JamesB Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Lol this thread is starting to sound like the Horvat thread last year after the Memorial cup and WJC. Whaa guy cant score,whaa whats wrong with him, whaa should have picked somebody else..friggin laughable. I think the situation is very different. Horvat was always a strong defensive prospect. Many people (including me) thought he would not be ready this year. But he always projected as top shutdown/PK/two-way guy. Virtanen is a bit different. His game is offense. So if he is not scoring it is a concern, especially given his skills (one the best skaters in the CHL and one of the best shots and good size and strength). But other people have said that he looks dangerous on the ice and is unlucky not to have picked up more points. If so, then we should not worry too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I said a couple of times McCan production towards the end of the season was because he was playing if better players. But that still doesnt take away the fact he is a 2-way centre meaning offense a nice bonus. Ritchie IMO is going to bust Actually, with McCann, defence is a nice bonus. Having read the various scouting reports on McCann, I think that his increased scoring is more of a surprise than his excellent defensive play. He was always regarded as an excellent shutdown center. But now is projecting more like top 6 player at the NHL level (although he still has a ways to go). But, being honest, I think I have McCann slightly ahead of Virtanen on my personal prospect ranking right now. He really seems to have a complete game. He's a lot better off playing, and for now that is in Calgary. He won't play every game in Utica, it will be hard for him to even draw into the lineup. Are they televising any of this seriez? Can he go to Utica if they are ousted? Virtanen can go to Utica if Calgary is eliminated in the WHL playoffs. But I agree that it is not obvious he can crack the line-up. Travis Green will have absolutely no interest in a playing a guy in the playoff who cannot play disciplined hockey, and Virtanen is the opposite of disciplined. Green will also not want to upset the chemistry on Utica. No way Virtanen cracks to the top two lines over Baertschi, Conacher, Shinkaruk, DeFazio and Grenier on the wing. And he does not have the defensive ability or the discipline to play on the wing in the bottom 6 over guys like Gaunce, Archibald, and Bancks. Even Jensen is having a hard time cracking the line-up (although I don't know if he is injured). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 This is just common sense, but only just occurred to me today for some reason. Imagine Cassels and Virtanen together. A guy used to feeding Dal Colle one timers and a guy who is desperate for a playmaker who can set him up/ spring him. Drool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Hoping his team gets bounced. He'd be a lot better off in Utica he won't get any games with Utica. The only thing he gets is off ice mentoring sessions since he can't really play, he also won't be able to even practice with the team, his only option is to be with the Canucks, which he can only practice, but playing more games is more important right. The best for him? Play in Calgary and turn it around for himself. you know what, some of you Canuck fans need to fridging stop blaming his coach or whatever it is with his deficiencies. It's not the coach for crying out loud, it's himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I still have a Nischuskin boner You should probably give it back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorvat Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Virtanen is playing better than he was on his February/March cold streaks, but his coach bounces him from line-to-line waaay to much for my liking. All this does is ensure he fails to develop chemistry with linemates and adds to the frustration you can see in his game. The Flames are paying the hitmen to hurt his development... Let the conspiracy begin... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorvat Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 You should probably give it back. Ahahahaha i was thinking the exact same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 he won't get any games with Utica. The only thing he gets is off ice mentoring sessions since he can't really play, he also won't be able to even practice with the team, his only option is to be with the Canucks, which he can only practice, but playing more games is more important right. The best for him? Play in Calgary and turn it around for himself. you know what, some of you Canuck fans need to fridging stop blaming his coach or whatever it is with his deficiencies. It's not the coach for crying out loud, it's himself! Lol. What? You mean his coach, the older players he plays with and his off season surgery aren't to blame? Blasphemy. Hes obviously ready for the NHL Once all those go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckin Kingsly Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 he's fridging up to 8 pim's, although Medicine Hate didn't score on those powerplays, is has given them enough momentum to make it 5-4 for crying out loud. I will be surprised if he's not scratched next game win or lose. Kids a loose canon. I can't imagine him doing much better with the Vancouver Canucks.Haha your a joke man. I'd be surprised if I have ever agreed with any of your posts after reading that. And I can't imagine how you can look into the future and know how jake is going to progress. Now I'm not saying that he is a shoe in for 30 goals every year in the show, I'm saying lets give the kid sometime to grow before we label him anything. I'm so sick and tired of this whole salivating over our prospects when they're on a hot streak, and lambasting them and calling them busts when they aren't. Kids 18 years old. And yes the penalties and discipline are cause for concern. But as stated above the ticy tac penalties in the chl are ridiculous. Shinkaruk for example it wasn't long ago when most everyone were labeling him a bust... now he's hot and were all in love. Ive said all along give hunter time, just like I am saying for jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Lol this thread is starting to sound like the Horvat thread last year after the Memorial cup and WJC. Whaa guy cant score,whaa whats wrong with him, whaa should have picked somebody else..friggin laughable. 