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Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


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Anyone still think it wouldn't be a good idea to loan him to team Canada?

It seems to me like he's regressing. 

This is pretty much what I predicted, which is why I wanted him to stay in junior, but now we're in this stupid mess we might as well find out the best possible thing to do with Virtanen and not break his development too much.

I think a loan to team Canada would be the single best thing for Virtanen right now. Hopefully he can gain some confidence over there and bring it back to the Canucks.

Now that we've burned a year on his ELC, are we allowed to send him to Utica for a bit or does he have to stay with the Canucks and either dress or sit in the press-box? I'd much rather Virtanen play top-6 minutes in Utica where he'd really be their star than in Vancouver where he gets around 10 minutes a night and clearly isn't up to speed with. At least in the AHL it's a bit of a stepping stone in terms of speed and skill. Let him get up to scratch there, then bring his refined tools to the NHL in a few games time.

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This is pretty much what I predicted, which is why I wanted him to stay in junior, but now we're in this stupid mess we might as well find out the best possible thing to do with Virtanen and not break his development too much.

I think a loan to team Canada would be the single best thing for Virtanen right now. Hopefully he can gain some confidence over there and bring it back to the Canucks.

Now that we've burned a year on his ELC, are we allowed to send him to Utica for a bit or does he have to stay with the Canucks and either dress or sit in the press-box? I'd much rather Virtanen play top-6 minutes in Utica where he'd really be their star than in Vancouver where he gets around 10 minutes a night and clearly isn't up to speed with. At least in the AHL it's a bit of a stepping stone in terms of speed and skill. Let him get up to scratch there, then bring his refined tools to the NHL in a few games time.

I wish he could go to the AHL but he still has to go back to Jr even though we burned a year off his ELC. If we send him down before 40 games we don't burn a year of RFA though which is in my opinion the more important number. I say send him to the WJC and then evaluate him at the 40 game mark. 

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Not only does it seem like he's not able to progress with the way he is playing but he is also an anchor to which ever line he is put on.  Baertschi Horvat and Virtanen were useless today.  They had 1 good shift.  

Virtanen wouldn't be on that line if Vrbata was getting it done.

We're about 4 top 6 forwards away from a top 6 right now. That's forcing young guys into roles they're not ready for.

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You also have to consider the role they'd be in and what opportunity there was on the team. Gaunce was competing with other bottom 6 players and we already had Burrows, Hansen, Prust and Dorsett in those roles. Add to that McCann came out of camp playing very well and keeping Cracknell up and there was only really the 3rd line center role left. Maybe you can move Burrows up with the Sedins (or now we've seen Hansen back there) but Virtanen could move between the top and bottom 6 so there was more opportunity for him.

Maybe Virtanen being CHL or NHL only was the final factor, but it was by no means a given before that Gaunce should be the one staying.

Isn't that the exact role virtanen is in? Has he played in a scoring role at all yet? If there is no spot for gaunce then there sure iisn't a spot for virtanen, he isn't remotely close to being ready for a top 6 position.  

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I wish he could go to the AHL but he still has to go back to Jr even though we burned a year off his ELC. If we send him down before 40 games we don't burn a year of RFA though which is in my opinion the more important number. I say send him to the WJC and then evaluate him at the 40 game mark. 

If I were the Canucks coaches I'd take a serious think about that. They've got to cut their losses. Send him down at around the 30-40 game mark to junior. His development is worth burning a year on the ELC.

Personally I think he'd STILL learn and develop a lot better down in Calgary than with the Canucks right now. Problem is it would make the Canucks management and coaches look like damn fools - I don't recall many teams doing this - which is why it probably won't happen. Canucks big brass saving face at the expense of the kids development.

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Over in the WHL, Fazleev is off to a pretty good start (over a point per game Center in Calgary) and Houck is really reaping the rewards of Virtanen's departure. If he can shift to left wing that'd be one of the best lines in the league in Houck - Fazleev - Virtanen. Obviously Sanheim is still there on the blueline tearing it up, I honestly think Virtanen would be better off in Calgary right now on their top line.

