Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Cowardrobertford]

Detroit, what a great scouting team they have

[Derp...]

1 hour ago, Cowardrobertford said:

Detroit, what a great scouting team they have

Are they great, or is everyone else just not very good? I feel like JB is top 5 in scouting GM's in the league. 

[Gstank29]

1 hour ago, Cowardrobertford said:

Detroit, what a great scouting team they have

I think there 2015 draft was pretty weak.

But i can't imagen what Benning draft would look like if he would multiple picks in the top 50

 

 

Edited December 27, 2015 by Gstank29

[Toews]

The Red Wings scouting has been good but people still pretend as if they still have a huge advantage over the other teams. 

Tampa has been killing it. They picked up their entire top line with a late first, a 7th round pick and an undrafted free agent signing. They can quite frankly contemplate letting a franchise player like Stamkos go if it affords then cap flexibility.

I don't even have to list the defensemen that Nashville has drafted. 

Chicago has drafted fabulously over the years as well.

The California teams have done a great job at drafting as well. So the whole Detroit is far superior at drafting at everyone else is no longer true as it was a decade ago. Dallas themselves have possibly picked up one of the best forwards in the league and one of the best offensive defenseman this season with late round picks.

[Sean Monahan]

Not to mention, a lot of those years when Detroit was finding steals in the later rounds they picked relative duds in the first and sometimes second round as well.

[Toews]

42 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

Not to mention, a lot of those years when Detroit was finding steals in the later rounds they picked relative duds in the first and sometimes second round as well.

I personally love Tampa's drafting. They aren't at all afraid of taking risks there. But they are able to do that because they are stacked in depth at literally every position. It allows you more leeway at taking risks with your picks.

[McCannon]

13 hours ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

sorry dude, but I stick to what I say today's game he had a 3 on 2 where he made a ugly pass, and many other plays were he wasn't using his hockey IQ. I think Button nailed it with Virtanen, has the tools to be a powerforward but does lack hockey IQ. Bottom line he is suppose to be a impact player like Domi was but today's game didn't show me much from him. Long tourney, but so far sorry I'm not impressed because he is taken pretty darn high. Again just my personal thoughts, but he needs to start playing like Domi and Duclair were eg dominating each time they were on the ice. 

Ya that goal vs Sweden where he walked off the half boards and ripped it shelf showed zero hockey IQ. You don't score 40 goals in Junior, get put on TEAM CANADA because you have a low hockey IQ . If you and Button believe that, no one can help you.

Moreover, he is a very different player than Domi. He is more like Perlini and that's what OUR team needed in its process of building a future TEAM not just a bunch of dancers. Jake has elite skating, and elite shot, and is solid defensively (which we can see he has been working on), he also is a punishing hitter, something our team will NEED when we chase a cup in 4-5 years with our new crop. He is never going to dangle like Domi and if that is your expectation you are showing a distinct lack of hockey knowledge. If Jake is playing with an elite playmaker (like McCann for instance), or a Baerschi - wait and see what he does in 3-4 years. Oh by the way, Jake is in the NHL and:

1. He's on the same pace as Reinhart - I guess he's a bust? (oh and Reinhart gets 2nd line ice)

2. Dal Colle is in Junior - so he's a bust?

3. Nylander is in the AHL and the leafs suck - so I guess he's a bust?

4. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2014e.html   -

Other than Ekblad, Pasternak and Larkin (and McCann who we have), Jake is pretty much either inline with his class or performing better by being in the NHL (when others are still in junior)

Perhaps do some homework vs just giving an 'opinion' based on like or dislike. Use facts to support an argument and you'll come across more intelligent if they support your view, or perhaps you'll learn prior to making an argument that the point was actually fallacious and you'll learn something

Go read my post on him perhaps you'll learn a bit about the game and evaluating players.

 

Edited December 27, 2015 by McCannon

[Hairy Kneel]

Did Jake knock Nylander out of the WJC's?

[guntrix]

3 hours ago, McCannon said:

Ya that goal vs Sweden where he walked off the half boards and ripped it shelf showed zero hockey IQ. You don't score 40 goals in Junior, get put on TEAM CANADA because you have a low hockey IQ . If you and Button believe that, no one can help you.

Moreover, he is a very different player than Domi. He is more like Perlini and that's what OUR team needed in its process of building a future TEAM not just a bunch of dancers. Jake has elite skating, and elite shot, and is solid defensively (which we can see he has been working on), he also is a punishing hitter, something our team will NEED when we chase a cup in 4-5 years with our new crop. He is never going to dangle like Domi and if that is your expectation you are showing a distinct lack of hockey knowledge. If Jake is playing with an elite playmaker (like McCann for instance), or a Baerschi - wait and see what he does in 3-4 years. Oh by the way, Jake is in the NHL and:

1. He's on the same pace as Reinhart - I guess he's a bust? (oh and Reinhart gets 2nd line ice)

2. Dal Colle is in Junior - so he's a bust?

3. Nylander is in the AHL and the leafs suck - so I guess he's a bust?

4. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2014e.html   -

Other than Ekblad, Pasternak and Larkin (and McCann who we have), Jake is pretty much either inline with his class or performing better by being in the NHL (when others are still in junior)

Perhaps do some homework vs just giving an 'opinion' based on like or dislike. Use facts to support an argument and you'll come across more intelligent if they support your view, or perhaps you'll learn prior to making an argument that the point was actually fallacious and you'll learn something

Go read my post on him perhaps you'll learn a bit about the game and evaluating players.

