake as a pick. I felt that while he didn't have the flash of Nylander that he had the kind of size and speed that would make him an elite 3rd liner if he didn't meet his potential as a top 6 guy. We needed size and grit.

 

Guess we needed heart as well.

  • Hydration 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, J-P said:

I know Nylander comes off a bit arrogant and as a floater, but man he's got skills and he's not as soft as people say, goes to the net and didn't even leave the ice after that heavy hit, instead driving play in the other zone on the same shift.

Nylander is certainly a talented player. I just think he needs a haircut and this shedding of locks would only make him faster and shiftier!

 

Hope JV lays a huge check again tonight and even pots a goal for the fans to shotgun ;)

  • Hydration 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The remaining games of this season may Jake’s last opportunity to show that he stays with the Canucks.

I thought he would have put together a complete game by now.

 

Perhaps a move for him at the ED and Draft.

I think Green has been patient enough and given him fair time.

Im sure his minutes will go up as we finish the season to see if he sticks or not.

Edited by SilentSam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Law of Goalies said:

If only his teammates or linemates finished their chances. 

There's one other forward in the whole NHL that's played semi regularly that also doesn't have an assist. 

 

At some point it's on him

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Law of Goalies said:

If only his teammates or linemates finished their chances. 

If comment^^^^^is sarcastic - yah, I agree.  If Jake only had better and more offensively gifted linemates to play with, he wouldn't have a big fat donut under the assist column.

 

If comment^^^^^is for real - ahhh no.  Plays go to die on Jake Virtanen's stick. 

 

I have been an ardent Jake Virtanen supporter, but the time has come to cut him loose. He's sorely lacking on hockey intelligence, creativity, abrasiveness/agitation, puck skills, and takes the momentum-killer crown (in another words, he's a dunce on the ice).  He's improved on the hitting and positional play, but he doesn't do nearly enough to be a regular roster player.  It's time to move on from Virtanen.  Fingers crossed the Kraken take him in the expansion draft.

Edited by bigbadcanucks
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching the game last night it seems obvious that JV needs a desperate change in scenery. He has had ample opportunity to show he wants to stay and make a difference on the team.  Unfortunately at this point it doesn't seem like he is ever going to put it all together for us.

 

He might end up in Seattle or another team and find his game, I just don't think it's going to be with Vancouver.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Virtanen really needs to cut out the careless, undisciplined penalties. I have no issue with him taking a few penalties from crossing the line, when it comes to being aggressive and physical, or just bringing a pest factor, but the lazy ones are just momentum killers, and so unnecessary.

 

His saving grace is that he also draws a lot of penalties. But he still can’t afford to take the lazy, careless ones (and he’s a negative differential this season).

 

Jake isn’t JT Miller. Miller also takes a lot of bad penalties, and more than he draws, but he makes up for it on the scoreboard (although I’d still like JT to clean up his game and play more disciplined).


Unless Jake gets back to “shotgun Jake” and becomes a regular 20 goal scorer, he just doesn’t provide enough value on ice to make up for the dumb penalties he takes (and many of his other lapses in judgment, at both ends of the ice). Certainly not this season, where he’s not creating nearly enough offence to forgive him for a negative penalty differential, with a high percentage of his penalties being of the lazy and careless variety.

 

It’s really a shame though, because when Jake is at his best, he’s really a handful out there, creates a lot of positive flow and possession, draws penalties, and creates chances. Even when he’s not scoring, “good Jake” provides positive value. But “bad Jake” can be a serious drag on the team. And “bad Jake” with anaemic scoring is just a waste of time and space on a roster, unfortunately (especially at his cap hit and salary next year).

 

Hopefully he figures it out, but I’ve also been saying that for a half dozen seasons or so.

Yes, but how many games have we seen Jake "at his best"? He's never shown any consistency in the 7 years he's played in Vancouver. It's sooooo frustrating to watch him out there, a step behind the play, a lazy penalty, a missed attempt at a hit, when its there for him to take. I'm not seeing NHL calibre hockey player in Jake at all. He reminds me so much of Kassian.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, bigbadcanucks said:

If comment^^^^^is sarcastic - yah, I agree.  If Jake only had better and more offensively gifted linemates to play with, he wouldn't have a big fat donut under the assist column.

 

If comment^^^^^is for real - ahhh no.  Plays go to die on Jake Virtanen's stick. 