They're not even doing as badly as I thought - 3rd in the division and in a playoff spot but similarly to the Canucks, only a game over .500.

Just interesting to note that Virtanen would have a brilliant opportunity to play with some of the best players in the WHL if he went back to Calgary, especially with how well Fazleev, Houck and Sanheim are playing this season. They're all clicking at well over a point per game with Calgary which is where we want Jake ideally.

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Over in the WHL, Fazleev is off to a pretty good start (over a point per game Center in Calgary) and Houck is really reaping the rewards of Virtanen's departure. If he can shift to left wing that'd be one of the best lines in the league in Houck - Fazleev - Virtanen. Obviously Sanheim is still there on the blueline tearing it up, I honestly think Virtanen would be better off in Calgary right now on their top line.

They're not even doing as badly as I thought - 3rd in the division and in a playoff spot but similarly to the Canucks, only a game over .500.

Just interesting to note that Virtanen would have a brilliant opportunity to play with some of the best players in the WHL if he went back to Calgary, especially with how well Fazleev, Houck and Sanheim are playing this season. They're all clicking at well over a point per game with Calgary which is where we want Jake ideally.

i really hope this happens. It would be great for his development and great for the Canucks, just too many rookies on the team right now 

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12 hours ago, LaBamba said:

finally someone else who isn't blinded by the BS. 

Virtanen did not earn his spot on this team, he is here for technical reasons only. 

So Dynamic tho. 

 

11 hours ago, elvis15 said:

Maybe Virtanen being CHL or NHL only was the final factor, but it was by no means a given before that Gaunce should be the one staying.

I'm not sure why this is so hard for some to figure out/accept. The CHL/NHL issue may have been the straw that broke the Gaunce-camel's back (no one is denying it was a factor) but it was far from the only reason Virt made the team over Gaunce.

32054-joseph-ducreaux-haters-gonna-h-erm

 

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3 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

i really hope this happens. It would be great for his development and great for the Canucks, just too many rookies on the team right now

Yet, they are benched in the 3rd period and overtime and this is where the wheels fall off every time for us.  I'd say we have too many veteran playing sub-par right more than too many rookies.

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Virtanen has been fine.  It's the vets that are missing easy assignments and that is unacceptable.  Plus WD is having a tough time getting his line combo's up to snuff.  Sending JV down to juniors would be a huge mistake, this isn't the Coilers.  Keep JV in the bottom six and loan him to WJC in Dec.  He'll come back a blazing.

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The problem is largely the D. Not the rookies, not Jake in particular and not really the (forward) vets (short of perhaps a snake bitten Vrbata). There was questions about our D coming in to the year and for good reason.

Edler/Tanev are basically #2's and Tanev's banged up (and still more of a #2/3 IMO until/if he can get bigger/meaner). Hamhuis is an ok #2/3 but trending down with age. Hutton has played great but he's a 22 year old rookie...he's can't save this D core alone and likely shouldn't be forced in to a top 4 role so quickly). Beyond that, Bart/Weber are decent enough 5/6 (or in Weber's case 6/7) guys and Bart can fill in in as a #4 occasionally  but shouldn't be playing there regularly. We're missing Sbisa's size and speed. We lack size and talent, particularly on our right side and we have no real top 4 or top 4 prospect depth and what top 4 we do have is too heavily left side biased.

These are things that can not and likely will not, be be fixed this year. Our D basically needs guys to stay largely healthy to not be extremely exposed and even healthy are not that great. When not healthy...well the last couple weeks are pretty evident.

Add Prust, Sutter etc being out and...

 

 

Edited by J.R.
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The team management have indicated that they think Jake will develop better in the NHL.  I don't think it's fair to judge the 19yr old rookie on 15 games.  Comparing him to snipers on other teams is useless;  apples and oranges.  It will take a lot of time and decent coaching to help him put together his game. 

