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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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We don't really have to care about his off ice stuff to decide whether he should be back or not.

He shouldn't, he has been terrible... folks pointing to his "success" last season conveniently neglect to recall that he was terrible in the first part of the season and terrible in the last part of the season, and he was terrible in the playoffs.  He had about 6 weeks in the middle of last season where he went on a tear.  When everyone was saying that he had finally turned a corner, I said it appears to just be a statistical blip and we should trade him at his high water mark... I got torn apart for my take on it.  He has played for years, believe what you have seen for 6 years and not what you have seen for 6 weeks.

Now he has negative value on his current contract and the opportunity cost of keeping him resulted in us losing a legit top 6 guy in Toffoli.

He probably gets bought out in the summer and gets to be someone else's problem.

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On 4/24/2021 at 1:54 AM, kloubek said:

I think by this point we all know Jake makes... questionable decisions. Consistently.

 

But you would think he would still get the basics down that play to his attributes. Hitting. Chasing down the puck with his speed, and using his strength to win battles along the boards.

 

But somehow, despite being blessed with these tools he can't show more than glimpses of these basics.... let alone meet expectations to actually wrack up the points. If he's not scoring, he should be throwing 3 or 4 of those big hits every game. He should be making life miserable for the opponents. Instead, he takes needless penalties and otherwise plays fairly invisibly, all things considered.

 

I supported Jake as a pick. I felt that while he didn't have the flash of Nylander that he had the kind of size and speed that would make him an elite 3rd liner if he didn't meet his potential as a top 6 guy. We needed size and grit.

 

Guess we needed heart as well.

Exactly! And what makes it maddening is the belief that he could be Tom Wilson if only he had the heart, fearlessness and conditioning.

Sadly he is a cheat who gives only half an effort to an employer who pays him well. On the rare occasions that Jake shows truculence it’s against someone smaller. He never fights in his weight class - too scared of getting his pretty face messed up. He’s the home-town version of Loungin’ Louie Erickson. If no one will give a 3rd round draft pick for him then stick him on waivers. His presence here is a bad example for our young players. 

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37 minutes ago, Provost said:

I said it appears to just be a statistical blip

He has, in the last 3 seasons, 38 goals in 177 games; this is ~18g/82 game pace. How those goals are distributed is irrelevant; that is what he has been regardless of how you want to see things. That's it, an 18 goal scorer. Disregarding any success a player has as some kind of aberration is not intelligent analysis. This is where you interpret this as some kind of defense of JV, which it isn't. I'm just stating facts, as uncomfortable as they may make you.

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2 minutes ago, BlastPast said:

He has, in the last 3 seasons, 38 goals in 177 games; this is ~18g/82 game pace. How those goals are distributed is irrelevant; that is what he has been regardless of how you want to see things. That's it, an 18 goal scorer. Disregarding any success a player has as some kind of aberration is not intelligent analysis. This is where you interpret this as some kind of defense of JV, which it isn't. I'm just stating facts, as uncomfortable as they may make you.

I suppose there may be a case that this year is more of a blip, with a drastic drop in production. He almost certainly does better next year, but the question is how much better.

 

You're correct in that he averages about 18 goals/82 games over the last 82 games, which is taken from a good sample IMO, the last three years. That said, he's always struggled a bit more with the playmaking side of things and he's gotten 28 assists in those 177 games, which is a 13-assist rate in 82 games. 31 points in 82 games isn't horrible and perfectly acceptable for a 3rd liner, but quite poor for a 2nd line guy (if one wants to argue that's where he's at).

 

All we can do (if we keep him) is hope that he performs more like he did from 2018-2020 than he has in 2021 (and 2020 playoffs).

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9 minutes ago, BlastPast said:

He has, in the last 3 seasons, 38 goals in 177 games; this is ~18g/82 game pace. How those goals are distributed is irrelevant; that is what he has been regardless of how you want to see things. That's it, an 18 goal scorer. Disregarding any success a player has as some kind of aberration is not intelligent analysis. This is where you interpret this as some kind of defense of JV, which it isn't. I'm just stating facts, as uncomfortable as they may make you.

