Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Alflives]

44 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

JB prior to arriving in Vcr had been scouting for Boston, had attended all the Boston scouting meeting. he was as well appraised of the draft as any other in fact better. He had the views of all the Boston scouts as well as all the Vcr scouts

Could there have been a handshake deal with Boston, that JB stays out of the first round for that 2014 draft?  

[Fred65]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Could there have been a handshake deal with Boston, that JB stays out of the first round for that 2014 draft?  

To my knowledge business doesn't work like that. If they were afraid he'd take his knowledge with him they could have delayed his hiring by not permitting Vcr to talk to him. In legal terms I believe you can forbid a past employee to take files with them but they can't stop you from taking what's in your head. There's more than enough cases won on that premise

[Alflives]

Just now, Fred65 said:

To my knowledge business doesn't work like that. If they were afraid he'd take his knowledge with him they could have delayed his hiring by not permitting Vcr to talk to him. In legal terms I believe you can forbid a past employee to take files with them but they can't stop you from taking what's in your head. There's more than enough cases won on that premise

The NHL is one big business though, where Benning's future employment could be greatly effected by past behaviors.    

[Fred65]

23 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Jake was the kind of pick an owner would be drooling over.  Hometown kid that can crush the opponents, skate like the wind and has a great shot.  Pretty hard to say who's pick this was.

 

What coulda woulda shoulda been.

Neither of us know that. But I can't understand why an owner would hire a  guy based on his scouting acumen and then under mine that facet of his knowledge. Plus of course we have this evidence

 

Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube

 

Please note this Jim Benning talking not FA

Edited June 2, 2021 by Fred65

[Fred65]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The NHL is one big business though, where Benning's future employment could be greatly effected by past behaviors.    

In terms of business the NHL is not that big, think Exxon, Cargill, Mitsubishi then think big. I remember a big case similar to this going to court for a big ( a really big Co.) Continental Grain pushing to have information locked.... they failed

[GB5]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

JB prior to arriving in Vcr had been scouting for Boston, had attended all the Boston scouting meeting. he was as well appraised of the draft as any other in fact better. He had the views of all the Boston scouts as well as all the Vcr scouts

I thought JB had made a point of stating that he left the Boston playbook behind. It was a point of honor for him. None the less, I acknowledge that his memory cannot be wiped clean when coming to a new team but am fairly positive that he went with the Vancouver scouting reports.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I thought JB had made a point of stating that he left the Boston playbook behind. It was a point of honor for him. None the less, I acknowledge that his memory cannot be wiped clean when coming to a new team but am fairly positive that he went with the Vancouver scouting reports.

Probably on guys he didn't know or didn't have alot of knowledge in.  But for the top picks (1st rounders), I'm pretty sure (my gut feeling, not saying it as a fact) that Benning went with his own instincts/feelings. 

 

OT:  Just noticed your username.  I remember when the Canucks drafted him, I thought the Canucks got one real tough hombre.  The name, playing in the WHL (tons of PIMs lol).  Team Captain of the Pats.  While he wasn't really a great fighter, he never failed to 'answer the bell' when called upon.  Didn't duck anyone (even if it meant being overmatched in a fight).  Never an allstar but had a pretty lengthy respectible NHL career.  You still need these guys of players in your lineup (as well as the "stars").

[dpn1]

20 hours ago, Fred65 said:

JB prior to arriving in Vcr had been scouting for Boston, had attended all the Boston scouting meeting. he was as well appraised of the draft as any other in fact better. He had the views of all the Boston scouts as well as all the Vcr scouts

Jimbo was the Assistant GM in Boston and the head of Scout in Buffalo before that. 

[Canuck Surfer]

On 5/17/2021 at 5:24 AM, Boudrias said:

Seriously, how long does it take to get a statement and conclude this investigation? If she says he was out of line then lay charges. I suspect someone wants to play politics with the situation. 

There are a lot of factors.

 

He could be guilty. Some evidence inadmissible? Which is a real possibility considering a civil case is out there.  The burden of evidence legality not as strict.

 

The girl was young at the time. Those, not yourself, said why not come forward then? A trial can be more trauma than an incident. Understandable... 

 

Still brave to come forward, time delay or no! Some maturation, maybe support surfacing? Made it more possible for her. Or pressure from the reporter???

 

Evidence itself is harder to come by now. You cannot just confiscate a phone. They're long gone? I assume DM's etc. are somewhere out there in digital hell. 

 

 

I could be mistaken.  I believe so far its also a claim of misconduct. Which is serious. Very! Still different than rape. Still did not take no at face value. According to reports?  Who knows what happened... 

[higgyfan]

On 6/2/2021 at 2:25 PM, Fred65 said:

Neither of us know that. But I can't understand why an owner would hire a  guy based on his scouting acumen and then under mine that facet of his knowledge. Plus of course we have this evidence

 

Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube

 

Please note this Jim Benning talking not FA

At the time, JV was considered a good pick in the top 10, so it wouldn't be a stretch for the GM to make a selection that the owner was leaning toward.  It's big business and sometimes that gets in the way of other plans.