The team is missing Prust, Sutter and Burr, which is forcing WD to put Virt on the 2nd line, where he is a bit over his head (although I don't think he is hurting the team).  When the regulars come back, Virt will go back to a bottom 6 line where he's better suited as a rookie.  He will have time in the press box as well.  It's all a learning experience.

The team can send him back to jrs at any time.   I think they might send him back to Jrs before the 40 game limit (a year off RFA), whenever that happens.

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16 hours ago, LaBamba said:

finally someone else who isn't blinded by the BS. 

Virtanen did not earn his spot on this team, he is here for technical reasons only. 

What are you talking about?  Please show these vast throngs of people who claimed that Virtanen outplayed Gaunce in the preseason.  I'd suggest you'll be hard-pressed to find one.

The straw is strong with this one...

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16 hours ago, Gstank29 said:

The problem i have is that the last 5 or so games he hasn't progressed at all. Maybe he is still feeling the effects of that fight but for a young player I would like to see some kind of progression though a 5 game sample.

 

15 hours ago, DeNiro said:

It seems to me like he's regressing. 

 

14 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Not only does it seem like he's not able to progress with the way he is playing but he is also an anchor to which ever line he is put on.  Baertschi Horvat and Virtanen were useless today.  They had 1 good shift.  

He just turned 19 years old and has played 15 games.

What exactly are you expecting here, a straight-up linear development path?  By your standards, no rookies would ever stay on the team for more than a handful of games at a time, and would never have sufficient opportunity to improve let alone even get their feet wet.

I don't know what kind of expectations have been created here, but they are evidently not based at all in reality.  Thank goodness none of you are involved in player development let alone any team management.  People cry and wail for youth in the lineup, then have absolutely zero patience once they get there.  They complain they don't get enough ice-time, then when they don't produce they write them off as "not ready" or a bust.

At least have a bit of perspective.  Please?

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I don't think it's unreasonable to have the same expectations for Viratanen as we have seen from Horvat ( last season) and McCann this season Neither Virtanen nor Beartschi have made much impact. Sure Virtanen has speed and you can see that and he can hit ( se can Kenins) but there's few NHL players going to make their mark on only those parts of the game.... sorry I'm not sold on Virtanen.

 

Beartschi just doesn't seem to be fully in the game, The odd flash but in the end you end up not expecting much

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1 minute ago, Fred65 said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to have the same expectations for Viratanen as we have seen from Horvat ( last season) and McCann this season Neither Virtanen nor Beartschi have made much impact. Sure Virtanen has speed and you can see that and he can hit ( se can Kenins) but there's few NHL players going to make their mark on only those parts of the game.... sorry I'm not sold on Virtanen.

 

Beartschi just doesn't seem to be fully in the game, The odd flash but in the end you end up not expecting much

Horvat, while generally steady was nothing particularly exciting to write home about for the first half of the season. Had a few bad games here and there where he got schooled in the dot and looked 'not ready' too.

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The stats don't indicate that he is NHL ready yet and I'm not sure if he'll really improve at the NHL level if this keeps up. 

Even if Virtanen is in my opinion expected to eventually be better than Horvat and Mccann in the long run, the problem is that his power forward style takes a while to properly develop to the point where it is NHL ready. Theres no point in rushing this kid, I say that he can stay at the Junior level for now to practice his skills. He's 19 he's got a lot of time to improve on what is expected of him. I think that in the long run, things would be better if he stayed at a lower league first. 
 

Having said that, I'm unsure if we're just keeping him up here so he can produce and get us into the play-offs. If that were the case, I'd be disappointed because this could just stunt his growth as a player. I'd rather miss a play-off year than stunt the growth of what could potentially be the future face of this franchise.

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2 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

What are you talking about?  Please show these vast throngs of people who claimed that Virtanen outplayed Gaunce in the preseason.  I'd suggest you'll be hard-pressed to find one.

The straw is strong with this one...

That is exactly what I was implying tough guy. 

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  • -Vintage Canuck- changed the title to Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW
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