Gaudette Celly Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I still believe we should have drafted skill, considering what this team already has. Kassian - big, physical, cannot score this season. He's been a 5 year project and still isn't really paying off. Hansen - gritty forward, hands of stone. Can't score. Matthias - former 1st rounder, big and physical but again not skilled enough to score. Jensen - former 1st rounder, big body and a bit of skill but has 1 goal in the AHL so far this year and hasn't made a proper jump to the NHL in quite a few seasons yet. Horvat - former 1st rounder, big and physical but is still yet to score a professional hockey point. Gaunce - former 1st rounder, big and physical but hasn't cracked the NHL lineup or shown much goal scoring prowess in the AHL Conveniently left out Shinkaruk, McCann, Vey, and Cassels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 6th overall is a bit early? Thats where most had him pegged going and he is more capable playing in the west than Nylander or Ehlers. also we all know the steal in the draft is McCann They chose him going 6th overall cuz WE were picking.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) They chose him going 6th overall cuz WE were picking.... Reinhart is from Vancouver. He should have been ranked 6th too, I guess. FWIW, NHL Central Scouting had Virtanen 6th among NA skaters, TSN had him ranked 7th, ISS had him 10th, THN had him 11th, and he went 12th in a HF mock draft. Edited November 2, 2014 by Canucks1219 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Just a reminder that you can watch Virtanen play this Tuesday at 6 on Shaw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Conveniently left out Shinkaruk, McCann, Vey, and Cassels. If Shinkaruk, McCann, Vey and Cassels are considered our "elite talent" then we're in a lot of trouble. I have been looking forward to watching them all in Canucks jerseys but they are nowhere near as elite as some of the other team's prospects out there. Shinkaruk looks like he'll be a 20 goal scoring, 60 point forward at best. He's not in the same league as the Drouins or Huberdeau. McCann and Cassels may be tearing up the OHL right now but don't forget that they're a year older and are playing with kids. I will reserve all judgement of them until they play in a training camp against other NHL prospects and players because right now they're just beating up on kids. As for Vey, I wouldn't really even consider him a prospect. Benning snagged him in a good trade which had nothing to do with our drafting and development. Now, granted Virtanen is playing really well in the WHL right now with something like 5 points in 3 games, look at what Nylanders doing. 11 points in 8 games in MODO. That's a league with fully grown men, and for a player everyone thought would get muscled around, he's running rings around them scoring at over a point per game in a pretty big sample size. For some comparison, Henrik Sedin scored 5 points in 39 games with MODO in his first season, then 34 in 49, then 47 in 50 before jumping into the NHL as a 3rd liner. Nylander is a very special player and although we may have a pretty decent, not-as-risky forward in Virtanen, it boggles me as to why we passed up on a guy like Nylander. He's a Swedish center scoring at over a point per game against men. The Canucks don't need another big right winger - we've got plenty of them (Kassian, Jensen) for our top-6. What we don't have is a future centerman to replace Henrik Sedin and that would have been Nylander. Argue all you want, Nylander is going to be a top center in the NHL and Virtanen is going to be a top-6 winger at best. What do the Canucks really need in the long term? What is harder to obtain through trades and free agency? Franchise centermen rarely come around and we missed one big time with this pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Just a reminder that you can watch Virtanen play this Tuesday at 6 on Shaw. http://www.whl.ca/whl-tv-broadcast-schedules we should get another two as well when they finalize the schedule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Shinkaruk looks like he'll be a 20 goal scoring, 60 point forward at best. He's not in the same league as the Drouins or Huberdeau. Based on what exactly? If you can give me a logical explanation of where you got those numbers from, I'd love to hear it. I love when people just pull out random numbers for player predictions and act like it's a fact. No Shinkaruk isn't as skilled as Drouin or Huberdeau, but he also wasn't drafted third overall. That doesn't mean he's not a highly skilled player though. No one knows at what level he'll produce, not even the Nostradamus's of CDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Laoag Posted November 2, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 2, 2014 If Shinkaruk, McCann, Vey and Cassels are considered our "elite talent" then we're in a lot of trouble. I have been looking forward to watching them all in Canucks jerseys but they are nowhere near as elite as some of the other team's prospects out there. Shinkaruk looks like he'll be a 20 goal scoring, 60 point forward at best. He's not in the same league as the Drouins or Huberdeau. McCann and Cassels may be tearing up the OHL right now but don't forget that they're a year older and are playing with kids. I will reserve all judgement of them until they play in a training camp against other NHL prospects and players because right now they're just beating up on kids. As for Vey, I wouldn't really even consider him a prospect. Benning snagged him in a good trade which had nothing to do with our drafting and development. Now, granted Virtanen is playing really well in the WHL right now with something like 5 points in 3 games, look at what Nylanders doing. 