LaBamba Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Complaining about who we should have drafted is pointless. We drafted Jake Virtanen, end of story. I just really hope we maximize his potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 lol...nope. Never said any of that but nice attempt at a straw man... Explain the special skill set we cannot substitute until he is 22, even bigger, and bursting at the seams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I personally favour the Detroit model over Edmonton's. That's all I'm saying. Well the Canucks and Jake aren't really either 'model', so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Explain the special skill set we cannot substitute until he is 22, even bigger, and bursting at the seams. Another straw man, really? I never said he had a skill set we couldn't substitute. Are you trying to discuss something with someone else and quoting me by mistake? Poor reading comprehension? Drunk and talking out your arse? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Well the Canucks and Jake aren't really either 'model', so there's that. the only model that matters is the one which proves to win Cups. That would be Chicago and LA. Arguably the most important players on those Cup teams were picked in the top three of their drafts. Yes, each team has outliers too, but the key pieces were top picks. Now when a team gets those top picks it absolutely matters who they draft. The Oilers chose poorly, hence they suck. () I don't see any success for the Wings other than middle of the road. Great Cup winning players will develop into Cup competing players no matter the system. It's drafting them that is the key, and the higher a team drafts, the more likely the team is to get those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Uhh k yeah Nylander = Linden Vey because they are both small and play in the AHL...gotchawe usually don't agree on players, but I guess this time we do. Great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Vey scored a kabillion points in the A. Baer scored like crazy with the Flames as an 18 year old emergency call up. We already have seen the movies you are recommending as better than JV. I do like N. Ritchie too though. I will not argue with you about his So you dislike Nylander (who's up there fighting for most goals in the A) and Ehlers (a Calder candidate) but you like the very definition of a pitt bull in Nick Ritchie? Did I understand that right?What happened to the Canucks that were predominantly based on skill that won 2 presidents trophies and came within 1 game of the Stanley Cup? And yes I know Ritchie is ppg for now but this proves how there's a double standard between big and small players on this board. Edited November 16, 2015 by guntrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 So you dislike Nylander (who's up there fighting for most goals in the A) and Ehlers (a Calder candidate) but you like the very definition of a pitt bull in Nick Ritchie? Did I understand that right?What happened to the Canucks that were predominantly based on skill that won 2 presidents trophies and came within 1 game of the Stanley Cup? And yes I know Ritchie is ppg for now but this proves how there's a double standard between big and small players on this board.I have nothing against smaller players. It's perimiter, soft on the puck and soft off the puck players, I have problems with: Vey and Baer, or Nylander and Ehlers. The Twins led us to those successes you refer. They are far from soft. They are hard on and off the puck. Yes we need young guys who play with the skill of the Twins to become Cup contenders again. IMO Vey and Baer are the same as Nylander and Ehlers. These are not players who are key to Cup winning teams. We still don't have those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Virtanen's the more dynamic player with a skill set we lack while Gaunce's is more redundant. Keeping Virtanen up also gives the team more depth (particularly for the impending Higgins trade). That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Well the Canucks and Jake aren't really either 'model', so there's that. What I meant by Detroit model is build a team while making the playoffs. Drafting well with later picks.AHL is mandatory for all drafted players. Edmonton/ JR model.Force young players into lineup because of a teams current need.Pick in the lottery every single year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 the only model that matters is the one which proves to win Cups. That would be Chicago and LA. Arguably the most important players on those Cup teams were picked in the top three of their drafts. Yes, each team has outliers too, but the key pieces were top picks. Now when a team gets those top picks it absolutely matters who they draft. The Oilers chose poorly, hence they suck. () I don't see any success for the Wings other than middle of the road. Great Cup winning players will develop into Cup competing players no matter the system. It's drafting them that is the key, and the higher a team drafts, the more likely the team is to get those guys.Chicago is probably the best 2nd - 7th round drafting team in the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Chicago is probably the best 2nd - 7th round drafting team in the last decade. Dont forget Detriot and Tampa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I have nothing against smaller players. It's perimiter, soft on the puck and soft off the puck players, I have problems with: Vey and Baer, or Nylander and Ehlers. The Twins led us to those successes you refer. They are far from soft. They are hard on and off the puck. Yes we need young guys who play with the skill of the Twins to become Cup contenders again. IMO Vey and Baer are the same as Nylander and Ehlers. These are not players who are key to Cup winning teams. We still don't have those guys. I guess you must not like Patrick Kane. Btw Nylander or Ehlers are not soft on the puck, they go after it all the time. Maybe you should actually watch them before constantly running crap at them. I like Virtanen as a pick but at number 6 the jury is still out for me and I hope he proves me wrong. I will give him 3-4 years to see how he develops and matures because he has a good tool box to be a fine power forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) And? So we've narrowed it down to poor reading comprehension or drunk and talking out your arse. What I meant by Detroit model is build a team while making the playoffs. Drafting well with later picks.AHL is mandatory for all drafted players. Edmonton/ JR model.Force young players into lineup because of a teams current need.Pick in the lottery every single year. lol nope. Straw man again...weee fun! Edited November 16, 2015 by J.