Whenever someone uses "pace" it is an excuse for "not really that number"...that is someone trying to massage the data to make it look like something other than it is.  He doesn't get paid per 82 games, he gets paid for whole seasons.

You also neglect to note his points total... he gets virtually no assists.

His goals are 10, 15, 18, and 5 over the past 4 seasons... not a perennial 18 goal scorer

His points are 20, 25. 36, 5 over the past 4 seasons.

That is despite getting plenty of looks in the top 6 and PP time.  He isn't good at producing points... and that is his best attribute.

How the goals are distributed is immensely important as you can predict repeatability.  If Jeff Cowan gets 10 goals in 10 games... he isn't an 80 goal scorer.

Jake has 22 points since the start of last February. in 72 games played.

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26 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I suppose there may be a case that this year is more of a blip, with a drastic drop in production. He almost certainly does better next year, but the question is how much better.

 

You're correct in that he averages about 18 goals/82 games over the last 82 games, which is taken from a good sample IMO, the last three years. That said, he's always struggled a bit more with the playmaking side of things and he's gotten 28 assists in those 177 games, which is a 13-assist rate in 82 games. 31 points in 82 games isn't horrible and perfectly acceptable for a 3rd liner, but quite poor for a 2nd line guy (if one wants to argue that's where he's at).

 

All we can do (if we keep him) is hope that he performs more like he did from 2018-2020 than he has in 2021 (and 2020 playoffs).

Reasonable take. Wish I saw more of them.

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On 4/29/2021 at 7:29 PM, Law of Goalies said:

But people still hope that he plays like a 6th overall pick. I'm sure most jake supporters, like me, are not hoping or still expecting him to play like a 6th overall pick. We just think he is a decent player for a bottom 9 role and should not be paid more than now. Although you say he turned over the puck or he didnt tie up the stick, all players esp Miller does the same thing. The only reason why you ain't hating on him is because he scores (albeit playing first line and top pp minutes). I already concluded that he is a decent bottom 9 player who, against the blind hatred hr receives, doesnt hurt the team because he does a lot of things right. 

He’s not even a decent bottom 6 player

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On 4/27/2021 at 6:22 PM, cuporbust said:

Jake Virtanen will be able to say he played in the NHL. That's enough for some players.  He's one of them. More then I can say, so good on him, but he will never be anything more then that. Some dude that played in the NHL for a bit. He doesn't have the drive to be anything else . Not sure what else there is to talk about?

 

On 4/29/2021 at 8:23 PM, Warhippy said:

 

 

Gentlemen you can scroll back.

 

During the summer through July Jake was essentially living for about 2.5 weeks on a private residence near Kelowna while Troy Stecher was doing bag skates on his own in Penticton.  I was present while he was essentially being a pig of a human being with barely legal young women and shoving as much food in to his face as he could.  I did not see him drink much but I did see him essentially just being a giant self entitled d-bag.  I have first hand accounts of how he acquitted himself during the evenings and it was not pretty.

 

I posted numerous times about it in the lead up to the playoff return and the culmination was him declaring how he was untouchable and they'd never trade the hometown boy.  This again, while Stecher was practicing twice a day in 2-3 hour shifts in Penticton.

 

@higgyfan please scroll back to early/mid july last year.  I had some very choice words about his conduct.

 

@Law of Goalies your smarmy one liners and ridiculous attitude about the situation are charming but infantile.  Jake has worn his welcome out and his on ice attitude and effort show that.  You don't have to believe a single jot of what people say about the guy, I could care less.  But at this point in time he's dead weight and all the power to him finding himself somewhere else.  He's played himself off the roster under his own merit this year

Glad somebody else sees what a slimy pos he truly is. Jake is a party boy through and through. He has never been in great shape or demonstrated any significant improvement or growth in terms of maturity on or off the ice since he has been in the NHL.

 

He has exactly been one of those guys happy to do the bare minimum to stay in the league and coast by on his raw natural talents for as long as he possibly can.

 

He has good speed,size, and a decent wrist shot but lacks good decision making on and off the ice which speaks to his love of the game and desire to get better.

 

I had some info of him throwing parties a few months back in the middle of the season wouldn't be surprised if that was what to everyone going on the covid list.

