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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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I just think him playing on this team this year is a waste of his ELCz

People make way too much out of the ELC "issue" IMO. You're just as likely to get a cheaper bridge contract for more of his prime years than you are to "waste" anything. Particularly with what tends to be slower developing power forwards.

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People make way too much out of the ELC "issue" IMO. You're just as likely to get a cheaper bridge contract for more of his prime years than you are to "waste" anything. Particularly with what tends to be slower developing power forwards.

You love prospects being pushed into the NHL early because they throw lots of body checks and skate from one end of the ice to the other really fast. 

I understand, I get it. 

Our opinions differ.

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Oh I understand this, that's why I always said we shouldn't have him in our roster this season. He should be down in junior until he can refine his game a bit more.

McCann isn't making these mistakes, so not ALL rookies make mistakes. It's not that simple. Some rookies deserve to be here, JV does not. You can't keep justifying these mistakes because they're costing us games.

Let him learn? At what cost? Another 2 points on the standings?

I know that having rookies in your lineup is a double-edged sword, because you get to fast-track the development of players at the cost of these mistakes, inconsistent offensive production and overall a bit of a worse team than a stacked contending team full of veterans in their prime. But we've got the balance all wrong I believe. We were close, and the good teams like the Blackhawks integrate their rookies well with their veterans. They don't have too many unproven kids in their lineup, and the ones that are in there (like Panarin) are particularly exceptional. If they're not good enough, they don't make the roster, it's that simple.

I still believe we are playing too many rookies this season. People keep saying it's a great "youth movement" but just having young guys isn't necessarily a good thing. I think McCann belongs here and we need him at center because we don't have a 3C/4C. I think Hutton belongs here because he's our best puck mover and we don't have another guy like him in our organization. I think Horvat belongs here because he's our 2nd best center on the depth chart right now and we need him. Virtanen on the other hand, we do not need him in our lineup at this very moment. It isn't essential that he become a Canuck this season. We've got hitters and crashers in Prust, Dorsett, Gaunce and even Cracknell. We've got young scorers like Shinkaruk and Gaunce who can fill his role better.

I'm just saying we should have played Shinkaruk or Gaunce in Virtanen's role instead of Virtanen, and sent Virtanen back to junior for a year. Let him make his mistakes THERE where he won't hurt the team, and let him develop and get better playing 20 minutes a night over there while we have Shinkaruk or Gaunce up in Vancouver.

Now that ship has sailed, I think WD needs to bite the bullet and scratch Virtanen every other game for Shinkaruk.

 

I love McCann, but that claim is nonsense.  McCann has had his share of mistakes - more than Virtanen actually - including a number of obvious blown coverages, dangerous neutral zone turnovers - and he's the guy that is exposed more being a center.  He's not yet strong in the faceoff circle, and teams have appeared to put a target on his back - but you live with the growing pains and he's improving, cutting down on the high risk neutral zone passes and his defensive game at the NHL level will continue to refine.  He's been a solid presence on the forecheck for his size, and has some really crafty elements to his game.

Virtanen's 'mistakes' have primarily been difficulty clearing his zone when he's on his own half-boards - not an easy aspect for any young power forward - he and Kassian both had understandable difficulties at times, being on their backhand and attempting to move the puck with pressure on both sides.  Aside from that, Virtanen is more than a 'hitter and crasher'.  He is one of the few forwards that can blow by a defenseman and power their way to the net. Personally I've been more impressed with his game that I'd expected to be at this point, and I certainly wouldn't separate him from the other young guys - he's earned his minutes as much as the next guy, and he hasn't stood out any more in terms of 'rookie mistakes'.  Hutton may take the most risks of the three, but he also has an uncanny ability to slip out of tight situations.

The obvious factor also contributing is the fact that players like Gaunce and Shinkaruk can benefit from playing in the AHL moreso than Virtanen can at the junior level.  The AHL is a man's game - having 21 year olds playing in the AHL imo is not as much of a 'setback' as sending players like McCann or Virtanen back to the CHL.