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 And? So we've narrowed it down to poor reading comprehension or drunk and talking out your arse. lol nope. Straw man again...weee fun!Please explain to me what you meant in words I can understand. I will be the first to tell you that I'm one of those guys who think I'm smart but in reality I'm actually full of crap and I'm doing everything I can to keep my head above water for the sake of staying alive in an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Please explain to me what you meant in words I can understand. I will be the first to tell you that I'm one of those guys who think I'm smart but in reality I'm actually full of crap and I'm doing everything I can to keep my head above water for the sake of staying alive in an argument. There is not a vast difference in quality of play between Gaunce and Virt at this point. I'd agree that Gaunce at this point is more 'polished' but we're not winning or loosing games having one in over the other. Gaunce however doesn't bring anything particularly different in his skill set than players we already have on the team, in particular Higgins. We don't currently have available anywhere else on our roster what Virtanen has more of than Gaunce (physicality, speed and shot). He's less polished but more dynamic and less redundant.Sending Virt back to Jr. also means he's gone for the year and we have one less man of depth available as an organization. Depth is pretty important and it's really, REALLY nice to have guys like Gaunce or Shink available as call ups when we need them rather than less competent players (AKA: plugs). It's also important that Utica has a good team as well.Then there's the matter of his development. The Hitmen are not a particularly good team, they're usage of Virt in the past has been somewhat questionable and their use of systems is either being poorly taught, poorly implemented, both or barely used at all. Sending him back to that environment to further teach him bad habits and little to no systems/positioning while dominating younger, smaller players is not going to help him develop. If he played for say the London Knights or a similar team, sending him back to Jr. would be a far bigger consideration. As it stands, he's much better off with NHL coaches, team mates, trainers, nutritionists and competition. Depending on how well he does this year and next off season, he may very well spend at least some time in Utica next year but this year he's FAR better off here.Now if people would just temper their expectations of how he does, this year... Edited November 16, 2015 by J.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 the only model that matters is the one which proves to win Cups. That would be Chicago and LA. Arguably the most important players on those Cup teams were picked in the top three of their drafts. Yes, each team has outliers too, but the key pieces were top picks. Now when a team gets those top picks it absolutely matters who they draft. The Oilers chose poorly, hence they suck. () I don't see any success for the Wings other than middle of the road. Great Cup winning players will develop into Cup competing players no matter the system. It's drafting them that is the key, and the higher a team drafts, the more likely the team is to get those guys.You must have just started watching hockey then.Your concept of the "Chicago and LA models" is really oversimplified - to the point of being utterly meaningless.I have nothing against smaller players. It's perimiter, soft on the puck and soft off the puck players, I have problems with: Vey and Baer, or Nylander and Ehlers. The Twins led us to those successes you refer. They are far from soft. They are hard on and off the puck. Yes we need young guys who play with the skill of the Twins to become Cup contenders again. IMO Vey and Baer are the same as Nylander and Ehlers. These are not players who are key to Cup winning teams. We still don't have those guys. And while you're citing the Chicago model and claiming that these types of players aren't key to Cup winning teams, your point is betrayed by the fact that one of the two players your concept of the 'Chicago model' depends on happens to be Patrick Kane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 As for 'models' I'd prefer we have our own 'Vancouver" model. Be a hard working, competitive team at all levels of development with hard work, tenacious puck pursuit and leadership as hallmarks. Put players, coaches etc in the best place for them to succeed and reach their maximum potential in their given roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Depending on how well he does this year and next off season, he may very well spend at least some time in Utica next year but this year he's FAR better off here.If plays a full season in the NHL this year, would he not have to pass through waivers to play for the Comets next year? Or is he protected by his ELC? Or I might be confusing this with games played and rookie status... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 If plays a full season in the NHL this year, would he not have to pass through waivers to play for the Comets next year? Or is he protected by his ELC? Or I might be confusing this with games played and rookie status...Waivers aren't an issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now