 

I have been an ardent Jake Virtanen supporter, but the time has come to cut him loose. He's sorely lacking on hockey intelligence, creativity, abrasiveness/agitation, puck skills, and takes the momentum-killer crown (in another words, he's a dunce on the ice).  He's improved on the hitting and positional play, but he doesn't do nearly enough to be a regular roster player.  It's time to move on from Virtanen.  Fingers crossed the Kraken take him in the expansion draft.

When did you decide to cut him loose? Was it before he was offered his new contract ?

Why i ask is if you were pushing for keeping TT and let Jake walk instead, I would consider you for our next GM of vision ;)

Think the Canucks are in tough with him and were afraid of letting a #6 o/a just walk after investing so much into him, maybe they thought they should have got more for a trade (if one was offered)?, now they get nothing with Kraken taking him? 

Maybe the change of scenery is the best for him to change his own game (and Seattle is still close for his friends and family)

If he excels, all the JV supporters will say I told you so, it just took time ;)

But, at the same time he wasn't doing it here while given the chance and younger cheaper determined guys will hopefully replace him

The league is full of high draft picks with promise that never pan out (Pouliot etc.) - That don't come back to haunt you, you just need to see by their commitment and desire to be better, when to maximise your investment and not let ego or fear cloud your judgement and know when to let go

Edited by ba;;isticsports
Link to comment
Share on other sites

314  regular  season games played, with 16 in the playoffs

54 goals 45 assists reg season, and 2 goals 1 assist in playoffs.

 

How many more games do people have to watch before they understand the guy IS an NHL player?

He may not be as good as they want, but he is a player.

 

  • Hydration 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

Yes, but how many games have we seen Jake "at his best"? He's never shown any consistency in the 7 years he's played in Vancouver. It's sooooo frustrating to watch him out there, a step behind the play, a lazy penalty, a missed attempt at a hit, when its there for him to take. I'm not seeing NHL calibre hockey player in Jake at all. He reminds me so much of Kassian.

Oh yeah, fully agree and share the frustration.

 

Based off this season, Jake is performing at about the level you’d expect from a 700K 13th forward. And if he was that player, I’d have no complaints, really.

 

But for a top-10 pick, with a $2.55M cap hit, and $3.4M salary next year?

 

I hope he can turn it around, because he’s rapidly approaching cap dump/buyout territory.

 

Home town boy and sunk cost fallacy only gets you so far.

  • Hydration 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Oh yeah, fully agree and share the frustration.

 

Based off this season, Jake is performing at about the level you’d expect from a 700K 13th forward. And if he was that player, I’d have no complaints, really.

 

But for a top-10 pick, with a $2.55M cap hit, and $3.4M salary next year?

 

I hope he can turn it around, because he’s rapidly approaching cap dump/buyout territory.

 

Home town boy and sunk cost fallacy only gets you so far.

Let's be honest a terrible assessment of talent, what a waste of a picks and lest we forget this was all on Benning

 

Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Let's be honest a terrible assessment of talent, what a waste of a picks and lest we forget this was all on Benning

 

Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube

I'm not going to pretend to know the inner workings of this franchise but I wouldnt be suprised if that pick was set before benning stepped in the building for the first time. 

 

He had only been employed for a couple weeks at the time the draft started and I believe it was the old scouting staff.

 

That being said, I think we can officially say we should have drafted nylander lol.

Edited by 73 Percent
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Let's be honest a terrible assessment of talent, what a waste of a picks and lest we forget this was all on Benning

 

Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube

 

4 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

I'm not going to pretend to know the inner workings of this franchise but I wouldnt be suprised if that pick was set before benning stepped in the building for the first time. 

 

He had only been employed for a couple weeks at the time the draft started and I believe it was the old scouting staff.

 

That being said, I think we can officially say we should have drafted nylander lol.

Could be.  I would think the owners would have been drooling at the idea of acquiring an 'all star homeboy' for the team.  Just think of the $$$ that would bring in.

 

The draft is chancy and there have been many, many busts in the top 10picks over time.  Most of them were picked by good GMs as well.  Fred likes to constantly remind us of what a bad pick Virtanen was.  Yes, in retrospect I would rather have Ehlers, Nylander and others too, but one strike at the bat does not send the batter out to retirement.  Can you ever forgive Jim for his 1 time blunder, Fred?

 

Maybe some people need to wait until Jake is not on the team, but it is certainly time to move on.

 

Enjoy Pete, Podz, Hogs, Boeser, Demko, Hughes and the other upcoming prospects instead.  Now that's inspiring!

  • Vintage 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

When did you decide to cut him loose? Was it before he was offered his new contract ?