11 points in 8 games in MODO. That's a league with fully grown men, and for a player everyone thought would get muscled around, he's running rings around them scoring at over a point per game in a pretty big sample size. For some comparison, Henrik Sedin scored 5 points in 39 games with MODO in his first season, then 34 in 49, then 47 in 50 before jumping into the NHL as a 3rd liner. Nylander is a very special player and although we may have a pretty decent, not-as-risky forward in Virtanen, it boggles me as to why we passed up on a guy like Nylander. He's a Swedish center scoring at over a point per game against men. The Canucks don't need another big right winger - we've got plenty of them (Kassian, Jensen) for our top-6. What we don't have is a future centerman to replace Henrik Sedin and that would have been Nylander. Argue all you want, Nylander is going to be a top center in the NHL and Virtanen is going to be a top-6 winger at best. What do the Canucks really need in the long term? What is harder to obtain through trades and free agency? Franchise centermen rarely come around and we missed one big time with this pick. Go cheer for the leafs then. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 If Shinkaruk, McCann, Vey and Cassels are considered our "elite talent" then we're in a lot of trouble. I have been looking forward to watching them all in Canucks jerseys but they are nowhere near as elite as some of the other team's prospects out there. Shinkaruk looks like he'll be a 20 goal scoring, 60 point forward at best. He's not in the same league as the Drouins or Huberdeau. McCann and Cassels may be tearing up the OHL right now but don't forget that they're a year older and are playing with kids. I will reserve all judgement of them until they play in a training camp against other NHL prospects and players because right now they're just beating up on kids. As for Vey, I wouldn't really even consider him a prospect. Benning snagged him in a good trade which had nothing to do with our drafting and development. Now, granted Virtanen is playing really well in the WHL right now with something like 5 points in 3 games, look at what Nylanders doing. 11 points in 8 games in MODO. That's a league with fully grown men, and for a player everyone thought would get muscled around, he's running rings around them scoring at over a point per game in a pretty big sample size. For some comparison, Henrik Sedin scored 5 points in 39 games with MODO in his first season, then 34 in 49, then 47 in 50 before jumping into the NHL as a 3rd liner. Nylander is a very special player and although we may have a pretty decent, not-as-risky forward in Virtanen, it boggles me as to why we passed up on a guy like Nylander. He's a Swedish center scoring at over a point per game against men. The Canucks don't need another big right winger - we've got plenty of them (Kassian, Jensen) for our top-6. What we don't have is a future centerman to replace Henrik Sedin and that would have been Nylander. Argue all you want, Nylander is going to be a top center in the NHL and Virtanen is going to be a top-6 winger at best. What do the Canucks really need in the long term? What is harder to obtain through trades and free agency? Franchise centermen rarely come around and we missed one big time with this pick. Virtanen is a natural left winger. You sure know a lot about the guy, eh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 If Shinkaruk, McCann, Vey and Cassels are considered our "elite talent" then we're in a lot of trouble. I have been looking forward to watching them all in Canucks jerseys but they are nowhere near as elite as some of the other team's prospects out there. Shinkaruk looks like he'll be a 20 goal scoring, 60 point forward at best. He's not in the same league as the Drouins or Huberdeau. McCann and Cassels may be tearing up the OHL right now but don't forget that they're a year older and are playing with kids. I will reserve all judgement of them until they play in a training camp against other NHL prospects and players because right now they're just beating up on kids. As for Vey, I wouldn't really even consider him a prospect. Benning snagged him in a good trade which had nothing to do with our drafting and development. Now, granted Virtanen is playing really well in the WHL right now with something like 5 points in 3 games, look at what Nylanders doing. 