 

So many holes in this argument, an East Hastings hooker would be proud.

1. Continually citing "that one Virtanen goal vs Sweden" simply proves that there's not much supporting evidence of your Virtanen has good IQ argument. 

2. "Jake is in the NHL" is not sufficient enough reason to say that he's better than some of his counterparts.

3. Reinhart's and MDC's shortcomings do not justify JV's. For all we know, Reinhart may not turn out as good as initially touted and MDC may be putting his play on cruise control until he's eligible for the AHL (as discussed regarding numerous top 5 picks).

4. "Nylander is in the AHL" is definitely not a good argument as he's actually doing comparatively better than Virtanen despite being in a lesser league. 34 points in 27 games as a 19 y/o AHLer > averaging scrap minutes and 4 points in the NHL. Some on here may deny this premise but I'm sure most neutrals would agree.

"Go read my post on him perhaps you'll learn a bit about the game and evaluating players."

There's nothing worse than this kind of condescending tone whilst being off the mark. It makes you look bad. 

Edited December 27, 2015 by guntrix

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

I hope Jake keeps his game simple from here on in.

He tried to do too much on his own and didn't stick to the stuff that has gotten him this far.

Lots of pressure on him to perform so hopefully he can put that in the rearview mirror and just do his thing like we know he can.  I have faith he will find his way soon.

[DownUndaCanuck]

21 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

6th overall does not equal an elite player in any draft. We hit the jackpot once in 1999 and got the 2nd and 3rd. other than that it's amazing that we've been good for the last decade. We did it through development and we're going to need to do it the same way in the future.

At 6th overall in the 2014 draft was Jake Virtanen.

At the combine he was the fastest skater forwards and backwards in a draft class that included Ekblad.

He hits people and they fly and he shoots the puck hard.

 

We took the best athlete at that spot. His skillset is good enough to take a risk on. They don't make that kind of player very often. I've never seen people bounce off of a player in the way that happens with this kid. He's always the fastest player on the ice and he has a great wrist/slapshot.

We're willing to take this player because he is the type of winger who is rare in the NHL.

 

If you don't agree with that position by management then there's nothing you can do about it, but spew away.

He was 2 weeks away from being a 2015 draft pick. Young.

These aren't excuses. There are people that need to temper their expectations.

 

 

I just think that the 6th overall pick SHOULD get you an elite player, purely because of the guys drafted around him - in particular Nylander (Ehlers too but I've never been a huge fan) .

Nylander goes a couple after Virtanen and is pretty much going to be an elite #1 center in the NHL. He won't be the best center of his era for sure, but he'll be a damn good skilled center.

Haydn Fleury gets drafted right after Virtanen which ticks me off. The Canucks had a huge hole on defence going into the 2014 draft, they knew it, and we pass up on Fleury who is the slick puck mover this team desperately needs. He's essentially a rich-man's Hutton, almost a guaranteed top-4 defenceman in this league.

Lets not even mention why we (or the first 14) teams missed on Larkin, but that's another fail by the Canucks at what could and should have been a future top line center - another of the Canucks needs.

 

There were a lot of elite players taken in the first round of the draft, not just top-10 but top-20 too. Good drafting separates the good teams from the bad which is why Detroit walk away with an elite player at #15 and we walk away with Virtanen at #6.

[NEON.KNEE]

30 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I just think that the 6th overall pick SHOULD get you an elite player, purely because of the guys drafted around him - in particular Nylander (Ehlers too but I've never been a huge fan) .

Nylander goes a couple after Virtanen and is pretty much going to be an elite #1 center in the NHL. He won't be the best center of his era for sure, but he'll be a damn good skilled center.

Haydn Fleury gets drafted right after Virtanen which ticks me off. The Canucks had a huge hole on defence going into the 2014 draft, they knew it, and we pass up on Fleury who is the slick puck mover this team desperately needs. He's essentially a rich-man's Hutton, almost a guaranteed top-4 defenceman in this league.

Lets not even mention why we (or the first 14) teams missed on Larkin, but that's another fail by the Canucks at what could and should have been a future top line center - another of the Canucks needs.

