JamesB Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) in the long run, we will know why he is ranked higher then Nylander and Ehlers despite those 2 having superior offence. Right now, to be honest, in this particular series, and even thinking of the Boston Series, a guy like Jake Virtannen will be more beneficial then a player like Nikolah Ehlers. Even in THIS series, a guy like Virtannen will probably be more beneficial right now then someone like Nylander or Ehlers. He will be a good player for us down the road. Even if Ehlers puts up more points then Virtannen, I think what he brings outside of points of production, makes up for it. HIm being a physical player can change the game too. Opposition players will play their game differently for example if he's on the ice. It really helps to have guys like Virtannen on your team running guys hard into the boards. I hope this turns out to be right, but obviously it is too early to make the call. It is nice to have guys who can contribute to the physical game and the speed game and help to wear down opposing teams. But the rarest and most important skill is the ability to put points on the board. That is why the big scorers get paid a lot even if they do not contribute much to the physical game (Sedins, Crosby, Datsuyk, Patrick Kane, etc.) Guys who play a tough hard-nosed and fast game are helpful players, but they are a lot more common and a lot less valuable and that is why they get paid a lot less. Right now Nylander looks like he could be a very good offensive player. At age 18 (no Sam Bennett jokes please) he is doing very well in the AHL. Ehlers is lighting up the QMJHL, but that is less meaningful. Personally I would take Nylander over Virtanen right now. The problem with Virtanen is that with his skating ability (maybe the best in the WHL) and shot (one of the best in the WHL) and his size and strength, he should be scoring more. It looks like he does not have the "hockey IQ" that you need to be a big scorer in the NHL. And, let's face it, when you have the #6 overall pick you need to get a future 1st liner. Right now, I would say Virtanen projects more like a high energy 3rd liner, maybe a borderline 2nd liner. Like I said, I hope I am underestimating him. Edited April 25, 2015 by JamesB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I'm personally hoping for: Burrows, Horvat, Hansen Or outside chance of: Hansen, Horvat, Virtanen That would be a great line, still some offensive upside but without losing any of the defensive This was quite evident in Game 5 last night. Horvat was in high gear, and looked good with Higgins. That being said, he set him up numerous times only to have Higgins flub, like Kassian with Richardson the year before. Next year we should see Horvat with some truly skilled wingers like a Baertschi or Vrbata and offense will take a step up. Exactly, we should put him in the position where he can succeed and contribute to the team the most. Next year at least I'd like to see him with some more offensively gifted wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessstats Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I hope this turns out to be right, but obviously it is too early to make the call. It is nice to have guys who can contribute to the physical game and the speed game and help to wear down opposing teams. But the rarest and most important skill is the ability to put points on the board. That is why the big scorers get paid a lot even if they do not contribute much to the physical game (Sedins, Crosby, Datsuyk, Patrick Kane, etc.) Guys who play a tough hard-nosed and fast game are helpful players, but they are a lot more common and a lot less valuable and that is why they get paid a lot less. Right now Nylander looks like he could be a very good offensive player. At age 18 (no Sam Bennett jokes please) he is doing very well in the AHL. Ehlers is lighting up the QMJHL, but that is less meaningful. Personally I would take Nylander over Virtanen right now. The problem with Virtanen is that with his skating ability (maybe the best in the WHL) and shot (one of the best in the WHL) and his size and strength, he should be scoring more. It looks like he does not have the "hockey IQ" that you need to be a big scorer in the NHL. And, let's face it, when you have the #6 overall pick you need to get a future 1st liner. Right now, I would say Virtanen projects more like a high energy 3rd liner, maybe a borderline 2nd liner. Like I said, I hope I am underestimating him. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I think prognostications like "Jake is looking like an energy 3rd liner" are quite unfounded. First of all no one looks like anything when they are 18 and still in junior. So much developing to still do, not to mention the massive change in speed and physicality once you reach the NHL. Beyond that, one really needs to watch Jake play to understand why his game looks so much like it will work in the NHL. Very direct player who gets around so quickly and easily. Good (not elite) puck handling and strong, fast shot (though did look better last year tbh). Seeks out physical contact and doesn't shy away in the least (see Nylander). That said, Jake isn't a play driver. He can gain the blue line quite easily but he needs someone to give and go with. Watching Brandon tonight their forwards knew exactly where to go on the ice because someone was always delivering the puck. I watch Calgary and they haven't got a playmaker on the entire team. Tambellini is a shooter, as is Rankin, Lang, etc. Despite their record they aren't an overly skilled team up front and I think that hurts Jake's numbers a fair bit. If he had a centre like Petan, Reinhart, Merkely, or even Hawryluk where he could develop some real chemistry with I think you'd see a lot of those so-called "IQ" issues disappear. Because from the games I've watched in the playoffs so far, Jake certainly doesn't suffer from not seeing the ice or reading the game well. He *is* a shooter so he does pass up some opportunities to move the puck - he's no Hank Sedin - but that is what you want in a goal scoring winger. His problem is he doesn't know where to go with his linemates as numerous times I see him in soft ice and the forward doesn't see him. I'd like to see Jake with NHL quality linemates before concluding what his ultimate NHL upside is. IMO he's easily got top 6 upside though I expect it will take him a few years to reach that level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c00kies Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Sorry to hear that but glad you get to take in a game live. Let us know how he did. It's not that bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I hope this turns out to be right, but obviously it is too early to make the call. It is nice to have guys who can contribute to the physical game and the speed game and help to wear down opposing teams. But the rarest and most important skill is the ability to put points on the board. That is why the big scorers get paid a lot even if they do not contribute much to the physical game (Sedins, Crosby, Datsuyk, Patrick Kane, etc.) Guys who play a tough hard-nosed and fast game are helpful players, but they are a lot more common and a lot less valuable and that is why they get paid a lot less. Right now Nylander looks like he could be a very good offensive player. At age 18 (no Sam Bennett jokes please) he is doing very well in the AHL. Ehlers is lighting up the QMJHL, but