nergish Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Jumping in here. To the people complaining about his hockey IQ, what about it is concerning to you? It's literal nonsense. Jake isn't even a meat n potatoes player, despite being a prototypical big Canadian forward. He's far quicker, more energetic, and has an elite level snap shot. He's not a thinking man's player, but he's not the kind of player that goes unnoticed in the ice either. Don't let one guy's opinion sway you. The kid has come back stronger, leaner, and wants to make an impact. I realize he's just trying to temper expectations, but Jake is a beauty, he doesn't need to put up huge numbers to make an impact. As soon as he steps on the ice we're a different team. That's more than enough to get excited about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessstats Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Im not complaining about his IQ, but it looks like the Kesler syndrome where it's shoot from anywhere when there are better plays to be made, and his so-so board play,which as mentioned above. If you watched the world juniors last year, as fun as it was to watch Jake, it was equally as frustrating, one play in particular where there were literally two teammates open alone in front of the net, and Jake decided to take a horribly angled shot at the side of the net I remember that play and as frustrating as it was I think posters let it disproportionately effect their projection of Jake. It was one play. He also made numerous "correct" plays in similar situations in that same tournament. People need to understand that a "shoot first" mentality is not the same as "low IQ". Kesler was very "shoot first" from 2011 on yet prior to that he had a 50 assist season. "Mentality" and "IQ" are not identical. One is a tendency which may fluctuate and change based on a player's circumstances, the other is a liability or limitation on their potential upside. I don't think people are able to accurately separate Jake's "IQ" from his "tendencies", especially when they rely on isolated instances (as you have done) to form their views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tambellini's Wrist Shot Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Jamie Benns career best WHL goals was 46 in his draft +2 year, Getzlaf career best was 29, Kane had 48 Perry had 47 for the knights in his draft +2 year. Big Guys who score 45+ Goals are not common in Junior, especially in their draft year. Guys who follow that up with 21 goal season are also uncommon so it's really difficult to project Jake based on stats. You've also got guys like Sean Monahan who had a career best 33 goals in the OHL and Brendan Gaunce who is 6 months older also had 33 goals in an OHL season. Does that mean Gaunce can score 30 goals in the NHL like Monahan, maybe not, but we can't assume that Jake can't score 40, becuase he has scored more than that in a season. Seguin had 48 his draft year too Biggest concern for me is that he didn't make a jump in his development last year. Didn't increase his point totals, and put up a measley 1 point in 10 games played in Utica. Should see more offense out of a 6th overall pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Biggest concern for me is that he didn't make a jump in his development last year. Didn't increase his point totals, and put up a measley 1 point in 10 games played in Utica. Should see more offense out of a 6th overall pick Of courese there are negatives to pull out of his season, but there are also positives too. Made the WJC as a 18 year old Succseffully recovered from shoulder surgery made the transition to pro hockey without looking out of place Won a gold medal became a more adept passer and playmaker in general Increased his points per game Finished +2 with 11shots in 10 AHL playoff games which is close to an NHL compete level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessstats Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Biggest concern for me is that he didn't make a jump in his development last year. Didn't increase his point totals, and put up a measley 1 point in 10 games played in Utica. Should see more offense out of a 6th overall pick. Actually he looked pretty good in his 10 AHL games, just couldn't finish. Pretty impressive that an 18 yo could even crack the line up that late in the AHL playoffs. I came away impressed more than disappointed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) Biggest concern for me is that he didn't make a jump in his development last year. Didn't increase his point totals, and put up a measley 1 point in 10 games played in Utica. Should see more offense out of a 6th overall pick. I generally agree. Sure people can say he was coming off an injury ( however an argument could be made that his point total in his draft year was artificially low because he played with a bad shoulder for half the season and thus he should have rebounded even more in his +1 season). That being said I expected him to put up more points in the WHL. He looked good on Utica, but once again I would have liked to see a little more offense. It's not really a big deal considering he was one of the youngest in his draft class, but I think it is a stretch and probably just subjective homerism to say that he had a good developmental year last season. Edited September 6, 2015 by baumerman77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tambellini's Wrist Shot Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I generally agree. Sure people can say he was coming off an injury ( however an argument could be made that his point total in his draft year was artificially low because he played with a bad shoulder for half the season and thus he should have rebounded even more in his +1 season). That being said I expected him to