 

There were a lot of elite players taken in the first round of the draft, not just top-10 but top-20 too. Good drafting separates the good teams from the bad which is why Detroit walk away with an elite player at #15 and we walk away with Virtanen at #6.

and we got McCann in the early 20's so what is your point.... Virtanen was the popular pick for Mgt and for the Majority of the fans.  Did you see the hit Nylander took?  He has maybe 2 of those left before he is a hollow shell of his former self...Jake could take that hit...and give it.    

[Crabcakes]

26 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I just think that the 6th overall pick SHOULD get you an elite player, purely because of the guys drafted around him - in particular Nylander (Ehlers too but I've never been a huge fan) .

Nylander goes a couple after Virtanen and is pretty much going to be an elite #1 center in the NHL. He won't be the best center of his era for sure, but he'll be a damn good skilled center.

Haydn Fleury gets drafted right after Virtanen which ticks me off. The Canucks had a huge hole on defence going into the 2014 draft, they knew it, and we pass up on Fleury who is the slick puck mover this team desperately needs. He's essentially a rich-man's Hutton, almost a guaranteed top-4 defenceman in this league.

Lets not even mention why we (or the first 14) teams missed on Larkin, but that's another fail by the Canucks at what could and should have been a future top line center - another of the Canucks needs.

 

There were a lot of elite players taken in the first round of the draft, not just top-10 but top-20 too. Good drafting separates the good teams from the bad which is why Detroit walk away with an elite player at #15 and we walk away with Virtanen at #6.

Reading your post and Canuckledragins post together, it struck me that there was some common ground.  6th overall is a high pick so you should get something special.  You are saying that you should get an elite player but Virtanen has some rare and unique qualities.  Either way, the Canucks got something special.

I'd like to add that I think the Canucks got a future #1 centre at 24 OA in Jarred McCann.

Benning isn't wasting his 1st rounders like Gillis did 4 years in a row.  I'm confident that all of them will play on the team.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Crabcakes said:

Reading your post and Canuckledragins post together, it struck me that there was some common ground.  6th overall is a high pick so you should get something special.  You are saying that you should get an elite player but Virtanen has some rare and unique qualities.  Either way, the Canucks got something special.

I'd like to add that I think the Canucks got a future #1 centre at 24 OA in Jarred McCann.

Benning isn't wasting his 1st rounders like Gillis did 4 years in a row.  I'm confident that all of them will play on the team.

I echo your sentiments Crabcakes.  JB clearly thought the two Euos so much discussed as elite talent are not difference makers, so he took JV, who will make a difference with his physical game.  Plus, McCann is a brilliant pick.  He always makes his line mates better.  So really we got two impactful players.

[messier's_elbow]

10 hours ago, ice orca said:

Meanwhile Detroit's pick is making a bunch of GM's look like idiots including ours.

 

 

 

That happens every year. Just like when Tarensenko went mid late first round ect

[messier's_elbow]

33 minutes ago, NEON.KNEE said:

and we got McCann in the early 20's so what is your point.... Virtanen was the popular pick for Mgt and for the Majority of the fans.  Did you see the hit Nylander took?  He has maybe 2 of those left before he is a hollow shell of his former self...Jake could take that hit...and give it.    

In Nylanders defence anyone would have been hurt from that hit... It was a cheap head shot 

[DownUndaCanuck]

2 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Reading your post and Canuckledragins post together, it struck me that there was some common ground.  6th overall is a high pick so you should get something special.  You are saying that you should get an elite player but Virtanen has some rare and unique qualities.  Either way, the Canucks got something special.

I'd like to add that I think the Canucks got a future #1 centre at 24 OA in Jarred McCann.

Benning isn't wasting his 1st rounders like Gillis did 4 years in a row.  I'm confident that all of them will play on the team.

This is true, my only argument is that it's much easier to find a physical forward who can pot 20 goals in later rounds/UFA/trades compared to that elite, top end offensive ability-type center. It's a bit similar to how defencemen are rarely picked high because of the same reason - powerforwards and defencemen take longer to develop and drafting them doesn't really matter as much as developing them. On the otherhand, pure offensive talent is harder to teach and develop and is something a player either has or doesn't by 18, which is why I personally believe you should draft for that and develop powerforwards from later rounds similarly to how many teams approach defencemen - taking them in later rounds and developing them.

[aGENT]

I love all the absolute prognostications about a bunch of 19 year olds 

[messier's_elbow]

1 hour ago, The 5th Line said:

Yeah Jake was a huge difference maker with his physical play on boxing day!  All those hits he was delivering almost got us that late goal we desperately needed! 

Can I ask you a question? Who played well in that Boxing Day game besides Strome and Konecney?

[messier's_elbow]

Just now, The 5th Line said:

Can I ask you one?  Who are the 19 year old returnees who are expected to lead by example? 

I thought Hicketts and Gauthier were good as well as Strome and Konecny.  Can't think of any else off the top of my head

Didn't Hicketts score on his own net? My point is it's one game. Not many of the guys played well.  He had 2 goals and dominated the game before. If he sucks in the next couple of games, then you have a right to be on his case.