1. Different expectations - Horvat is a 2-way shutdown C while Virtanen is supposed to be a top 6 scoring RW 2. Yet Horvat outproduced Virtanen in his draft+1 year Hence the concern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) 1. Different expectations - Horvat is a 2-way shutdown C while Virtanen is supposed to be a top 6 scoring RW 2. Yet Horvat outproduced Virtanen in his draft+1 year Hence the concern In fairness, Horvat played in the typically higher scoring OHL vs WHL. He also IMO played on a better team. Cold statistics don't paint much of a picture when lacking context Edited April 15, 2015 by J.R. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) In fairness, Horvat played in the typically higher scoring OHL vs WHL. He also IMO played on a better team. Cold statistics don't paint much of a picture when lacking context Come on.. This year there were 5246 goals scored in the WHL (22 teams) = 238.45 per team vs 4766 goals scored in the OHL (20 teams) = 238.3 per team Horvat's Knights were bounced in the 2nd round - Virtanen's Hitmen are currently in the 2nd round There's your context Edited April 15, 2015 by Dasein 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 1. Different expectations - Horvat is a 2-way shutdown C while Virtanen is supposed to be a top 6 scoring RW 2. Yet Horvat outproduced Virtanen in his draft+1 year Hence the concern The concern is a tad premature, Virtanen has all the ingredients to be a top 6 RW speed, shot, physicality, NHL ready body. Btw weren't you one of the guys who had doubt's about Horvat being NHL ready and should have been sent back to junior? Maybe everybody should wait for next years training camp and preseason to get a better read on Virtanen, i think he is going to surpise a few people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 The concern is a tad premature, Virtanen has all the ingredients to be a top 6 RW speed, shot, physicality, NHL ready body. Btw weren't you one of the guys who had doubt's about Horvat being NHL ready and should have been sent back to junior? Maybe everybody should wait for next years training camp and preseason to get a better read on Virtanen, i think he is going to surpise a few people. Premature how? It's not like I'm not calling him a bust He has all the ingredients but hasn't shown it in his draft+1 year. Can he bounce back? Yes, he's still only 18. Has this season been a disappointment? Yes, and that is what my concern is based upon Just calling it like it is 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snizzle_ Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Premature how? It's not like I'm not calling him a bust He has all the ingredients but hasn't shown it in his draft+1 year. Can he bounce back? Yes, he's still only 18. Has this season been a disappointment? Yes, and that is what my concern is based upon Just calling it like it is Completely agree, people are blinded by the kid's skill or are just watching stats. You need to put things into perspective, and accounting for everything this season, he's had a very up and down season with his bright spot being the World Juniors. That's encouraging that he can elevate his game when the skill level is higher, but not producing consistently in your junior league says something. Someone posted a JV 14-15 Highlight video. It lasted just under 3 minutes. He had some amazing plays, but in those highlights there were also parts where he just couldn't finish. I'm expecting big things from him the rest of the way and next season (most likely in junior). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Basically, the concern about Horvat is now eliminated, so now we have to be concerned about Virtanen. Personally, I see no cause for concern. Virtanen is going to be a special player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 He'd be better off in Utica. I'm going to keep saying it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Come on.. This year there were 5246 goals scored in the WHL (22 teams) = 238.45 per team vs 4766 goals scored in the OHL (20 teams) = 238.3 per team Horvat's Knights were bounced in the 2nd round - Virtanen's Hitmen are currently in the 2nd round There's your context Unfortunately that doesn't actually work. WHL plays 72 games per season for 22 teams. The OHL has 20 teams playing a 68 game schedule. For the WHL: 5246 goals is divided by 1584 games (72x22) giving a goals per game of: 3.31 For the OHL: 4766 goals is divided by 1360 (68x 20) giving a goals per game of: 3.50 The OHL plays 224 fewer games but puts up a higher avg of goals per game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I should add to that, it reads goals per game per team, as the 22 or 20 is factored in the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately that doesn't actually work. WHL plays 72 games per season for 22 teams. The OHL has 20 teams playing a 68 game schedule. For the WHL: 5246 goals is divided by 1584 games (72x22) giving a goals per game of: 3.31 For the OHL: 4766 goals is divided by 1360 (68x 20) giving a goals per game of: 3.50 The OHL plays 224 fewer games but puts up a higher avg of goals per game. Danke Ossi Also didn't touch on that Horvat had a better team either (or their different usage, TOI etc). In short, doing a direct stats only comparison is not going to give you anything resembling a clear picture. Virtanen's merely having a good, not great year. I see little cause for concern at this point. Edited April 15, 2015 by J.R. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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