Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[NewbieCanuckFan]

8 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

That's very interesting angle on things.   I did not know that and thanks for clarifying that !!!!

To get a guilty verdict in a criminal case (involving jury), you need all jurists agreeing.  That ain't always easy to do as not everyone sees the same set of facts the same way.  In a civil case (involving jury), all you need is a majority decision.  That generally is often easy to get a majority verdict.

 

Trust me (lol, that line didn't go well for me last night but that's another subject ) as I've been on both (@#$@##%$ I can't get even just 4 numbers on a 649 ticket but the jury summons never fails to get sent to me lol).

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, bree2 said:

i was all for getting rid of Jake and i am glad we did, but after reading this story , i find myself kind of feeling sorry for Jake.  i actually hope a team signs him for the upcoming season, he has not even been charged and who knows if he ever will. i don't like the idea this girl went straight for the money and not the police first.  maybe there is something to Jake being innocent!

Yeah there is something fishy going on.  First Jake and the Police only hear the allegations from anonymous social media sources.  Then the accuser starts a civil lawsuit against Jake for money BEFORE she even contacts the Police in regards to any criminal allegations.  Then the Police are the ones that have to locate and find the accuser in order to get her story about what happened, not the other way around.  Then it gets leaked through the media when there is a court sealing order in place on both parties.  Only the parties have the confidential sealed information and why would Jake leak anything out, which means the accuser is the one who leaked the info to the press.

 

I'm not saying that Jake is totally innocent in all of this and at the end of the day he is responsible for his own actions, but to be honest this whole thing doesn't quite seem right.  Something smells fishy here.  This is not normally how sexual assault cases are carried out and handled.  I want to know more information before I lay any judgement on Jake.  I think there is alot more to this story than has come out and that we know about.  Jake's career in Vancouver is over, but that has alot to do with his non-performance on the ice versus this criminal allegation.  If this is Patrick Kane 2.0 and the accuser walks away from the criminal case and only moves forward with a civil case for the money then I am hoping that Jake can at least try to get his life and career back together and maybe play hockey again somewhere else.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yeah there is something fishy going on.  First Jake and the Police only hear the allegations from anonymous social media sources.  Then the accuser starts a civil lawsuit against Jake for money BEFORE she even contacts the Police in regards to any criminal allegations. 

 

we don't have proof of that. Thats what Jakes rep alleges but we don't know that for a fact. 

 

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Then the Police are the ones that have to locate and find the accuser in order to get her story about what happened, not the other way around. 

Thats their job.

 

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Then it gets leaked through the media when there is a court sealing order in place on both parties.  Only the parties have the confidential sealed information and why would Jake leak anything out, which means the accuser is the one who leaked the info to the press.

 

I'm not saying that Jake is totally innocent in all of this and at the end of the day he is responsible for his own actions, but to be honest this whole thing doesn't quite seem right.  Something smells fishy here.  This is not normally how sexual assault cases are carried out and handled.  I want to know more information before I lay any judgement on Jake.  I think there is alot more to this story than has come out and that we know about.  Jake's career in Vancouver is over, but that has alot to do with his non-performance on the ice versus this criminal allegation.  If this is Patrick Kane 2.0 and the accuser walks away from the criminal case and only moves forward with a civil case for the money then I am hoping that Jake can at least try to get his life and career back together and maybe play hockey again somewhere else.

The fact is EP, none of this tells us enough to draw any conclusions about who's telling the truth. Its hard, but we just have to wait this thing out and let the judge decide. 

[Elias Pettersson]

26 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we don't have proof of that. Thats what Jakes rep alleges but we don't know that for a fact. 

 

Thats their job.

 

The fact is EP, none of this tells us enough to draw any conclusions about who's telling the truth. Its hard, but we just have to wait this thing out and let the judge decide. 

"In fact, a media spokesperson from the Vancouver Police Department indicated on May 5 that the police had reached out to the complainant, rather than the other way around, having learned about the allegations through media coverage".

 

It's not the Police's job to follow Twitter and Facebook looking for potential criminal activities.  And it's not normal for an accuser to file a civil lawsuit before any criminal activity has even been investigated.  Why would you do that when a civil lawsuit is only about money and no criminal charges can be laid?

 

There is much more to this story than we know.  I'm hoping that it all comes out eventually...