that is less meaningful. Personally I would take Nylander over Virtanen right now. The problem with Virtanen is that with his skating ability (maybe the best in the WHL) and shot (one of the best in the WHL) and his size and strength, he should be scoring more. It looks like he does not have the "hockey IQ" that you need to be a big scorer in the NHL. And, let's face it, when you have the #6 overall pick you need to get a future 1st liner. Right now, I would say Virtanen projects more like a high energy 3rd liner, maybe a borderline 2nd liner. Like I said, I hope I am underestimating him. In the regular season maybe. When it comes down to a hard hitting western conference series, I want a western Canadian, hometown boy pouring his cuts out on the ice. He will take the puck to the middle of the ice and drive to the net. We need a guy like that more than any other type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winthecup Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 That said, Jake isn't a play driver. He can gain the blue line quite easily but he needs someone to give and go with. Watching Brandon tonight their forwards knew exactly where to go on the ice because someone was always delivering the puck. I watch Calgary and they haven't got a playmaker on the entire team. Tambellini is a shooter, as is Rankin, Lang, etc. Despite their record they aren't an overly skilled team up front and I think that hurts Jake's numbers a fair bit. If he had a centre like Petan, Reinhart, Merkely, or even Hawryluk where he could develop some real chemistry with I think you'd see a lot of those so-called "IQ" issues disappear. Because from the games I've watched in the playoffs so far, Jake certainly doesn't suffer from not seeing the ice or reading the game well. He *is* a shooter so he does pass up some opportunities to move the puck - he's no Hank Sedin - but that is what you want in a goal scoring winger. His problem is he doesn't know where to go with his linemates as numerous times I see him in soft ice and the forward doesn't see him. I'd like to see Jake with NHL quality linemates before concluding what his ultimate NHL upside is. IMO he's easily got top 6 upside though I expect it will take him a few years to reach that level. hmmmm....based on that assesment, if Virtnanen makes the NHL next year (i dont think he will), he will make it because he was put with the Sedins and found some chemistry ala Anson Carter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I think prognostications like "Jake is looking like an energy 3rd liner" are quite unfounded. First of all no one looks like anything when they are 18 and still in junior. So much developing to still do, not to mention the massive change in speed and physicality once you reach the NHL. Beyond that, one really needs to watch Jake play to understand why his game looks so much like it will work in the NHL. Very direct player who gets around so quickly and easily. Good (not elite) puck handling and strong, fast shot (though did look better last year tbh). Seeks out physical contact and doesn't shy away in the least (see Nylander). That said, Jake isn't a play driver. He can gain the blue line quite easily but he needs someone to give and go with. Watching Brandon tonight their forwards knew exactly where to go on the ice because someone was always delivering the puck. I watch Calgary and they haven't got a playmaker on the entire team. Tambellini is a shooter, as is Rankin, Lang, etc. Despite their record they aren't an overly skilled team up front and I think that hurts Jake's numbers a fair bit. If he had a centre like Petan, Reinhart, Merkely, or even Hawryluk where he could develop some real chemistry with I think you'd see a lot of those so-called "IQ" issues disappear. Because from the games I've watched in the playoffs so far, Jake certainly doesn't suffer from not seeing the ice or reading the game well. He *is* a shooter so he does pass up some opportunities to move the puck - he's no Hank Sedin - but that is what you want in a goal scoring winger. His problem is he doesn't know where to go with his linemates as numerous times I see him in soft ice and the forward doesn't see him. I'd like to see Jake with NHL quality linemates before concluding what his ultimate NHL upside is. IMO he's easily got top 6 upside though I expect it will take him a few years to reach that level.Bingo. Thanks for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckin Kingsly Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Gif of goal? Any updates of how his overall game was yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Jake Virtanen has been suspended by the WHL for a hit to the head of an opposing player. Length tbd. Coach Mark French also fined $1,000 after being ejected from game 1. These teams hate each other a wee bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 That hit wasn't good. Although, I generally don't like high hits in open ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Crosby Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 That hit wasn't good. Although, I generally don't like high hits in open ice. I find open ice hits exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I find open ice hits exciting. this i like. what virtanen did, i don't like. just all hits like that. it's a preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Not to be pro virtanen or anything but with the emergence of shinkaruk wouldn't that have made nylander redundant? I think shinkaruk can be a better pro than nylander.... IMO shink has more heart and tenacity Better still that's two players who have a grudge against Calgary. That can't hurt at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Anyone got a vid of the hit that got Jake suspended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 what virtanen did, i don't like. just all hits like that. it's a preference. So you didn't like Mitchell levelling Toews a few years back? Looks like a carbon copy of that hit And how about this one? A little different as Weber steps up rather than come from the blind side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Anyone got a vid of the hit that got Jake suspended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stexx Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 yeah im not sure thats a suspendable hit in the NHL, he started very low and extended through his legs without leaving his feet. principle point of contact looked like it was more chest and then rode up to his head. No clue how he got a charging penalty for that. Hard to tell from the video though the quality isnt great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stexx Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) fat.gfycat.com/CreativeRightGhostshrimp.webm Edited April 25, 2015 by stexx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Yeah, looked straight to his chest, perhaps followed through to the chin. Would be a shame to see hits like that taken out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stexx Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Yeah, looked straight to his chest, perhaps followed through to the chin. Would be a shame to see hits like that taken out of the game. that was my thought, although i do understand it from the CHL/WHL as they are kids and they need to do all they can to eliminate head injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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