11 points in 8 games in MODO. That's a league with fully grown men, and for a player everyone thought would get muscled around, he's running rings around them scoring at over a point per game in a pretty big sample size. For some comparison, Henrik Sedin scored 5 points in 39 games with MODO in his first season, then 34 in 49, then 47 in 50 before jumping into the NHL as a 3rd liner. Nylander is a very special player and although we may have a pretty decent, not-as-risky forward in Virtanen, it boggles me as to why we passed up on a guy like Nylander. He's a Swedish center scoring at over a point per game against men. The Canucks don't need another big right winger - we've got plenty of them (Kassian, Jensen) for our top-6. What we don't have is a future centerman to replace Henrik Sedin and that would have been Nylander. Argue all you want, Nylander is going to be a top center in the NHL and Virtanen is going to be a top-6 winger at best. What do the Canucks really need in the long term? What is harder to obtain through trades and free agency? Franchise centermen rarely come around and we missed one big time with this pick. Right. So you have a better understanding of how to build a team than the seasoned professionals who are invested in making these picks. I am pretty sure that Benning has a bit more experience and a much greater vantage point, than you sitting behind your computer screen all the way in the land Downunda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken kaniff Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Nylander-Backstrom Virtanen-Carter Who has a cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) Nylander-Backstrom Virtanen-Carter Who has a cup? probably all of them, not sure if Nylander needs one Edited November 2, 2014 by Amish Rake Fighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 probably all of them, not sure if Nylander needs one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 If Shinkaruk, McCann, Vey and Cassels are considered our "elite talent" then we're in a lot of trouble. Completely irrelevant and strawman. Your entire thesis is that the Canuck prospects are "the same" and aren't "skilled", yet you cherry-pick your examples and ignore the ones that render it false. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Right. So you have a better understanding of how to build a team than the seasoned professionals who are invested in making these picks. I am pretty sure that Benning has a bit more experience and a much greater vantage point, than you sitting behind your computer screen all the way in the land Downunda. What's the point of having a public forum at all then? All I'm saying is that if I were building a hockey team for the future, with an ageing star centerman, I'd want to replace him if I got that opportunity and they don't come much better than Nylander. The kid is leading the Swedish Elite League in points-per-game right now. That's absurd considering the talent and age group he's up against. He may have defensive issues, but he's a +3 on a MODO team that is -10, and besides, defence can be taught. You can't teach his skill. Personally I'd rather have this in the future: Shinkaruk - Nylander - Kassian Jensen - Horvat - Vey ...than this: Virtanen - Vey - Kassian Jensen - Horvat - Shinkaruk Nylander would have given us considerable depth down the middle but more importantly, an elite talent at center. If the last dozen Cup champs have taught us anything, it's that you build a Cup winning team and franchise around a good centerman and depth at center, not a star winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 What's the point of having a public forum at all then? All I'm saying is that if I were building a hockey team for the future, with an ageing star centerman, I'd want to replace him if I got that opportunity and they don't come much better than Nylander. The kid is leading the Swedish Elite League in points-per-game right now. That's absurd considering the talent and age group he's up against. He may have defensive issues, but he's a +3 on a MODO team that is -10, and besides, defence can be taught. You can't teach his skill. Personally I'd rather have this in the future: Shinkaruk - Nylander - Kassian Jensen - Horvat - Vey ...than this: Virtanen - Vey - Kassian Jensen - Horvat - Shinkaruk Nylander would have given us considerable depth down the middle but more importantly, an elite talent at center. If the last dozen Cup champs have taught us anything, it's that you build a Cup winning team and franchise around a good centerman and depth at center, not a star winger. He's listed as a C/RW in most places and the SHL simply lists him as a "forward". I was under the impression that he plays mostly as a winger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Nylander is a very special player... Argue all you want, Nylander is going to be a top center in the NHL And that's why seven teams passed on him, four of them taking D and wingers instead? Have you ever watched a single game Nylander has played? As for Vey, I wouldn't really even consider him a prospect. Benning snagged him in a good trade which