 

The fact he was partying and trying to bang chick's from the ice team really show how desperate the dude is to use his clout to hookup with as many chicks as possible.

 

When he retires he is going to be on a podcast at the end of his career(barstool or with Bieksa or Shane O Brien?) or write a book probably shedding light on why he was bust and how most of it came down to him being content and not wanting to do the hard work to take his skills and overall game to the next level.

 

Oh and his off ice "habits" as well.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

Gawd, Miller is good but so freaking lazy in his own end it's not even funny. He's just such a good player he get's away with it sometimes. A lot of times he's fighting Hughes for whose fault the goal is. he just quits on the dside way earlier.

I said exactly this in the Miller thread not too long ago. The third goal by Ottawa last game, where Miller gave the puck away across the ice, he just gives up after. Let's Brady Tkachuk walk to the net with a little stick wack, and we get scored on. The guy can show so much heart, and then literally turn around and give up. It is becoming more and more infuriating honestly.

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9 hours ago, Provost said:

Whenever someone uses "pace" it is an excuse for "not really that number"...that is someone trying to massage the data to make it look like something other than it is.  He doesn't get paid per 82 games, he gets paid for whole seasons.

You also neglect to note his points total... he gets virtually no assists.

His goals are 10, 15, 18, and 5 over the past 4 seasons... not a perennial 18 goal scorer

His points are 20, 25. 36, 5 over the past 4 seasons.

That is despite getting plenty of looks in the top 6 and PP time.  He isn't good at producing points... and that is his best attribute.

How the goals are distributed is immensely important as you can predict repeatability.  If Jeff Cowan gets 10 goals in 10 games... he isn't an 80 goal scorer.

Jake has 22 points since the start of last February. in 72 games played.

I have no doubt that Jake scores 30 goals on his next team to secure a big fat contract. What happens after that I think is a crap shoot. 

 

He's got all the physical tools, but he's acted like a kid/clown here. I hope this current stuff isn't true, it would be horrible. But its time to move on regardless. 

 

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49 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I have no doubt that Jake scores 30 goals on his next team to secure a big fat contract. What happens after that I think is a crap shoot. 

 

He's got all the physical tools, but he's acted like a kid/clown here. I hope this current stuff isn't true, it would be horrible. But its time to move on regardless. 

May be KHL bound if there's any validity to the accusations.

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1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I have no doubt that Jake scores 30 goals on his next team to secure a big fat contract. What happens after that I think is a crap shoot. 

 

He's got all the physical tools, but he's acted like a kid/clown here. I hope this current stuff isn't true, it would be horrible. But its time to move on regardless. 

 

30 goals... in how many years?  He may never score 30 more goals in his entire NHL career 

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7 minutes ago, Provost said:

30 goals... in how many years?  He may never score 30 more goals in his entire NHL career 

it just wouldn't surprise me at all if that happened. He's never put in a full year of effort and the one time he gets inspired to, it will be for a big contract. 

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3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

it just wouldn't surprise me at all if that happened. He's never put in a full year of effort and the one time he gets inspired to, it will be for a big contract. 

What kind of effort though, just hard on the puck ?

I think he doesn't like to hit too hard, so guys don't come after him for it and why he doesn't do more than wrestle with someone if they hit one of his team mates in a vulnerable situation

Wonder how many times in all these years this bigger guy has come to a fallen comrades defense?

Not enough to be a good team mate and just a fringe player on this team with no consistent role he fills

He would be lucky if Seattle takes him and he stays close to his family and friends, but should've been shipped out East for some asset return

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54 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

What kind of effort though, just hard on the puck ?

I think he doesn't like to hit too hard, so guys don't come after him for it and why he doesn't do more than wrestle with someone if they hit one of his team mates in a vulnerable situation

Wonder how many times in all these years this bigger guy has come to a fallen comrades defense?

Not enough to be a good team mate and just a fringe player on this team with no consistent role he fills

He would be lucky if Seattle takes him and he stays close to his family and friends, but should've been shipped out East for some asset return

he would. Dunno, the kids a mystery. If I knew what the solution was I'd offer it to Benning in exchange for season tickets in the club level. 

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