Why i ask is if you were pushing for keeping TT and let Jake walk instead, I would consider you for our next GM of vision ;)

Think the Canucks are in tough with him and were afraid of letting a #6 o/a just walk after investing so much into him, maybe they thought they should have got more for a trade (if one was offered)?, now they get nothing with Kraken taking him? 

Maybe the change of scenery is the best for him to change his own game (and Seattle is still close for his friends and family)

If he excels, all the JV supporters will say I told you so, it just took time ;)

But, at the same time he wasn't doing it here while given the chance and younger cheaper determined guys will hopefully replace him

The league is full of high draft picks with promise that never pan out (Pouliot etc.) - That don't come back to haunt you, you just need to see by their commitment and desire to be better, when to maximise your investment and not let ego or fear cloud your judgement and know when to let go

As contrary as this may sound about my statement of being an ardent Virtanen supporter, I would have cut Jake loose both before and after his current contract.  After last season, if given the choice, I would have let Jake walk and sign Tofolli than what actually took place.

 

I've wanted to see Jake succeed.  On paper, there's no doubt it appears that he has all the tools to be an effective power forward. Unfortunately, the game is played on the ice and Virtanen hasn't shown enough development to warrant a $2.55M cap hit and a $3.4M qualifying offer at the end of next season. 

 

When he was signed after last season, I tried to keep an open mind (or more accurately, hoped) about Jake's prospects as a second line RW/replacement for Tofolli.  IMO, he's had his shot in this shortened season and he's fallen flat, so as mentioned in my last post, I believe it's time for him to be cut loose.  IMO, Virtanen's cap space is more valuable to the team than the player himself, so I would be open to the idea of letting him go for nothing.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Let's be honest a terrible assessment of talent, what a waste of a picks and lest we forget this was all on Benning

 

Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube

He's a good kid, I would love to see him succeed. If you think all this hate doesn't have an effect on him you're mistaken. Yes, yes, no one cares what anyone says here but come on, this kind of thing is so widespread that of course it does. And you all take turns pushing it farther. The last straw for me was when someone dropped the pretense of characterizing him as having a low "hockey" IQ and just said he has a low IQ. It was like a dam broke. You all seemed so overjoyed. Threads were made. I would be okay if you confined your bile to those threads but you pollute all other threads with gratuitous shots at him. Why? He's a good kid and he's trying. I admire him actually for how he's responded. And yes, he's no just trying, he's succeeding. Green says he's a good player. Benning gave him a contract. He hasn't been traded. None of them have said anything that would support all your fantasies. Does he have to grimace when he makes an effort? would that help? 

I wonder what would happen if no one said anything negative for the rest of the season. Maybe he would play more consistently at his best, which we all know is pretty damn good. 

  • Hydration 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

 

Could be.  I would think the owners would have been drooling at the idea of acquiring an 'all star homeboy' for the team.  Just think of the $$$ that would bring in.

 

The draft is chancy and there have been many, many busts in the top 10picks over time.  Most of them were picked by good GMs as well.  Fred likes to constantly remind us of what a bad pick Virtanen was.  Yes, in retrospect I would rather have Ehlers, Nylander and others too, but one strike at the bat does not send the batter out to retirement.  Can you ever forgive Jim for his 1 time blunder, Fred?

 

Maybe some people need to wait until Jake is not on the team, but it is certainly time to move on.

 

Enjoy Pete, Podz, Hogs, Boeser, Demko, Hughes and the other upcoming prospects instead.  Now that's inspiring!

Benning took over I believe 5 weeks prior to the draft, he had time to meet and discuss with scouts ... and this video shows part of the process

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Benning took over I believe 5 weeks prior to the draft, he had time to meet and discuss with scouts ... and this video shows part of the process

OK.  How is that related to  what I posted?  I still think that the owners would have been very excited about the prospect of hometown boy making it big on their Canucks.  How much of an influence that had on the pick is unknown and nor do I care.

 

Why are you and some others still beating the dead horse regarding that pick.  Even the most staunch Virtanen fans think that at #6 Jake was not a good pick.  It's actually really sad for Jake as he probably had extremely high hopes and may be facing a grim reality.  Everyone knows.  Most choose to move on and enjoy the other players that have been drafted.  The Canucks have a very good, young core and some decent prospects on the way. The future is looking very good for this team.  Wohooo!  Don't worry, be happy...etc.

 

Like I said before, there are lots of top 10 draft busts in the NHL and many are made by good GMs.  It's not always a sure thing.

It's all part of dealing with extremely young and raw players.

  • Hydration 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...