had nothing to do with our drafting and development. Then why does he not apply when you included Kassian, Hansen, and Matthias in your "analysis" of what we have "too much of already"? So now we're down to only Jensen, Horvat, and Gaunce being "stupidly one-dimensional" yet there are at least that many other than are "skilled" in the prospect pool. I think you need to let this go -- hole keeps getting deeper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 He's listed as a C/RW in most places and the SHL simply lists him as a "forward". I was under the impression that he plays mostly as a winger. Hockeydb has him as one of MODO's 4 centers so I'm going with that. Even so, the fact that he's versatile and can play center or wing is another huge advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) What's the point of having a public forum at all then? All I'm saying is that if I were building a hockey team for the future, with an ageing star centerman, I'd want to replace him if I got that opportunity and they don't come much better than Nylander. The kid is leading the Swedish Elite League in points-per-game right now. That's absurd considering the talent and age group he's up against. He may have defensive issues, but he's a +3 on a MODO team that is -10, and besides, defence can be taught. You can't teach his skill. Personally I'd rather have this in the future: Shinkaruk - Nylander - Kassian Jensen - Horvat - Vey ...than this: Virtanen - Vey - Kassian Jensen - Horvat - Shinkaruk Nylander would have given us considerable depth down the middle but more importantly, an elite talent at center. If the last dozen Cup champs have taught us anything, it's that you build a Cup winning team and franchise around a good centerman and depth at center, not a star winger. Depth at center? Horvat Mccaan Cassels Guance These guys are much more like the type of centers that any of the cup winners in the last 5-6 years have throughout their line up. Every single one of these teams have 200' centers throughout their line up from top to bottom. Who is the last offensive minded first line center to win a cup? Maybe Crosby, but guess what? He is Sidney Crosby. The trend does not support your opinion. When you have the depth that we have, in our prospect pool, at center it make sense to begin drafting other positions. Even Crosby has been completely neutralized in the playoffs by these type of centers that been winning cups lately. How do you think Nylander will manage? Edited November 2, 2014 by Canorth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 And that's why seven teams passed on him, four of them taking D and wingers instead? Have you ever watched a single game Nylander has played? Then why does he not apply when you included Kassian, Hansen, and Matthias in your "analysis" of what we have "too much of already"? So now we're down to only Jensen, Horvat, and Gaunce being "stupidly one-dimensional" yet there are at least that many other than are "skilled" in the prospect pool. I think you need to let this go -- hole keeps getting deeper. Firstly, the top-5 were pretty set in last year's draft. Nylander is not better than any one of them, but more importantly, I'm talking about the Canucks needs, not what the Florida Panthers need so don't try and twist the argument and stay on track. If the Canucks took the first pick, Benning probably would have drafted Reinhart because that's what we need more quite frankly. The Canucks took Virtanen IMO mainly because he's young, has time to develop some more and is Canadian which is a silly mistake we're getting into. Sure it's nice to draft players who want to play here, but there's a lot more talent elsewhere. We don't want to end up becoming the Habs who just draft Montreal natives and don't really get anywhere with them. It's a bad trap to fall into. When you look at the Canucks and Habs, it's not the Vancouver or Montreal natives getting the teams success, it's the Europeans for the most part. And if you want to talk about future on the whole, here's a cold hard fact for you. We do not have a center to replace Henrik Sedin. It'd be pretty optimistic and naive to expect a Cole Cassels or McCann to replace his point per game production. No one in our organization has that capability. Nylander is scoring at over a point per game in the SEL as an 18 year old kid. He's honestly the best chance we had at replacing Henrik. Instead, we're going to have to hope that Vey, McCann or Cassels can end up becoming a star which is MUCH less likely. Instead we draft another big winger, whoopee. 20-30 (even 40) goal scoring wingers are all over the place and can be found on the UFA market with ease. 80-90 point centers aren't. You get those sorts of players through drafting or huge trades, and teams rarely give up a franchise centerman. Guess we'll have to wait until the 2015 to find one, where we'll likely have a middle-of-the-pack pick. Big mistake by management but it comes because they wanted to play it safe and go for a Canadian kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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