[Patel Bure]

I wish Jake all the best for his future but I honestly don’t care about his situation anymore.  What actually happened between him and that girl is completely irrelevant to the Canucks and Canuck fans as I far as I’m concerned.  
 

Hopefully, justice is served in whatever way that manifests.

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

"In fact, a media spokesperson from the Vancouver Police Department indicated on May 5 that the police had reached out to the complainant, rather than the other way around, having learned about the allegations through media coverage".

 

It's not the Police's job to follow Twitter and Facebook looking for potential criminal activities.  And it's not normal for an accuser to file a civil lawsuit before any criminal activity has even been investigated.  Why would you do that when a civil lawsuit is only about money and no criminal charges can be laid?

 

There is much more to this story than we know.  I'm hoping that it all comes out eventually...

if its not their job then why did they reach out? 

 

you're taking what Jakes agent is saying as gospel. Its his job to help Jake, not to give you the full story. 

[RU SERIOUS]

3 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Calling him 'Jake the Ripper' gives people the impression that he is guilty in your mind.  

OMG, I think you're the one that has his mind in the mud and subliminally has him painted as guilty because my reference to "Ripper" is in the context of him ripping down the ice.   You seem to be thinking the unspeakable........which as you said (and i agree with) should not be eluded to - until he's found guilty and sentenced to prison or otherwise.

Edited August 7, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[Elias Pettersson]

42 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

if its not their job then why did they reach out? 

 

you're taking what Jakes agent is saying as gospel. Its his job to help Jake, not to give you the full story. 

Most likely the police reached out because the story went viral and found it’s way into the regular media. As well the Canucks also found out. With a Vancouver Canucks hockey player involved it was pretty hard for the police not to at least investigate the story. 
 

Not taking anything his agent says as gospel.  The alleged assault happened almost 4 years ago and we find out about it through a Twitter post 4 months ago and then a civil lawsuit gets filed before the police even have a chance to start an investigation. Those are facts that we all know. The rest is hidden in sealed court documents. 
 

At the end of the day it’s all moot as he’s no longer with the Canucks. If people wish I guess they can keep following the story. I’d like to at least know how it gets resolved one way or another. So I’ll be watching for updates. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Elias Pettersson

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Most likely the police reached out because the story went viral and found it’s way into the regular media. As well the Canucks also found out. With a Vancouver Canucks hockey player involved it was pretty hard for the police not to at least investigate the story. 
 

Not taking anything his agent says as gospel.  The alleged assault happened almost 4 years ago and we find out about it through a Twitter post 4 months ago and then a civil lawsuit gets filed before the police even have a chance to start an investigation. Those are facts that we all know. The rest is hidden in sealed court documents. 
 

At the end of the day it’s all moot as he’s no longer with the Canucks. If people wish I guess they can keep following the story. I’d like to at least know how it gets resolved one way or another. So I’ll be watching for updates. 

again, you don't know whats "fact" or not. We don't have that knowledge. 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

again, you don't know whats "fact" or not. We don't have that knowledge. 

You’re 100% correct; we don’t have knowledge about this, but we can guess.

This girl meets Jake on the Internet, and she assumes she knows him because he’s a Canuck, he’s on TV, so he’s familiar to her.  So she agrees to meet him.  They meet in the lobby of his hotel.  He is friendly and nice, just like she expected.  When they go to his room, however, his behaviour changes, and he’s aggressive and frightening.  She then realizes he’s a complete stranger, and she’s made a terrible mistake.  This must be a friggin’ nightmare situation for this girl, or any girl.  In a hotel room, alone, with a very aggressive man who is twice your size.  

[Dazzle]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You’re 100% correct; we don’t have knowledge about this, but we can guess.

This girl meets Jake on the Internet, and she assumes she knows him because he’s a Canuck, he’s on TV, so he’s familiar to her.  So she agrees to meet him.  They meet in the lobby of his hotel.  He is friendly and nice, just like she expected.  When they go to his room, however, his behaviour changes, and he’s aggressive and frightening.  She then realizes he’s a complete stranger, and she’s made a terrible mistake.  This must be a friggin’ nightmare situation for this girl, or any girl.  In a hotel room, alone, with a very aggressive man who is twice your size.  

