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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


avelanch

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I'm thinking he meant our players instantly become the property of this farm team. Sorta like how soccer teams sign players young and bring them through their system all the way up.

Which of course isn't the case so it still doesn't make sense. It's not like his example is that way either, where all Bruins draft picks don't suddenly become property of the Oshawa Generals.

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Calgary is definitely not the right place for Virtanen. He has all the tools but there are areas to his game that are unrefined. In Calgary, it just seems like the coaching staff is complacent and don't care about the little things Jake do wrong. I agree with DeNiro, he needs to learn how to play the right way in Utica.

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Which of course isn't the case so it still doesn't make sense. It's not like his example is that way either, where all Bruins draft picks don't suddenly become property of the Oshawa Generals.

From reading it that's exactly what I took from it, especially the part where he mentions a vancouver team full of canucks prospects. Maybe I'm reading it terribly wrong but that seems what he meant to me. And I don't mean it as in the canucks are signing 13 year olds, I meant it was similar in the way the organization has total control over the player.

Bottom line, it was a purely hypothetical suggestion (it seems) so there's no need to shoot it down with so much disdain Elvis.

Edited by Wild Sean Monahan
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If the draft was held one year later (thus the 2014 draft class would be drafted this spring) does everyone think that Virtanen still gets picked 6th by the Canucks? I doubt it, but hope it works out.I

(Full disclosure, I was/am a big Virtanen fan. Going into the draft last year he was the guy I wanted the Canucks to draft. However, I am a bigger fan of pushing the draft back one year).

I agree with Laughs, I think he might go 5th if there was a redraft. Dal Cole needs to work on his skating. Jakes skating is sublime.

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Virtanen on the ice for all 3 goals against?

He's gotta battle harder.

Can't say I'm impressed with his game today.

Worst game I have seen him play. Slow with the puck, couldn't stick handle, bad passes at the offensive blueline. Lazy backcheck on a goal.

I think he'd be better served on the second unit PP. Everything on the first unit goes through Tambellini.

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You guys are aware it's a jake virtannen issue, not the coaching staff right ???? Jake virtannen with a -3 has nothing to do with the coach or system. Calgar hitmen are probably the best whl team the past 60 days, one of the best whl teams out there if anything it's jake Virtannen that needs to turn his game around , not sending him to a different team or league. If some of you guys think that's the way its , then it's epic failure, because he needs to be a very good player at the junior level before he can be good at the ahl or nhl or whatever. So stop finding excuses to back up his struggles.

Now I think we have yet to see the best of him. He will be back in the dub next year and play very well. Let's hope he doesent start next game on the 3rd line.

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You guys are aware it's a jake virtannen issue, not the coaching staff right ???? Jake virtannen with a -3 has nothing to do with the coach or system. Calgar hitmen are probably the best whl team the past 60 days, one of the best whl teams out there if anything it's jake Virtannen that needs to turn his game around , not sending him to a different team or league. If some of you guys think that's the way its , then it's epic failure, because he needs to be a very good player at the junior level before he can be good at the ahl or nhl or whatever. So stop finding excuses to back up his struggles.

Now I think we have yet to see the best of him. He will be back in the dub next year and play very well. Let's hope he doesent start next game on the 3rd line.

That's what people use, excuses, when they dont want to admit our prospects aren't perfect. "It's never the prospect's fault, it was the development". We have too many of those excuses.

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It might not be the worst thing to have the Hitmen get upset by the Ice.

I'd like to see Green work with Virtanen on his two way game. Based on what I've seen out of Calgary's system. this is probably not the best place for him to improve that aspect.

I think that word is praised way too much and holds too much value. Virtanen is "never" going to be a 2-way player, and nor should he really. His defensive awareness is never going to be that of a Burrows, but I agree he needs to learn some thing. He needs to be more engaged without the puck and he also needs to make better decisions with the puck.

The knock on his hockey IQ was on his playmaking, but also what I mentioned above: Awareness way from puck (both offensively and defensively) and his decisions when he has it (from what I hear, he's a turnover machine).

I'm not particularly fond of our farm team preaching defence only because it very easy to teach the offence out of young offensive minds. I'd rather it be defensively conscious so they can work on their strengths. People always said that: "A good defence makes for good offence" but it could also be argued for the other way around. You dominate offensively, you never have to play defence. The Sedins would be an example of that

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That's what people use, excuses, when they dont want to admit our prospects aren't perfect. "It's never the prospect's fault, it was the development". We have too many of those excuses.

You know there's a difference between how Jake played last night and how he's played all year, right? He played poorly last night, most people have said that. At the same time, people look at his PPG and assume he has played "poorly" all season when that isn't the case. Jake *has* been underutilizes by his coach for most of the year, despite a strong per 60 scoring rate and effective physical and defensive play. Those "excuses" are attempts to give context to posters who come into this thread and lose their **** when they see his simple PPG.

They are two separate issues.

Edited by uselessstats
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I remember hearing about how NHL teams owned junior teams (e.g., Oshawa Generals - Bruins; Montreal Jr. Canadiens - Habs; Ste. Catharines Black Hawks - Chicago) where they would groom their 16 to 20 year old players before they became pros, either in the NHL or another affiliated pro league.