put up more points in the WHL. He looked good on Utica, but once again I would have liked to see a little more offense. It's not really a big deal considering he was one of the youngest in his draft class, but I think it is a stretch and probably just subjective homerism to say that he had a good developmental year last season. I'm really interested to see how he looks in the Young Stars tourney. He's slimmed down a lot so he should be even faster than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I would like you to show me a 40 goal scoring, first line winger that doesn't have elite offensive awareness/hockey IQ. James Neal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I would like you to show me a 40 goal scoring, first line winger that doesn't have elite offensive awareness/hockey IQ. Kessel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tambellini's Wrist Shot Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 James Neal? A pylon could have gotten 40 goals playing an entire season with Evgeni Malkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tambellini's Wrist Shot Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Kessel? Kessel does have elite offensive awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The only thing that matters is that he knows where to be on the ice and how to find open space. No one should be expecting him to make Hank like passes, or to dangle D-men like Datsyuk. He just needs to know where to be for his linemates to get him the puck, and where his linemates are going to be when he has the puck. Just keep his game simple early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Kessel does have elite offensive awareness. People these days, are you kidding me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessstats Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Kessel does have elite offensive awareness. How so? His fave play - one he uses quite successfully - is to toedrag shoot through defenders feet on semi-screened goalies. That's a high IQ play? If you think it is then I don't see how you're complaining about Virtanen's IQ ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtor Rod Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Ya haha wow. So you think the fastest skater forward and backwards, a shot that tears through the net and the guy who hits people out of the rink when he has the puck won't have a career? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtor Rod Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Kessel does have elite offensive awareness. It's amazing when someone's lack of awareness is made aware when they are talking about someone else's lack of awareness. Is the word I am looking for ironic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tambellini's Wrist Shot Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 People these days, are you kidding me This is a common misconception about Kessel. He put up 40 goals playing beside Tyler Bozak. Kessel was the one driving the play on that line, he was not the passenger. He's also a very underrated playmaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) This is a common misconception about Kessel. He put up 40 goals playing beside Tyler Bozak. Kessel was the one driving the play on that line, he was not the passenger. He's also a very underrated playmaker. He may have being driving the play but he is no Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Tavares ETC. My definition of elite is top 10 in the league Edit here is my top 10 in no specific order Crosby Tavares Stamkos Ovi Malkin Tarasenko Seguin Karlsson Johnson Dats Edited September 7, 2015 by Gstank29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessstats Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I guess I'm looking for a decent explanation of what "high IQ" or "high offensive awareness" is since it is being argued that you need it to be an elite NHL scorer but when examples are brought up of NHL scorers who don't have ELITE offensive awareness - based on watching how they actually play and score their goals - it is then argued that they in fact DO have elite IQ ... for reasons. I guess it's an unassailable argument for those that make it. Argue a guy needs high IQ to score and then defend that view by saying every player who scores has high IQ. Pretty much impossible to be wrong, especially when they don't explain how they measure a player's IQ, including Jake's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) I guess I'm looking for a decent explanation of what "high IQ" or "high offensive awareness" is since it is being argued that you need it to be an elite NHL scorer but when examples are brought up of NHL scorers who don't have ELITE offensive awareness - based on watching how they actually play and score their goals - it is then argued that they in fact DO have elite IQ ... for reasons. I guess it's an unassailable argument for those that make it. Argue a guy needs high IQ to score and then defend that view by saying every player who scores has high IQ. Pretty much impossible to be wrong, especially when they don't explain how they measure a player's IQ, including Jake's... Different players score their goals in different ways. You could argue some elite players don't need to have high hockey IQ to score the goals they do because they make up for it in their physical abilities. I would argue Ovechkin and Stamkos don't have elite hockey IQ when compared to Crosby or Giroux, but they make up for it by being physical beasts. Dynamic skating and wicked slap shots are all you need to score goals, you don't have to be an elite passer, slick dangler, or a master at the cycle. Edited September 7, 2015 by DeNiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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