That's one guess. Or we can "guess" and say that everything went fine. The story that we're hearing about now was different than the version that Jake is talking about.

 

We can't be making these guesses and think we'll have a better idea of what's going on. We have NO CLUE what happened in that room. Any guess could be completely wrong to the so-called "facts" of the case.

 

This part of the message isn't meant to be directed at you specifically Alf, but people on social media have been using language such as "abuser", "rapist" etc for someone like Virtanen. It's actually inappropriate to use this language because nothing has been decided/proven.

Just because it makes people feel better to shake their angry fist at an accused doesn't mean it's right to do so.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Dazzle

[Zhukini]

This isn't a case of Jake stealing something from the store where there's cameras that can easily prove him guilty or innocent. 

 

Good for you (yes you), for deciding to stand with Jake. Takes some real balls to continue to side with someone like that. 

 

Doesn't happen to the good guys of the league. Virtanen, Patrick and Evander Kane. Kids keeping some real good company there. 

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, Zhukini said:

This isn't a case of Jake stealing something from the store where there's cameras that can easily prove him guilty or innocent. 

 

Good for you (yes you), for deciding to stand with Jake. Takes some real balls to continue to side with someone like that. 

 

Doesn't happen to the good guys of the league. Virtanen, Patrick and Evander Kane. Kids keeping some real good company there. 

We don't need this kind of language in this thread here. Once you start pointing fingers and making insinuations like this about posters (who you have no clue about), you have proven you are no longer objective.

[guntrix]

This is a classic he said she said case, which is most likely why it’s gone to civil and not criminal (almost zilch chance he gets convicted in a criminal law suit due to almost zero evidence). 
 

But it’s classic CDC to see posters still trying to defend him, even after 8 women have come forward regarding Jake. Lamentable. 

[higgyfan]

On 8/7/2021 at 4:30 PM, RU SERIOUS said:

OMG, I think you're the one that has his mind in the mud and subliminally has him painted as guilty because my reference to "Ripper" is in the context of him ripping down the ice.   You seem to be thinking the unspeakable........which as you said (and i agree with) should not be eluded to - until he's found guilty and sentenced to prison or otherwise.

[A.A.A]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/08/08/advocate-virtanen-sex-assault-civil/

 

Excerpt:

 

“The criminal legal proceedings has been a horrible place to achieve justice for survivors for hundreds of years … and it has a lot to do with well-worn beliefs about sexualized violence,” she said.

 

“It comes down to this idea that men have a right to women’s bodies, in terms of sexuality. It comes down to the idea that women are gold diggers, that they make up stories of sexualized violence. There’s a whole range of ways in which survivors are victim-blamed when they speak their experience. And these are well-worn tropes, well-established myths and stereotypes.”

[Alflives]

6 hours ago, guntrix said:

This is a classic he said she said case, which is most likely why it’s gone to civil and not criminal (almost zilch chance he gets convicted in a criminal law suit due to almost zero evidence). 
 

But it’s classic CDC to see posters still trying to defend him, even after 8 women have come forward regarding Jake. Lamentable. 

I keep reading here about more women coming forward about Jake, but I can’t find any reporting on this.  Do you have a link to some reporting on these 8 women?  

[guntrix]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I keep reading here about more women coming forward about Jake, but I can’t find any reporting on this.  Do you have a link to some reporting on these 8 women?  

What I don’t understand is why people want regurgitations from second-hand sources like The Province and other news sources when SurvivorStoriesProject - the original source that leaked the first testimonial, broke the first story, and obtained first-hand permission from the victims - has proven to be in direct contact with the victims and thus a much more credible source. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, guntrix said:

What I don’t understand is why people want regurgitations from second-hand sources like The Province and other news sources when SurvivorStoriesProject - the original source that leaked the first testimonial, broke the first story, and obtained first-hand permission from the victims - has proven to be in direct contact with the victims and thus a much more credible source. 

Sorry, but I don’t understand.  So the  person to first publish the first women’s accusations has published accusations from 8 more women?  Can you link that?  How do we find it?  I’d like to read it?  

[guntrix]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Sorry, but I don’t understand.  So the  person to first publish the first women’s accusations has published accusations from 8 more women?  Can you link that?  How do we find it?  I’d like to read it?  

Ah, now I understand. You didn’t see the post.  Here it is: