SvenBae Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 9 minutes ago, guntrix said: Plus minus is the most convenient thing in all of sports history. It's dismissed as a "misleading" stat when it doesn't support an opinion and it's used as evidence when it does. Which one's it gonna be CDC? Maybe individuals maintain their opinion but individuals on these boards have varying opinions on +/- and thereby use it differently on these boards. Such are the dangers of generalizing CDC into one entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEON.KNEE Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 11 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: When Jake was drafted he was expected to be a top-6 if not top-3 scorer. You don't burn 6th overall picks on a 3rd/4th line grinder. Show me one article or projection from a scout that said that Jake would be some all star offensive threat. He was projected to be a a big body with a quality shot, which he is. He has the raw skill to be an NHL'er and his development will determine how high his ceiling is. The armchair scouting taken to the ultimate extreme is not only embarrassing all of you as fans, but it is retarding Jake's development. Show some goddamn patience, especially you know it all nay sayers... If I had a question about surfing or obnoxious accents then I would value your opinion. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 29 minutes ago, SvenBae said: Maybe individuals maintain their opinion but individuals on these boards have varying opinions on +/- and thereby use it differently on these boards. Such are the dangers of generalizing CDC into one entity. I disagree. It tends to be disregarded when it doesn't flatter a Canuck (other than this year's scapegoat, poor old Mr. Higgins) and also tends to be used when it does. Only time I remember it being used negatively was when Edler was in last place in the league in +/-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenBae Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 1 minute ago, guntrix said: I disagree. It tends to be disregarded when it doesn't flatter a Canuck (other than this year's scapegoat, poor old Mr. Higgins) and also tends to be used when it does. Only time I remember it being used negatively was when Edler was in last place in the league in +/-. I see it used negatively to describe Horvat's play this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 9 hours ago, stawns said: He hasn't remotely been playing poorly. Quite the opposite, he's been filling the role required of him very well, and it's the same one I want to see him fill in Vancouver for the time being. He's planting himself at in front of the net and drawing multiple defenders to him, leaving his liberates with room to maneuver. He may not be getting points, but he is making an impact almost every shift. That's what I want to see from him. I can't comment on last game. I heard he had a good third. I did however watch the first 2 games. He was a turnover machine. I don't think that's what the coach wants from him. I know it'snot what WD wants. Hencehim being loaned to TC and ultimately being sent to Calgary after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: When Jake was drafted he was expected to be a top-6 if not top-3 scorer. You don't burn 6th overall picks on a 3rd/4th line grinder. Someone should make a collection of these gems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) 3 hours ago, WHL rocks said: Kid needs to go to the minors and ripen. He's not ready. Doesn't mean he's a bust, doesn't mean he's gonna suck, doesn't mean people who say this hate him, doesn't mean we are negative. It only means one thing... Kids not ready. He needs further development. And in the long run it's better for him and the team. In a season that there wasn't much to be excited about for Canucks fans, management needed some sort of story line to attract fans. That story line was having a bunch of young guys on the team. Unfortunately it seemed like they were going to give Jake a spot on the team no matter what. They needed to be able to trot out their prized prospect to the fans and say "here's the future". Problem is, you're right, he's not ready. For the sake of his development, I hope management admits they were wrong and do right by him. Otherwise I'm worried their future star is going to have his development stunted. Edited December 31, 2015 by DeNiro 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 16 hours ago, Warhippy said: See Stawns, I completely agree with you for all of those reasons. but at the same time I also wonder if sending him back to simply crush children like a rampaging Mongol in ancient China might not be a good thing for him. The best possible scenario for that would be benning somehow having him traded to a team like Kelowna, the Giants or a WHL contender. Having him stay up does little to nothing to harm his development as we could still slot him directly in to utica for his 2-3 seasons of development under Green (god I hope we can keep Green for a few more years) so either way I see it as a win(ish) win for this kid Go down, dominate hopefully. Stay up learn to slog it out on the bottom 6 with NHL caliber players while fans hopefully temper their expectations or at least endless negative nancy opinions about him. IMO Benning has to judge Virtanen's mental approach to the game and then decide where the best fit is. Throw the structure of the Hitmen into that equation as well. I agree with Stawns that having close oversight into Virtanen's training is critical. I might think differently if it was a different WHL team. Contrary to your thought it doesn't do much for Virtanen to dominate physically over junior players. He has to evolve his physical game against NHL players who are bigger, faster and smarter. Virtanen can come back from WJC, get another break for All-Stars and then the season ends in early April. The time will go fast and yet he continues to work in a NHL environment. Should be good for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 15 hours ago, NEON.KNEE said: Show me one article or projection from a scout that said that Jake would be some all star offensive threat. He was projected to be a a big body with a quality shot, which he is. He has the raw skill to be an NHL'er and his development will determine how high his ceiling is. The armchair scouting taken to the ultimate extreme is not only embarrassing all of you as fans, but it is retarding Jake's development. Show some goddamn patience, especially you know it all nay sayers... If I had a question about surfing or obnoxious accents then I would value your opinion. Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 16 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: 2-3 seasons in the AHL is exactly what Jake Virtanen needed. He's the type of player who has the physical makeup ready for the NHL, he just doesn't have the positioning in either the defensive or offensive zone and good AHL coaching would help with that. I think he should have started this season in junior, we call up Shin/Gaunce to fill that spot with the Canucks, then next season Jake plays an entire year in the AHL and THEN we give him a sniff at the NHL. For whatever reason, whether it be pressure from fans to play more kids, the fact he's a young BC boy and local fan fave or the fact that McCann deserved a roster spot and WD wanted to keep the kids together, it doesn't matter - Jake needs to develop properly and not be rushed. Hopefully by sending him back to the WHL after the WJC we'll end up with a Duclair/Draisaitl-like emergence next season. High probability because of his skill-set, where he was drafted and scouting reports. Obviously for the later round guys they have far lower a probability of even making it in the NHL let alone being a top player because of what they've done in junior/around guys their age. A lot can happen in between the draft and the end of a players career though, and I believe each of those events (for example, leading the WJC in scoring, scoring hat tricks in the NHL etc.) can change the probability of that player becoming a star. When Jake was drafted he was expected to be a top-6 if not top-3 scorer. You don't burn 6th overall picks on a 3rd/4th line grinder. Virtanen has been no worse than any player on the Canucks. He certainly doesn't look out of place or make critical errors. Of that's the case, why do you think he's "clearly not ready"? Because he's not ripping it up on offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 1 minute ago, stawns said: Virtanen has been no worse than any player on the Canucks. He certainly doesn't look out of place or make critical errors. Of that's the case, why do you think he's "clearly not ready"? Because he's not ripping it up on offense? In actual fact I think Virtanen is ahead of the game from a physical point of view. That puts him in good stead to evolve his game to NHL standards. At times this year he has shown flashes of an ability to move the puck with power. At no time should a 19 year olds progress be measured by his ppg stats. Canucks are a rebuilding team and that means young players have to play. The constant whining about players not being 'ready' is mind numbing. Fans should focus more on their evolving skills and that is over a season not game by game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwags Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Is Virtanen a bust? Absolutely not. Is he ready for the NHL? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 11 minutes ago, stawns said: He certainly doesn't look out of place or make critical errors. This is laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 40 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said: This is laughable He really doesn't look any more out of place or make more critical mistakes than a good chunk of the roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Punching Kempe on the back of the head, now that's dirty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Just now, Cowardrobertford said: Punching Kempe on the back of the head, now that's dirty Bertuzzi did that once, people want to build him a statue. What's your point? We need mean on this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Oh please... Then you definitely aren't watching close enough. Well actually I do. If anything he plays too conservatively most of the time. (Talking about the NHL btw) Edited December 31, 2015 by Wild Sean Monahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowardrobertford Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 3 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Bertuzzi did that once, people want to build him a statue. What's your point? We need mean on this team Kempe did nothing that Moore did, and I don't think Bertuzzi would puch someone in the back of the head for no reason even in a scrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Forsling scores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Just now, The 5th Line said: He plays extremely conservative, meaning he looks out of place..this is the NHL there is no time for conservative play, no time for floating around He's not hurting the team is what I was trying to say, and if that's your logic then about 2/3 of the forwards shouldn't be in the NHL (true for a few of them...). Say what you will about "fancy stats" but his are actually good, suggesting he's not actually hurting hurting the team. http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/jake-virtanen-deserves-more-credit-for-his-defence-1.2133389 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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