 

I think the learning that came from the selection, is a formula of what player characteristics the team wants to stock up on.  JV seems to fall short on a few of these characteristics.

[WeneedLumme]

23 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

At the time, JV was considered a good pick in the top 10, so it wouldn't be a stretch for the GM to make a selection that the owner was leaning toward.  It's big business and sometimes that gets in the way of other plans.

 

I think the learning that came from the selection, is a formula of what player characteristics the team wants to stock up on.  JV seems to fall short on a few of these characteristics.

Yeah, it seems that after JB's first draft, he adjusted the characteristics he focuses on in subsequent drafts to put more weight on character/determination rather than physical tools.

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

At the time, JV was considered a good pick in the top 10, so it wouldn't be a stretch for the GM to make a selection that the owner was leaning toward.  It's big business and sometimes that gets in the way of other plans.

 

I think the learning that came from the selection, is a formula of what player characteristics the team wants to stock up on.  JV seems to fall short on a few of these characteristics.

Craig Button actually had JV rated in the second round

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Fred65 said:

Craig Button actually had JV rated in the second round

I remember that too.  He said Jake had no hockey sense, or some such thing.  

[JM_]

22 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I remember that too.  He said Jake had no hockey sense, or some such thing.  

like you've said, no more dumb dumbs. 

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I remember that too.  He said Jake had no hockey sense, or some such thing.  

Credit where it's due, the man was right

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

Craig Button actually had JV rated in the second round

Yes I know that, but he appears to be the exception regarding Jake.  Button has made blunders as well; all scouts do.

 

That really has no bearing on whether the owner influenced the pick (as a great business investment) or it was solely the GM and his scouting staff.

 

It doesn't matter now.  JV had the skill level to at least make the NHL, but now he may have lost any future opportunities to maintain his status as an NHL player.  At the very least, he will likely never play for his home team again.

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

Craig Button actually had JV rated in the second round

and he had Boeser way up at #9, higher than the other rankings.  If we had used Button's draft lists over the Benning tenure we would have had:

 

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes

In that case we miss on Petterson, but adding Ehlers, Kempe, and Tkachuk instead of Virtanen/McCann/Juolevi more than makes up for it I think.

[Fred65]

19 minutes ago, Provost said:

and he had Boeser way up at #9, higher than the other rankings.  If we had used Button's draft lists over the Benning tenure we would have had:

 

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes

In that case we miss on Petterson, but adding Ehlers, Kempe, and Tkachuk instead of Virtanen/McCann/Juolevi more than makes up for it I think.

For me there's certain people I enjoy listening too. Those that use facts and can explain their decission. I like Ferraro, Button Gilman and Gillis. All very logical and clearly intelligent they do not speak bases on emotion.  As to Glass he is on a stacked team but will be a good player IMO.... 6'3" /210 centre 

 

Strangely enough I was thinking of Juolevi. If Edler returns and Rathbone and Hughes are the other LHD, could you get a 1 st round pick for Juolevi and frankly I really doubt it, maybe a second ... maybe, which puts Juolevi where he should be ranked

Edited June 5, 2021 by Fred65

[Junkyard Dog]

24 minutes ago, Provost said:

and he had Boeser way up at #9, higher than the other rankings.  If we had used Button's draft lists over the Benning tenure we would have had:

 

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes

In that case we miss on Petterson, but adding Ehlers, Kempe, and Tkachuk instead of Virtanen/McCann/Juolevi more than makes up for it I think.

I doubt we're high enough to draft Hughes/Glass/Pod/Hog had we drafted Ehlers/Kempe/Tkachuk. Tkachuk would also be iffy since Ehlers was a 40 point player in 2015-16.

 

in 2016-17 Ehlers had 60 points, Boeser was on pace for also 70 and Tkachuk had 50.

Kempe was a 40 point player in 17-18. 

 

These youngsters made early impacts.

 

2016-17 we would have had Tkachuk/Ehlers/Boeser on the team and would have been a much better team than what we actually had in 2016-17 by an immense margin. 

 

With the youth stepping up early JB would likely made a Miller-type trade much earlier so we probably wouldn't have one of the 2017/18/19 1sts.

 

So safe to say we probably wouldn't be drafting top 10 from 2017 on and miss out of Hughes/Glass/Pod?/Hog?. People would probably be considering that the 'rebuild ended' around that time, years earlier than what we initially thought in real life.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Junkyard Dog

[J-P]

45 minutes ago, Provost said:

and he had Boeser way up at #9, higher than the other rankings.  If we had used Button's draft lists over the Benning tenure we would have had:

 

2014- Ehlers, Kempe

2015 - Boeser (he had him 9th)

2016 - Matthew Tkachuk

2017 - Glass

2018 - Hughes

In that case we miss on Petterson, but adding Ehlers, Kempe, and Tkachuk instead of Virtanen/McCann/Juolevi more than makes up for it I think.

Kempe is a good player but not good enough to tip the scale in a discussion like this.

 

I personally believe nobody will even consider trading EP + OJ for Ehlers + Tkatchuk in a few years, when it matters, but time will tell.