Edited by oldnews
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not sure what people were expecting this year. They are playing 5 young players every night in virt,mccann,hutton,horvat,baert. For the team to be in the mix in the pacific division after 18games with 1/3 of your roster having limited to no NHL experience is quite good in my books.

Figured people would lay off these kids when Benning said they kept them so they could better control their development. To me that was a pretty clear message that they knew they wernt quite ready, but felt they had the best chance to learn and grow here with our coaches.

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not sure what people were expecting this year. They are playing 5 young players every night in virt,mccann,hutton,horvat,baert. For the team to be in the mix in the pacific division after 18games with 1/3 of your roster having limited to no NHL experience is quite good in my books.

Figured people would lay off these kids when Benning said they kept them so they could better control their development. To me that was a pretty clear message that they knew they wernt quite ready, but felt they had the best chance to learn and grow here with our coaches.

I personally favour the Detroit model over Edmonton's. That's all I'm saying. 

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Lazar

Another perfect example of a power type player developmental curve flattened.

He is a victim of doing everything possible in Jr yet not quite ready for the NHL. He appears to be physically ready but may have irreversible brain damage from eating hamburgers off the ice durning hamburgler's run last season. 

He has all but completely lost his offensive touch playing thug minutes with plug line mates. If anyone has watched him regularly he is a shadow of his formal self. He is nothing more than Tanner Glass. 

Do we want to develop a Tanner Glass? Edited by LaBamba
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Guess what? Virtanen's a rookie. Are you saying Burrows and Sedins in their rookie seasons didn't make mistakes? They've turned out great for us. And I'm not blaming Hutton either, he's been great and I can accept his mistakes unlike you guys. I'm not insulting these players, I'm just saying that this is part of the learning process and you can't just ram on him because he made a mistake. Players grow as mistakes come.

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The guy is not ready. As much as I want him to succeed the last few games have shown us he is in over his head.

 As Canuck fans we havent had the chance to put many teenagers under the microscope.  You can really see it in his game, he needs to be played lots at a lower level and he needs to have a coaching staff work with him.  Unfortunately hes too young for the AHL.

It kinda reminds me of Draisaitl in Edmonton.  The guy really looked out of place last year.  9 points in 37 games and was -17. He gets sent back to Kelowna, did some time in the AHL, looks like a completely different player this year.

 

 

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Bashing?

Why would my opinion on what I personally believe is best for his development have anything to do with Nylander or Ehlers. 

I think he will end up being a better player down the road if he takes the path through the AHL.

There are countless examples of players careers ruined by bringing them into the league too early. 

I can't think of one example of a player spending too much time in Jr and the AHL. 

We aren't winning the Stanley cup sooner with him in the lineup. We need him to be exactly what he is projected to be when our window reopens in 5 years. 

I'm not hating on your or anybody's opinion as I have one myself. I'm just stating that some, not all, people who says negative things about Virtanen were the same people who didn't like it when we drafted him, hence why I'm not surprised that they talk bad about him.

I respect your opinion, in fact it's a pretty good argument. For me personally I don't think he'll gain much if he goes back to Jr so ill let the management decide what's best for him. If they think he should be in the NHL, great. If not, that's fine too.

Regarding the not winning the Stanley cup with him in the lineup, I 100% agree but Canucks are also not gonna win without him in the lineup. Sedins are getting older and I don't mind our young guys getting experience while the Sedins are still playing. Great players to learn from on your rookie season.

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The guy is not ready. As much as I want him to succeed the last few games have shown us he is in over his head.

 As Canuck fans we havent had the chance to put many teenagers under the microscope.  You can really see it in his game, he needs to be played lots at a lower level and he needs to have a coaching staff work with him.  Unfortunately hes too young for the AHL.

It kinda reminds me of Draisaitl in Edmonton.  The guy really looked out of place last year.  9 points in 37 games and was -17. He gets sent back to Kelowna, did some time in the AHL, looks like a completely different player this year.