In some ways, this would actually be a good way to develop your CHL amateur picks. Imagine a team called the Vancouver Junior Canucks with a roster filled with Jake Virtanen, Jared McCann, Cole Cassels, Jordan Subban, Miles Liberati, Mackenze Stewart, Kyle Petit, Evan McEneny, Ashton Sautner playing together and learning the Canucks system as 18 to 20 year olds.

I realize that this would never happen because of independent ownership of junior franchises and whole bunch of other reasons, but it'd be pretty cool to see all our CHL and tier 2 CHL players on one team learning the Canucks brand of hockey.

That doesn't make sense. How would such a team trade for all our prospects so we can develop them? We wouldn't even know they were our prospects until they were 18 or so, and then they'd only have 1 or 2 more seasons in junior.

He was reminiscing about the days before the expansion of 1967. Before that NHL teams signed rep players from peewee and owned their rights forever after. The NHL teams also ran major junior franchises-I remember watching Boston's two OHL franchises, Niagra Falls Flyers and Oshawa Generals, play the old OHL Toronto Marlies which were run by the Leafs.

As bigbadcanucks said, it wouldn't happen today.

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If there was a redraft, Jake would probably go around 15th.

That said, he is still an awesome prospect! Most players picked in the top 10 would of course drop.

Looking at tools, potential, and production Jake had two for certain. At the draft his point total was great but 45 goals in 71 games is VERY solid, plus being one of the youngest in the draft. He also lead his team by 10. This year his goal totals are WAY down.

While junior production is somewhat indicative of skills and potential it can be completely meaningless. Dane Fox for example. Even worse is Mitch Holmberg - 118 points including 62 goals in the WHL and yet he has only 6 goals 14 assists in 34 games in the ECHL. AHL production is a much better measure (when prospects get there).

Ekblad is the undisputed #1 at this point.

Risers: #2 would have to go to David Pastrnak. Ho hum production in the second division Swedish league yet he absolutely killed it in the AHL and is doing very well in the NHL.

Anthony DeAngelo had good numbers on a bad team. Once he got traded to a contender his stats blew out of the stratosphere. This does't mean he will come into the NHL as a 50 point defenseman (like Ellis) but I think he will eventually be a good offensive contribute from the backend (like Ellis this season) .

Jared McCann had the tools, potential, but his production wasn't amazing. Now he has the production (not to mention he is a beast defensively). I am a huge fan of Virtanen, but at this stage I would put him on par with McCann in terms of value perhaps even a bit lower.

Christian Dvorak was an incredible pick. To be honest if we selected him in even the third round last year I would have shaken my head. Below average size, and only 14 points in 33 games and injuries. He has blown it out of the water this year with 109 points.

Dylan Larkin, another steal for the Red Wings scouting staff.

Fall: Haydn Fleury. Huge drops in production, for an offensive dman go from 46 points in his draft year down to 28 is alarming.

Edited by canucklehead44
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I agree with Laughs, I think he might go 5th if there was a redraft. Dal Cole needs to work on his skating. Jakes skating is sublime.

You're crazy. At the very least at this point in their development Nylander and Ehlers have surpassed him.

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Watched the game last night. Virtanen definitely has ice presence. The few games I have watched Virtanen has not overly impressed. Many on here were assuming he would follow Horvat to the Canucks. His defense is no where near Horvat. Only based on observation but the Hitman seem to be built around their 20 year olds.

Virtanen is young and being effective defensively is not inherent it has to be coached. Virtanen plays on one line and what I saw last night was the whole roster in a bit of confusion. Will watch the next game with interest.

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I think that word is praised way too much and holds too much value. Virtanen is "never" going to be a 2-way player, and nor should he really. His defensive awareness is never going to be that of a Burrows, but I agree he needs to learn some thing. He needs to be more engaged without the puck and he also needs to make better decisions with the puck.

Never said he was going to be a two way player, I said he needs to work on his two way game.

Every player that makes the NHL needs some sort of defensive awareness and ability. Right now Virtanen's game is lacking quite a bit in that department. He needs to be way more involved in the play.

Green can help him with that. He's already made good progress with Jensen and Shinkaruk in that department.

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I think what happens with a lot of offensively gifted players once they are drafted is that they are told that in order to make the step to the NHL, they will have to improve the defensive side of their game.

It is common knowledge that offense is innate and that defense can be taught.

So we see their offensive numbers go down the year following the draft. Not a problem.

Edited by Crabcakes
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Guest Dasein

Worst game I have seen him play. Slow with the puck, couldn't stick handle, bad passes at the offensive blueline. Lazy backcheck on a goal.

I think he'd be better served on the second unit PP. Everything on the first unit goes through Tambellini.

Why would that be a bad thing? Virtanen is never going to be a PP QB - he's the trigger man

That's like saying Vrbata should be on the 2nd unit because everything on the 1st unit goes through Henrik Sedin...

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  • -Vintage Canuck- changed the title to Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW
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