 

 

As painful as it is to admit this, I agree with your post. Virt showed some promise like his strides are good, he is tough (can give and take hits), his has some good snap to his shot (though it lacks accuracy at the moment), and most importantly, he is not lazy (he tries hard to backcheck and defend although somewhat lacking in efficiency). But ultimately, he is not quite ready yet.

I think he will play regularly until Prust returns but from that point on, he will see less games before ultimately getting sent to the World Junior tournament and then eventually to the WHL.

When there are injuries, we can call up Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Grenier, and Kenins so it's not like sending him down to the junior will leave us without good call up options.

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He has all but completely lost his offensive touch playing thug minutes with plug line mates. If anyone has watched him regularly he is a shadow of his formal self. He is nothing more than Tanner Glass. 

... I can think of someone else who played plug minutes with plug line-mates and is struggling now in a top six position...

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I'm not in this "oh jake should of been sent back to junior" debate or the "rookies are bound to make mistake" arguement   I'm frustrated because Jake is what he is.   The lack of hockey sense is extremely bothersome, hockey sense can't be taught by any coach at any level.  Sure he will learn to play a better system and will learn how to use his body and skating to score goals over time but the lack of hockey IQ will always be there.

Did anyone see the quiz with James Duthie and the HOF members?  Pronger, Fedorov, Lidstrom and I forget who else but anyways one of the questions was:  What is the first thing you should look for when selecting a player; it was unanimous, hockey sense. 

Yes I know it's early but if we can't express our feelings about young players then maybe we should delete the prospects thread. Again, he's not playing bad, he's playing how he knows how to play.  Straight line, aggressive although not energetic.  But I have seen nothing from him that says to me that he will ever be in the top 6 of an NHL team, this opinion comes from watching his Junior, AHL and NHL games.  

Button is an idiot for having him ranked so low...right guys?  We passed on a Calder candidate(thus far) in Ehlers and a 19 year old swedish kid who happens to be leading the AHL in points right now.  We passed on them for a straight line player with low hockey IQ  simply because he's from the area.  Sure we need a player like Jake, but when is the next time we are going to have a chance to select a high potential ELITE offensive talent?   Who will replace the Sedins when they are gone? Not Jake 

Prove me wrong JV

you forgot nick Ritchie who's a ppg in his rookie AHL season with 8 or so goals in 12 games 

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I'm not in this "oh jake should of been sent back to junior" debate or the "rookies are bound to make mistake" arguement   I'm frustrated because Jake is what he is.   The lack of hockey sense is extremely bothersome, hockey sense can't be taught by any coach at any level.  Sure he will learn to play a better system and will learn how to use his body and skating to score goals over time but the lack of hockey IQ will always be there.

Did anyone see the quiz with James Duthie and the HOF members?  Pronger, Fedorov, Lidstrom and I forget who else but anyways one of the questions was:  What is the first thing you should look for when selecting a player; it was unanimous, hockey sense. 

Yes I know it's early but if we can't express our feelings about young players then maybe we should delete the prospects thread. Again, he's not playing bad, he's playing how he knows how to play.  Straight line, aggressive although not energetic.  But I have seen nothing from him that says to me that he will ever be in the top 6 of an NHL team, this opinion comes from watching his Junior, AHL and NHL games.  

Button is an idiot for having him ranked so low...right guys?  We passed on a Calder candidate(thus far) in Ehlers and a 19 year old swedish kid who happens to be leading the AHL in points right now.  We passed on them for a straight line player with low hockey IQ  simply because he's from the area.  Sure we need a player like Jake, but when is the next time we are going to have a chance to select a high potential ELITE offensive talent?   Who will replace the Sedins when they are gone? Not Jake 

Prove me wrong JV

Vey scored a kabillion points in the A.  Baer scored like crazy with the Flames as an 18 year old emergency call up.  We already have seen the movies you are recommending as better than JV.  I do like N. Ritchie too though.  I will not argue with you about his  

 

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You love prospects being pushed into the NHL early because they throw lots of body checks and skate from one end of the ice to the other really fast. 

I understand, I get it. 

Our opinions differ.

lol...nope. Never said any of that but nice attempt at a straw man... 

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